GM crop breakthrough

[rambler]

A company in California says it has a breakthrough in a process that allows plant traits to be changed without putting foregn genes into the plant.

I suppose it will still be considered 'un-natural' but perhaps is less so to some, and also would offer competition to current processes, at least allowing options to farmers.

--->Paul

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15737333/

"A San Diego company will on Thursday unveil a technology that can deliver the benefits of genetic modification without inserting foreign genes into a crop in move that could transform the multibillion dollar agricultural biotech market."

[seedspreader]

I trust companies and goverment explicitly to take care of me and my interest. God bless higher profitablity and security.

[cough, cough, cough]

[MELOC]

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

I trust companies and goverment explicitly to take care of me and my interest. God bless higher profitablity and security.

[cough, cough, cough]

you really shouldn't be reading this sort of thing if you are still ill.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

I trust companies and goverment explicitly to take care of me and my interest. God bless higher profitablity and security.

[cough, cough, cough]

I have the same sore throat you do.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by MELOC

you really shouldn't be reading this sort of thing if you are still ill.

I WAS feeling better before I read it...

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

I WAS feeling better before I read it...

I was ok until I read it. Then I got your sore throat, as well as a headache and a sick stomach.

[jnap31]

want to read it but i am at a remote site for two weeks no phone and takes the computer 10 min to load a page so will read later thanks for posting it rambler.

[suburbanite]

I haven't read it but my guess is they're looking either at DNA methylation (which gets stripped off in the process of forming pollen and seeds), or RNAi (which I don't think is ready for 'prime time'). These are methods of altering how genes are expressed without changing the genes themselves.

[haypoint]

Genetically Modified sounds scary. We should protest against all new plant developments. If we can put a stop to modifications using foreign genes, then we can put a stop to this new breakthrough. Once we’ve put a stop to that we can attack the other forms of genetic modification, known as“hybridization” . Then on to the elimination of “Factory Farms”. Perhaps we can straighten up the country by limiting all farms to 40 acres and require self collected seeds only. Then we’ll have a more even playing field with the rest of the third world countries.
Please, instead of the knee jerk reaction to a process that you know nothing about, but sounds scary, read some facts on it, learn what GM really is and how its done. If you want Homesteading to be a family oriented sustainable lifestyle, you’ll have to be able to meld old fashion work ethics with modern advancements. Otherwise, you’re a corny reenactment of days long since past. I choose profitable model over old time museum any day.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Please, instead of the knee jerk reaction to a process that you know nothing about, but sounds scary, read some facts on it, learn what GM really is and how its done.

I know what it is and how it's done. That's why it scares the heck out of me.

It's not just ONE gene inserted. They have to insert the gene they want, another gene to turn that one on, and so on, until they have made multiple alterations of the dna of a single plant line. The structure of proteins are chemically changed. These altered proteins are processed differently by the body than natural proteins.

Then you have the problem of destabilization. The altered genetic structure begins fragmenting and rearranging in a couple of generations all on it's own. Parent lines for seed production are kept "clean", but escaped seeds/pollen are not, and begin contaminating the food supply as well as related wild plants with unstable genetic material.

We are poisoning the planet in the name of technology.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Genetically Modified sounds scary. We should protest against all new plant developments. If we can put a stop to modifications using foreign genes, then we can put a stop to this new breakthrough. Once we’ve put a stop to that we can attack the other forms of genetic modification, known as“hybridization” . Then on to the elimination of “Factory Farms”. Perhaps we can straighten up the country by limiting all farms to 40 acres and require self collected seeds only. Then we’ll have a more even playing field with the rest of the third world countries.
Please, instead of the knee jerk reaction to a process that you know nothing about, but sounds scary, read some facts on it, learn what GM really is and how its done. If you want Homesteading to be a family oriented sustainable lifestyle, you’ll have to be able to meld old fashion work ethics with modern advancements. Otherwise, you’re a corny reenactment of days long since past. I choose profitable model over old time museum any day.

Ah, the "Third World Country" card... came out earlier than normal.

Except that many of those silly "Third World Countries"... are fighting to keep the GM crops out of their fields.

Before you extoll the virtues of GM foods to us all, perhaps you can give us... well what WILL you give us??? Your word? Your promise... an IOU that YOU and all GM supporters will give the world that ALL GM foods and products will ONLY be beneficial to us and not detrimental.

See there is no code of ethics for those manipulating all this GM material, and unfortunately too many folks agree completely with you... that profits are all that really matters... not good science, not sustainability... just profit.

Profit don't care about my children and grandchildren though.

People used to be called stewards of the land, now they are called CEO's.

