Burlington, VT & Portland, ME Opinions??

[hisenthlay]

Does anyone have any opinions on the quality of life in either of these places? Availability/cost of land? Commuting times? Social atmosphere? Attractions? Negatives?

My fiance got invitations to interview there (and here at home, and a couple other places), and we're leaning towards staying here in PA if possible, but we're also kind of excited about the thought of living/working in Burlington or Portland. That's were the programs are that we would move for, so we can't consider anywhere else in VT or ME.

Ideally, we'd live less than 45 minutes from "downtown", have a decent house on 5-50 acres (depending on what was available), and a nice garden, fruit trees, 5-10 laying hens/ducks, 5-10 goats (dairy and pet/pack animal), 2-4 horses, and a mess of dogs. Nothing fancy, and the horses can wait if we don't have enough land for everyone. We like 4 seasons, we like snow, we like mountains, but week after week of subzero temps are not ideal. 20-40 degrees (normally--some colder snaps are fine) in winter is about perfect. It sounds intriguing to be up there, but we like it here, so we're not going to move there unless it's just too good to pass up. Anything we should know?

Thanks!

[GK Chickenhawk]

I've spent time in both locales. Burlington is too cold for you but has more rural land close by. Portland is "close" to Boston so you know what that means. I'd look on the north side of Portland. Of course, I haven't been there in four years.

[Deb862]

Burlington, VT is a really nice area. We actually looked at moving up that way but things are WAYYYY expensive. We are from NY so are used to things being expensive but OMG!! We were completely floored at how expensive everything from rent to food, etc. costs up there. Beautiful city though.

[hisenthlay]

Expensive, eh? Shoot. I was hoping it would be better than around here. I know Boston prices are crazy (fiance's sister lives there, and wow ).

Maybe I stated the cold thing wrong--when its 15 degrees outside, I want most people to be saying, it's getting kinda chilly out there, huh? And when it's 0-10 degrees, I want people to be saying, I sure can't wait until this cold snap is over. But at 40 degrees, people should say, we're really having a mild winter this year. LOL. Get it? I lived in Chicago for 3 years, and the whole month of single digit temps with windchill in the negatives was... unpleasant for me. Not impossible, just... sub-ideal. I don't think you can get a real feel for the place just by looking at the weather stats--theoretically, Chicago is only few degrees colder than here, but it FELT much more severe than here.

I've never been to Burlington, but I think I'm going to go up with him to the interview next month, maybe make a weekend of it, and look around. I was in Portland for about 2 hours once in the summer (on the way to a friend's wedding), so I really don't have any idea about there, either. While I was in Portland for those 2 hours, though, it was about 45 degrees and pouring rain, then 75 degrees and sunny. Wacky weather.

[ET1 SS]

I live a bit further North. I find that EVERYONE seems to complain about low income and taxes here, but the numbers and statistics that are being thrown around are from Portland. It seems to me a big city. And I think / feel that all big cities have their problems. [pollution, taxes, traffic, crime, etc].

We have owned various properties in other states, and we not been able to live this cheaply for a long time.

Locals here talk about the attitude of Northern Mass, which seems to extend North into Maine a ways. It includes: a lot of police, traffic stops, drug busts, taxes and social programs; and appears to fade out somewhere as you get past Augusta.

[via media]

I can't really speak for the rest of the state but Burlington is EXPENSIVE. Really expensive. Super nice, though. Regarding the cold thing, a couple years ago, they set a record for the most number of days in a row where the temperature didn't get above 0F. (F, not C!!!) I think it was something like 19 days in a row if memory serves.

/VM

[Beltane]

Both areas are wonderful. I would be the first to say northern Maine before Vermont, but I do love Vermont as well.

Perhaps sullen or mpillow can comment?

[ET1 SS]

Yeah it is nice down south.

[Chas in Me]

Portland is a small city with an identity. It's not just a city, but a coastal city that likes to cater to young folks on their way up. I can't tell you much about housing and land because I live about 260 miles north of it.
It's the place we go when we want what cities have to offer.
Good luck
Chas

[Shygal]

5-50 acres around Burlington, you are looking at a minimum of 300k for the 5 acre place. Dont ask about the 50. There are houses down here near NOTHING, going for half a million dollars, with a few acres of land.

