Money in Farming?

[beginnerfarmer]

Its been awhile since I been on but anyway, I am wondering is there any money in raise vegetable crops or raising cattle, sheeps, goats or pigs on a small ranch?

[seedspreader]

As the old saying goes...

How to get a million dollars farming... start with two million.

[MaineFarmMom]

I didn't make money with livestock. In a very bad year I can make $15,000 an acre with vegetables. If you decide to go with vegetables you'll need to learn succession planting, crop rotation, low-cost inputs, proper harvesting, season extension at both the beginning and end of the growing season, marketing, selling and more. Selling direct to the customer brings in more money but takes more of your time. Selling wholesale gives you more time but less money per pound. It can be done.

[tyusclan]

It can be done by growing the right crops or the right livestock under the right conditions. Start slowly, find ways to keep your input as low as possible, and develop your market as you grow. You won't get rich, but you can make a decent living.

[michiganfarmer]

My thought is if you own your house and land free and clear you can do ok, but you cant have any fancy toys or equipment. No new cars, no new tractors, no computers, no vacations etc.

I think it would be a fantastic life with a partner who likes that life.

[bargarguy]

I am working with a guy who makes his living raising organic vegetables, and am hoping to make a go of it in the year or so. As pointed out above, free and clear is the way to go, payments will kill a farmer. There is another gentleman on this site by the s.n. Rick1 who does market farming for a living, maybe contact him for some input, he is a real nice guy and would probably be willing to give some pointers on organics if you are interested.

[beginnerfarmer]

would 10 or 15 acres do it? with 3 or 5 acres set aside for vegetable crops?

[bargarguy]

If your going to do 3-5 acres I'd say thats nearly impossible for one person to manage all by themselves and even quite a bit for two people, some additional help would probably be needed which gets into more overhead which I personally hope to avoid. We (2people))plan on starting with only one acre, we garden exstenively now, but doing it as an enterprise is quite a bit different. I would reccomend starting much smaller than 3-5 acres, and then work up to that amount. Again contact Rick1 he is been at it for quite a while.

[Thoughthound]

I have been doing market gardening for a few years.

First, for gardening, you can't do more than two acres alone. It is impossible unless you buy a lot of specialized machinery which will send you deep into the red.

Stick to one acre your first year, and even better would be a half acre. It is easy to plant more, but maintenance and even harvest is very difficult. There's a lot more work than just typical gardening. Just washing that volume of vegetables alone can take a half day or more.

The Godfather of modern market farming, Elliot Coleman, has had his largest operation at around 5 acres I think. By the way, read all of his books. Also read, "Making Your Small Farm Profitable," by Ron Macher.

Sell at a Farmers Market in a college town--progressives (i.e., professors not students) are willing to pay for quality. Read "The New Farmers' Market," by Corum, Rosenzweig and Gibson.

MOST IMPORTANTLY--get some mentoring from someone with experience if you can. Make friends with a market gardener near retirement age and help him or her in your free time. You cannot pay enough for that kind of education. I did this out of serendipity three years ago and I'm sure I have avoided a decade of errors and learning because of this.

It's unlikely that you'll be rich, but you can, with hard work, make a living comparable to a teacher, civil servant, or social worker. Not high paying in dollars, but very noble work and you'd be surprised at how much respect you garner for it.

Good luck.

[beginnerfarmer]

Ok guys thanks for the help, I think I will start small.

[caberjim]

i think profit depends greatly on where you live and what kind of market you have access to. With 2 major cities and several very high income suburbs around us, we're able to sell meats at prices we would never be able get in more rural areas. Chicken, pork, turkeys, eggs, even goat. Most of our customers have large incomes, want healthy, local food and are willing to pay for it. Hard to keep up with demand and we would sell out of whatever we can raise. We don't even do any marketing in the bigger markets and we already sell out of everything twice over. Turkeys for Thanksgiving - I couldn't raise enough to meet the demand. Of course, we market it all as free-range, chemical-free, etc, which is what the people want and are willing to spend money on.

[beginnerfarmer]

Ya, I am planning on growing the vegetable the nature way.

[bill not in oh]

Originally Posted by caberjim

i think profit depends greatly on where you live and what kind of market you have access to. With 2 major cities and several very high income suburbs around us, we're able to sell meats at prices we would never be able get in more rural areas. Chicken, pork, turkeys, eggs, even goat. Most of our customers have large incomes, want healthy, local food and are willing to pay for it. Hard to keep up with demand and we would sell out of whatever we can raise. We don't even do any marketing in the bigger markets and we already sell out of everything twice over. Turkeys for Thanksgiving - I couldn't raise enough to meet the demand. Of course, we market it all as free-range, chemical-free, etc, which is what the people want and are willing to spend money on.

Amen Brother!