[haypoint]

Many of the EU countries won't allow GM grains as a form of legal protectionism. The US has been able to limit cane sugar from Central America as a protection to the beet sugar producers in the US. We limit softwood lumber from Canada, protecting the US lumber industry. Wisconsin won't take Michigan Upper Peninsula cattle because there are a few cows in the Lower Penninsula with TB. People all over set barriors to protect their own markets.
Is hybred corn detrimental to us? Can you prove it? I can provide proof that millions of people that ate hybred ( a friendlier way to discribe early genetically modified foods) corn have died. Some were nearly 100, but they died. The point is, there is no scientific basis for your fears against GM foods. Are there any organic farms that will give me proof that their's is a safer product? I choose to be organic because of "feelings", but i can't prove it. Same as GM, people are getting their "feelings" in the way of facts.
Profit might not care about your children and grandchildren, but a lack of profit will starve them out or drive them from the land.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Many of the EU countries won't allow GM grains as a form of legal protectionism. The US has been able to limit cane sugar from Central America as a protection to the beet sugar producers in the US. We limit softwood lumber from Canada, protecting the US lumber industry. Wisconsin won't take Michigan Upper Peninsula cattle because there are a few cows in the Lower Penninsula with TB. People all over set barriors to protect their own markets.
Is hybred corn detrimental to us? Can you prove it? I can provide proof that millions of people that ate hybred ( a friendlier way to discribe early genetically modified foods) corn have died. Some were nearly 100, but they died. The point is, there is no scientific basis for your fears against GM foods. Are there any organic farms that will give me proof that their's is a safer product? I choose to be organic because of "feelings", but i can't prove it. Same as GM, people are getting their "feelings" in the way of facts.
Profit might not care about your children and grandchildren, but a lack of profit will starve them out or drive them from the land.

Well NOW you are showing your lack of knowledge on the subject. Hybridization results from selective breeding, and that is all. GMication includes but is not limited to addition of foreign genetic material to manipulate the organism to interact with nature in a way that would never be possible naturally. Many times crossing genetics of different species and even kingdoms.

I liken the profiteering mindset to a man who is looking for an investment and finds a long time local orchard that has been carefully maintained, groomed, planned and harvested for decades. Upon the first harvest, he strips the trees of all their fruit and sells them, but that isn't enough of a return for him, so then he finds out the market prices for cherry veener, apple wood, etc. and chops down the trees to make the extra profit he seeks. It may work for one season, but what's he going to do next season?

No one here is advocating that everyone own a 40 acre farm and organically produce their food. But to forge ahead in GM, just because we CAN doesn't mean we should.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresource...i/gmfood.shtml

Here's a gov't website (see the little .gov?) EVEN the US govt. which is for GM products has enough sense to realize there are dangers...

Controversies

* Safety
o Potential human health impact: allergens, transfer of antibiotic resistance markers, unknown effects Potential environmental impact: unintended transfer of transgenes through cross-pollination, unknown effects on other organisms (e.g., soil microbes), and loss of flora and fauna biodiversity
* Access and Intellectual Property
o Domination of world food production by a few companies
o Increasing dependence on Industralized nations by developing countries
o Biopiracy—foreign exploitation of natural resources
* Ethics
o Violation of natural organisms' intrinsic values
o Tampering with nature by mixing genes among species
o Objections to consuming animal genes in plants and vice versa
o Stress for animal
* Labeling
o Not mandatory in some countries (e.g., United States)
o Mixing GM crops with non-GM confounds labeling attempts
* Society
o New advances may be skewed to interests of rich countries

I heard it was going to be REAL PROFITABLE to introduce this new little asian ladybug into the area to eat aphids...

How profitable was that for you Rambler???

And haypoint, here is another site about GM that might interest you: http://www.cqs.com/50harm.htm

An interesting quote:

Hybridizations does work harmoniously with superficial aspects of nature without fully disturbing the essential life force at the center of each cell. Also with hybridizations, conscious life makes primary genetic decisions. We can understand this with an analogy. There is an immense difference between being a matchmaker and inviting two people for dinner - encouraging them to go on a date - as opposed to forcing the union or even a date rape.

With biotechnology, roses are no longer crossed with just roses. They can be mated with pigs, tomatoes with oak trees, fish with asses, butterflies with worms, orchids with snakes. The technology that makes this possible is called biolistics - a gunshot-like violence that pierces the nuclear membrane of cells. This essentially violates the consciousness that forms and guides living nature. Some also compare it to the violent crossing of territorial borders of countries, subduing inhabitants against their will.

A rather colorful analogy of GM vs. Hyrbridization.

I would bet most everybody here plants hybrids in their gardens.

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I haven't read it but my guess is they're looking either at DNA methylation (which gets stripped off in the process of forming pollen and seeds), or RNAi (which I don't think is ready for 'prime time'). These are methods of altering how genes are expressed without changing the genes themselves.

From the article "The RTDS technology uses the plant's own genetic machinery to change its DNA, through a process known as site-directed mutagenesis."

Originally Posted by haypoint

Is hybred corn detrimental to us? Can you prove it? I can provide proof that millions of people that ate hybred ( a friendlier way to discribe early genetically modified foods) corn have died. Some were nearly 100, but they died. The point is, there is no scientific basis for your fears against GM foods. Are there any organic farms that will give me proof that their's is a safer product? I choose to be organic because of "feelings", but i can't prove it. Same as GM, people are getting their "feelings" in the way of facts.

Ordinary hybridizing is nothing like genetically modifying organisms as we have it now. This is simply confusing the issue.