Taxes, be ready for 5k a year, plus....if that is the size of land you want.

And it is COLD here. And snowy. Very snowy. Very long winter.

Burlington has a pretty good sized drug problem, unfortunately.

[Cindy in NY]

We've visited Burlington several times and not sure if it's been mentioned but it is a college town. Very pretty city! Can't tell you anything about taxes or land prices but if you go ... be sure to visit Gardener's Supply (they have a main store there and an outlet) and Lake Champlain Chocolates - YUM!

[ET1 SS]

I will just stick to my $1,000/acre forest land on a river [$300/acre for forest with no riverfrontage], and $1/acre taxes.

LOL

[mainer]

to get an idea of houses,go to www.realtor.com I think you can get a good feel for housing that way.
I lived about 20 miles west of Portland in a small town. 3 1/2 acres was $1200.00 in taxes.sold it for $125k.have heard the "average" price of houses in Portland & Saco(just south of Portland )is 185k Too rich for me!!
There are nice little towns all around Portland where you can still find some land & be close to the city for work & fun.Brunswick & Freeport(home of LLBean) are just 1 hour away.
Good luck with your hunt. Be sure to keep us informed on your choice.

[MaineFarmMom]

Portland. Not just because I'm a Mainer, but because Portland is a cool place. I like Burlington but it's very expensive. If you happen to be a foodie, Maine's the place to be.

[mpillow]

Portland is a small "big city". Lots to offer culturally. Compared to other big cities its clean, employment is good, being near the ocean its not quite as cold as inland Maine. But it is in fact the biggest area of crime because its got the most people It just rated quite high on a places to live survey....
Housing can be expensive...a relative term to us Mainers

West Gardiner is just off the interstate and quite a farm type area about 45 min North of Portland. My sister has a horse farm there, my MIL also lives there.Also easy commute to Augusta and Lewiston and Bath Brunswick and reasonable property taxes.
Sidney is also a good place to find land about 20 min North of West Gardiner on the interstate.

You may also want to look into Bangor(large city)....its further North, jobs are good and farmland is cheaper...it will be colder but UMO is near there and so oppurtunities abound.

Here's a good site for seeing local real estate. I've heard that VT is incredibly expensive....my husband hunts with a few folks from there who would love to live here instead...

http://www.prudentialnortheastproperties.com/

[minnikin1]

In Burlington, when it's 40 degrees, people don't say, "mild winter." They say "summer". Truly it is very very cold there.

Of course, if you don't like the heat, its great! 90 degrees is a rare thing.

If you wanted to consider it, you could commute from the NY side of the lake. (MUCH cheaper living). It would add time to your work day, but it doesn't really compare to a highway commute - the ferry ride is very enjoyable.

We lived on the NY side and loved it there. Bit of advice if you go:
choose your home carefully - having good southern exposure, lots of sunlight, and a sunroom or greenhouse could make the difference between loving it and hating it.

[hisenthlay]

Thanks for all the great information. I have been looking on realtor.com, and I thought I saw a couple of promising listings for both locations, but I know sometimes that can be deceiving--like, you can't tell if you're not from there whether that location is bad because you have to travel the most congested roads into town, or it's in a flood plain, or near a nuclear plant or factory slaughterhouse or something. I'm going to make a note of the promising listings, and maybe drive by there when we're up there for the interview. I guess Portland sounds like it might be a better fit, but my fiance just got so excited about Burlington for some reason (he's never been there, either)--I think it's the skiing, maybe. Well, we'll see, since we'll be visiting in winter--that should keep us from having the rose-colored glasses on toooo much.

I'll check into West Gardiner, specifically, too. I love specific town recommendations like that--really makes the long-distance real estate research easier.

Thanks!

[spectre]

A couple of warnings from someone who lives in Vermont.

