Bull Thistle...Project

[ONThorsegirl]

Hello Everyone,

Well here at school, Kemptville College Agriculture College in Ontario Canada. I have to do a project on 2 weeds that are problems on our farm, one of my Weeds of choice is the Bull Thistle, we have a big problem with it here in our Pastures.

I was posting here to see if I could have any knowledge any of you may have as being farmers, specialists, or homesteaders in general who have possibly came into contact with this weed, and if so any advice about it, how you killed it, anything at all, has it effected your livestock or anything really!!!

Also if I have your permission could I use what you say as a reference for my project. I have to write a pretty lengthy report and any usable information would be great for me to include.

Thank you, Melissa

[ceresone]

I've used roundup--and a torch-neither does a control job.i've seen fields covered, luckily not mine--but its very persistant.

[Jennifer L.]

I've used Roundup as well, working with a backpack and walking the field spot spraying. I've also walked the fields with a shovel, destroying plants just as they start to head out. I never really get rid of it all, and it's beaten me for the last few years. Getting into the pasture with a mower when it starts to head out would probably get better coverage, but then you have to get the two plants in the hedgerow, as well. I always seem to miss a few, and I know consistency is the only thing that will beat it. I hate this plant.

You can certainly use me as a source if you like.
Good luck with the project.

Jennifer

[fordson major]

well we had been staying on top till this year, mowing before setting seed had helped and a machete or scythe to take out those in the fence row. this year boyo did we have a bumper crop! not sure if it was in the seed mix we sowed or brought on by last years drought. donk decided even with good growth in the pastures that it was a delaccey, to much for a lone donk too clean up !not much luck with herbicide, seemed too bounce off (maybee washed off too).

[DocM]

I kill it, it comes back, probably brought in by roving deer and elk. Luckily, the goats love it. It's just one of those things you put up with.

[highlands]

We used to pull (stab to cut root deep) and burn the thistles but then we realized our pigs were eating them. Now we just hunt thistles in the areas the pigs don't have access to. They love thistles. Ouch!

[chas]

We used to cut them just at blossom time,but always got behind.Then the goldfinches would move in all over the place!
Since we have at least 30/40 goats rotating in all five pastures we don't have any blossoms and very few goldfinches .
Chas

[Ken Scharabok]

Check out the practice of using either straight (on stump) or diluted (sprayed) vinegar. Some folks have reported good results from using it.

For others check out the seed ingredients on bird seed. May contain thistle seed. I suspect on a lot of seeds they digest only the outer coating, passing the actual seed itself (now encased in fertilizer).

[Lynne]

Since we were one of the first to build on these old cow pastures I spent much time walking around with roundup to get the ones in the lawn and a machete once a week in the pastures to keep the plants from blooming. Not much help when the fields around you are not mowed. Now, most lots have been built on and the finch population is down; so is the amount of thistle that grows. I found that after you cut the thistle, the horses and steers like to eat it when it is wilted.

[uncle Will in In.]

The way to kill thistles without chemicals is by cutting them when the sign of the Zodiac is in the Heart in July. You will need an almanac to find the days to do this. About 2 days is all you will find. I know it sounds like hokeus pokeus but it does work. The stubble will pour out sap like a maple tree in early spring and die.

[dcross]

<<check out the seed ingredients on bird seed. May contain thistle seed. >>

If you're thinking of niger, it's not a thistle. I've never understood why they market it that way.

http://www.wildbirds.com/feeding_seed.htm

<<Niger seed is a favorite food of Goldfinches. It resembles small grains of wild rice and has a high fat and protein content. Niger is also known as thistle. Many people think they will be growing thistle weeds in their yard if they offer this seed. In fact, niger is not a thistle at all. It's the seed of the niger plant native to Ethiopia. Niger seed sold as birdseed is heated to prevent it from germinating. >>

[Paula]

I have 2 horses who clip the seedhead off just before it blooms. They keep it relatively under control.
I also read somewhere (most likely one of the grazing publications) where cows were trained to eat it, stalk and all, by spraying molasses on the plants for one season. From then on that herd ate every thistle that appeared in their pasture.

[vtfarma]

We have chopped it down, we have sprayed vinegar on it (fairly successfully I might add). One thing we found that was a problem was when dh used our DR mower in shorts and the stuff from chopping it up sprayed all over his legs. He had blisters on his legs for weeks. Itchy, bumpy, weeping blisters. Nasty. For the rest of this year I chopped them then poured vinegar on the ones the goats couldn't get to. We do not use the roundup on our property. We want to keep the beneficial insects alive and that does not do it. As someone else said here consistency is key.