.....Alan.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Is hybred corn detrimental to us? Can you prove it? I can provide proof that millions of people that ate hybred ( a friendlier way to discribe early genetically modified foods) corn have died. Some were nearly 100, but they died. The point is, there is no scientific basis for your fears against GM foods. Are there any organic farms that will give me proof that their's is a safer product? I choose to be organic because of "feelings", but i can't prove it. Same as GM, people are getting their "feelings" in the way of facts.

Be careful! Your ignorance is showing!

[rambler]

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

I heard it was going to be REAL PROFITABLE to introduce this new little asian ladybug into the area to eat aphids...

How profitable was that for you Rambler???

Huh? I only presented the info, as it likely will be in the news today, & seems to be a popular topic on this site. I worked very hard to be nuteral about it. Thought some would be interested that new developments are out there. Why are you lashing out at me in this way? After all I'm the farmer who doesn't use GMO seeds at this time. Sheez.

The beetles are an introduced species, and have nothing to do with either GMO or hybred technologies.

Very confusing, why talk about beetles here?

If you must know, they are a non-issue in my profit picture, neither helping nor hurting. Personally they are a big annoyance.

Whatever that has to do with this topic.......

--->Paul

[Beaners]

Hmmmm. I've made GM bacteria before. It was a college bio lab, and we put glowing jellyfish dna into bacteria. Spooky stuff.

A hybrid is bred. Genetically modified is where you break the dna, insert new dna, and seal the dna back up. Not something I really want to mess with. And maybe not because it will up and choke me to death in my sleep, but because it's messing around with something you shouldn't mess around with.

What about all the plants that are being created that are terminal (what's the word that goes here????) Like plants that can't go to seed at all and you have to get new grafts or whatever? Someone help me here...I know that they're a threat and can't find the right words to explain.

Kayleigh

[jd4020]

It's one thing to select animals for qualities you would like to see in their offspring by breeding or cross pollinating plants for a "better" product, but when one goes in and changes the dna/genetics, that is a whole different game. One I feel is better left up to God.
Kayleigh, I think the terminal plants are what companies like monsanto are creating. You have to sign papers stating you won't save their seeds, the thought is you aren't just buying some seeds but you are paying for their technology etc. Some beans have been "technology" enhanced so they will tolerate being sprayed with roundup. And corn has been genetically altered so that worms will find them not very tasty, so there is less worm damage. You also have to plant regular plants, so many rows around the edges of your fields. That's also in the agreement you sign. Whereas in the past you could try to pollinate your own plantings to see if you could come up with something different or maybe better, with this seed from monsanto, you can't. So much for american free enterprise. Even if you plant other varieties, if they get cross pollinated with the gm stuff, IF "they" somehow found out, you could potentially be in trouble. And that's the thing too, eventually, seems to me it will all have a little gm mixed in with it just by being carried on the wind.
I don't know what the answer is. I loathe the thought that one company can monopolize the industry. I would still like to be able to save seed for the next year. It's sad that chemicals have been used to excess and now we have super bugs that plants need to be altered, but what happens when the bugs begin to resist the super plants. I can better rationalize using gm corn if it's only going to be used for burning to heat homes or used for ethenol, but I really don't want to eat it.
Does anyone know if "they" have messed with indian corn? I've been growing it in my garden to use for my animals and I'd really like to make some blue or red cornbread with it.

[lynpea]

Originally Posted by Beaners

Hmmmm. I've made GM bacteria before. It was a college bio lab, and we put glowing jellyfish dna into bacteria. Spooky stuff.

A hybrid is bred. Genetically modified is where you break the dna, insert new dna, and seal the dna back up. Not something I really want to mess with. And maybe not because it will up and choke me to death in my sleep, but because it's messing around with something you shouldn't mess around with.

What about all the plants that are being created that are terminal (what's the word that goes here????) Like plants that can't go to seed at all and you have to get new grafts or whatever? Someone help me here...I know that they're a threat and can't find the right words to explain

Kayleigh

It's called the *Terminator Gene* and the seeds are sterile. The potential danger in this is the unavoidable pollen drift. It could mean the extinction of other related plants. BTW our own US Government holds the patent on this along with Monsanto..... Get your hands on the Documentory (Net Flix has it) Future of Our Food and the book Seeds of Deception. Both very informative..........

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by rambler

Huh? I only presented the info, as it likely will be in the news today, & seems to be a popular topic on this site. I worked very hard to be nuteral about it. Thought some would be interested that new developments are out there. Why are you lashing out at me in this way? After all I'm the farmer who doesn't use GMO seeds at this time. Sheez.

The beetles are an introduced species, and have nothing to do with either GMO or hybred technologies.

Very confusing, why talk about beetles here?

If you must know, they are a non-issue in my profit picture, neither helping nor hurting. Personally they are a big annoyance.

Whatever that has to do with this topic.......

--->Paul

I don't think it's that confusing...

Short sightedness of organisms aimed at profit by so-called science. (If I have to spell it out.) My only reason for saying "rambler" was I remember you griping about those ladybugs and how they didn't cut down on the aphids a bit.