1) Make sure you have a concrete understanding of the cost of living here. Things like taxes, snow removal, food cost, housing, heating costs, ...etc. Many people come here with an unrealistic idea of what it costs. I have had people that have come to work where I do that came from places like San Francisco and Boston that were blown away by how much it costs to live here. Depending upon the area you can see land prices in the 30K per acre range. Some places are less, but check out where they are and what they are like. Be very carefull of septic if undeveloped.

2) Be prepared for cold and snow. Burlington does not get as much snow as parts of Vermont, but the cold winds off of the lake will make you wish you were somewhere else. And if you get outside of Burlington you can see some serious snow. Cold for the area can reach sub zero temperatures for long enough that you will wish you would see zero. Also, road crews try to keep up with the precipitation, but there are times when you will have to deal with roads that are really bad. About ten years ago they had an ice storm in the area that shut the entire area down for over 2 weeks.

3) Be prepared for traffic around Burlington. For those of you that live elsewhere the traffic may seem minimal, but Burlington and the surrounding area is not designed to handle the traffic it sees on a daily basis. There are areas, especially those in South Burlington, that will see bumper to bumper traffic as people try to get in and out of Burlington. I have driven in alot of places in the US and I would put some of the areas around Burlington in the same classification as Boston. Too many cars on roads not designed to accomidate them with no area for expansion. If you come up drive thru South Burlington to Shelburne during rush hour to get a feel for what it can be like (then add 50% to the congestion for the holidays - thanksgiving thru Christmas).

4) Burlington is not in the center of the Ski areas. Since you mentioned Skiing you will need to know that getting to any of the big ski areas will require driving. Okemo, Stratton, Stowe, kilington, Pico, Bromley, and Ascutney are all quite a ways from Burlington. Depending upon road conditions probably a couple of hours to each of them.

5) Be aware of services. Depending upon where you come from you may be used to local PD, paid Fire Department, town trash removal, and the like. In Vermont these usually do not exist. You pay town taxes, but usually what you get for your money is having the roads maintained. In most places there are no local PD and you will rely on the state Police and your fire department will be volunteer. The rest of your tax dollars go to fund education.

6) Growing season is tricky. Depending upon where you live in VT you can see serious shifts in growing seasons due to changes in temperature and weather in as little as 15 miles difference.

7) Be aware of zoning and other restrictions in the town you are buying in. Depending upon the area zoning can be very strict and many times can limit your usage of your property. Be warned that in some towns they will enforce these and there have been cases where liberal interpritation has forced to stop activities that they thought were withion there rights. Vermont has become one of the areas of choice for people who lived in the city and made $$ and then moved to the country. The problem is that they want to stop others from moving here and using there land in a manner that does not conform with there vision.

8) Be aware of employment opportunities. Jobs that pay a livable wage are hard to come by. Don't move here expecting to find a job unless you like making $8 an hour (which is not a livable wage here). Even with a college degree you will have to search to find an employer, and I can personally attest that it took me 8 years to find the job that I am in. During the wait I lived at home and did nothing other than pay student loans.

Vermont is a beautifull place to live, but be sure you are prepared for what you are getting into before you decide to move here.

Hope this helps.

Scott

[ldc]

My dad used to have a camp on the NYork side of L. Champlain. The growing season was so short, we grew a lot of lettuce and radishes! The low gray cloud cover from the Great Lakes reaches down as far as Burlington, maybe 7 months. of the year. It was a harsh environment for us! B. was a great young people's city though.

[hisenthlay]

Scott, that's a lot of good detail--thanks. The stuff about traffic and cost of living/services especially hits home. And ldc, I was concerned about the growing season, too. I think I'm going to have to show all of this to my guy and see if it takes the edge off his enthusiasm for Burlington. Sounds like maybe a nice place to visit, but a tough place to live.

These two places were about the cheapest I found near Burlington with more than 10 acres. We could swing it with the sale of our house here, since we've seen a lot of appreciation in our neighborhood since we bought. Any comments on these, from those familiar with the area? Essex, 10 acres Colchester, 25 acres