If you need to reference me that would be fine. Good luck with the project and if you find a surefire never fail cure - let me know.

[unioncreek]

Bull thistle is a biennial it grows as a rosette the first year and then a reproductive plant the second year. It's hard to kill them one they are in the reproctive stage, but during the rosette stage they are easy to kill. I use Curtail in the fall of the year when they are putting a lot of nutrients into the roots for next years growth. The first time I had any on my place was three years ago when I noticed the neighbor had a bumper crop. The next year I had a lot of flower plants, but had a hard time killing them. I sprayed the rosettes that fall and the next year I had very few flower plants.

Bobg

[wyld thang]

Thistle doesn't tolerate shade, it loves disturbed ground, and where the grass grows high before it can it doesn't grow. I've noticed cows, llamas, and goats eat it up in their pastures, and I suspect deer eat it too. If it grows in the area, you can't avoid the seeds. There are snow drifts of seed here in late summer. We also have lots of goldfinches. I suspect it's seed isn't so hearty--there is SO MUCH seed on the ground, but we dont' have wall to wall thistles.

[rambler]

As Union Ckreek says, we need to be carful talking about 'thistles', as local nicknames confuse several different types. Russian, bull, Canadian, milk, sow, are all very different, from annuals to biennuals to perannuals. Some spread through roots, all seem to produce a lot of seed, some store food deeply in roots, other just grow like hair on a dog. Some I can pull with my bare hands, and others will go through common leather gloves to stab you.

Up here in the north, a bull thistle is a biennual that has some _tremendous_ spikes on it, even on the seedhead, and no critter _at all_ will touch it - not even the seedhead. Regular leather gloves that we use for handling Canadian thistle are _no_ match for it, stick right through those.

The key to controlling any biennial is to break it's 2 year cycle. But you need to do that 2 years in a row! If you can get rid of them for 2 years in a row without seed forming, you will have _drasitcally_ reduced the problem. From then on you need to control new sprouts from seed, which is much easier with mowing, chemicals, or what have you.

A biennial wil sprout & grow real weak the fist year, set it self, and the 2nd year it will be very strong, set seed, be difficult to kill as it has a big root supply & really doesn't easily absorb chemicals at that point.

You need to get to it the 1st year. But once infested, there is always a supply of 1st year & 2nd year plants.

Keep them mowed. Do not let one _ever_ set a seed head. They will die off after 2 years.

Then spray once a year to control the new sprouts - spray will kill them easily.

Do not bother trying to spray a plant that already set seed. It is at the end of it's life, & will die anyhow - spray is just wasted.

Tillage _easily_ controls these thistles. With their 2 year cycle, they cannot reporduce if you work up the soil every year. Another good way, if possible, to control them is to rotate your pastures with a row-crop for a year or 2. This isn't practical many times, as pastures often don't grow other crops very well 9too dry, rocky, wet, etc...) but if possible, will take care of the problem _very_ well.

--->Paul

[Windy in Kansas]

In our area of south central Kansas bull thistle is obnoxious, but not a noxious weed in our county. Canada thistle and musk thistle are our only two noxious thistles here.

On rangeland a fairly new herbicide, Milestone" seems to work quite well. It is a non-restricted use pesticide meaning you don't need a license to purchase it. It seems as safe as any and there aren't even grazing restrictions for lactating dairy cattle when it is used.

Overdrive may be another that you might wish to check the label on if you wish to use pesticides.

Tordon 22K is our old standby and is very good but is a restricted use pesticide.

Spraying bull thistle or any of the other thistles in the rosette stage will give better control with less spray. However it is easier to miss some unless you spray the entire area.

Bull thistle has some fine leaf hairs and most sprays require a non-ionic surfactant to properly work on them. Not so with musk thistle.

As with any and all chemical pesticides follow the label directions/restrictions.

[Tricky Grama]

Had lots of this in our back open acreage when we bought the land & after frequent mowing, it's gone. Natural grasses are slowly taking over. Will NOT use roundup-it gets into the ground water & stays forever & it's carcenogenic.

Patty

[prairiecomforts]

Why kill it?!? Just get goats!! My goat love the stufff and will eat it like candy. They have completely cleaned it out of their area and gobbled up piece that blows into their area. They are cheap weed killers and very effective!!

[ceresone]

lol--as far as roundup goes, i try not to use chemicals too--but thistles and bermuda will try anyones patience