Rule #2 is you have to sell to the end consumer - cut out the middle man
Rule #1 is Location, Location, Location

Eggs $3 /doz
Pasture raised chicken - $2.40/lb (will be higher next year)
Pasture raised pork (half or whole hog) $3 / lb hanging weight
Produce at about 2X what the local supermarkets sell for

The market for folks wanting healthier, more nutritious, more flavorful, humanely raised (in the case of meat and eggs), and chemically free food is increasing faster than the folks that supply this type of product can dream of supplying (some estimates have the number tripling each year). You HAVE to be able to understand that you don't ever compete on price with supermarkets - you don't sell the same products. Create a superior product and command a premium price. Work hard, market smart and yes, you can make a living farming.

[MaineFarmMom]

Originally Posted by Thoughthound

The Godfather of modern market farming, Elliot Coleman, has had his largest operation at around 5 acres I think. By the way, read all of his books. Also read, "Making Your Small Farm Profitable," by Ron Macher.

Eliot has 1.5 acres in production now. He uses moveable, heavy duty greenhouses. They're moved once a year.

I agree with bargarguy on size. Two acres is enough for me. My biggest piece of equipment other than the greenhouses is my rototiller. If I have more in production I'll need a tractor. That's a big expense. I can pay someone $200-$300 a year now for all of my tractor work. That's much easier than making 12 payments a year.

You don't need expensive land to market garden. Eliot started in a gravel pit. I wouldn't have known if he hadn't pointed out the far end of the pit. My mortgage is around $300 a month. A short day at market would make that payment. Nothing has to be expensive when you start out.

[beginnerfarmer]

I think a u pick farm is a good idea!

[Lizza]

I also think this is very true. In our area the farmers seem to be doing very good. My BIL in a manager for an organic distribution center and visits a lot of the local farms. They are all doing really good. Someone at his work has a farm stand with a half acre in vegtables and fruit, he said on his worst day at his farm stand he did $750, with his best day being $1500, with most of his days somewhere in between. I think he makes about $15K on his farm stand every year. There was another organic farmer in the paper and WOW his place was nice. They homeschool their kids and he built his wife and kids their own school house. He hardly seemed to be hurting. I think he had 80 acres and he supplies restraunts, goes to the farmers markets, and has a CSA.

BUT around here we have people with money AND lots of hippies that will pay premium money for good organic food. I was on a waiting list for raw organic milk that I believe was $6.50 per half gallon. I never made it to the top of the list, there was just too much demand. My daughter sold her raw goat milk for $5.00 per half gallon and could never keep up with demand. The girls will be milking 3 goats (instead of 1) next spring.

Originally Posted by caberjim

i think profit depends greatly on where you live and what kind of market you have access to. With 2 major cities and several very high income suburbs around us, we're able to sell meats at prices we would never be able get in more rural areas. Chicken, pork, turkeys, eggs, even goat. Most of our customers have large incomes, want healthy, local food and are willing to pay for it. Hard to keep up with demand and we would sell out of whatever we can raise. We don't even do any marketing in the bigger markets and we already sell out of everything twice over. Turkeys for Thanksgiving - I couldn't raise enough to meet the demand. Of course, we market it all as free-range, chemical-free, etc, which is what the people want and are willing to spend money on.

[mommagoose_99]

Money and Farming is an oxymoron.
Be careful with a 'you pick'. It sounds good but it is hard to make people do what they are supposed to . They will end up running around where you don't want them and driving over your strawberries to reach the beans. A lot of produce is wasted because they want only the most perfect veggie. Also you need a lot of liability insurence unless yoou don't mind loosing the farm to someone who gets bit by a tse tse fly while picking.
I grew veggies and sold them at farmers markets from 1990 until 1999 when I got a full time job off the farm and began wholesaling veggies instead of taking them to the farmers market. Pick a veggie that really interests you and specialize in it. We currently sell pickling cucumbers and cantalopes. Both are grown on thermally opaic plastic with black plastic between the rows. The cukes are perfect and very clean which we sell for $32 abushel retail and $15 wholesale. My husband and I pick 4days a week to keep the cukes small . We drive to our market and deliver three days a week. An average delivery will pay $120 so we are not getting rich . The season only lasts 12 weeks. The important thing to us is that we enjoy what we are doing and we have something to show for all the work when we are done.
Good luck and remember to have fun

[afrikaner]

We started with a 5000 acre farm. Mostly potatoes, but some years, we did tomatoes as well. We planted all of about 1000 acres worth and did well, but one bad season and we were in trouble. The key is to find the fine line between specializing and diversifying your crops - then factor that into the amount of acres you can put under irrigation.
It can be done on 13 acres, but then you must have a niche, such as organics/hydroponics of some sort.

[travlnusa]

I have 40 acres. 30 of those are rented out, 3 are taken up with building, leaving me with 7 acres to work.

I raise angus and make a nice side income. I am too small to compete with the large ranches, so I went into seed stock. I bought two good bred heifers, AI'ed them the following spring, and so on. I send the bull calves to a test station out west, and keep the heifers to build my numbers. If I have have a bull calf born that will not do well at test, I will steer him and sell as all natural angus. Worst case is I sell for $2000 (+/-).

I choose black angus not out of love for the breed, but right now, that is where the money is. If/when the market changes, I will change with it.

[ET1 SS]

My BIL raises grapes, and he does okay with them.

My BIL does all the work himself, works year around pruning, training, irrigating, etc. Has the vines trained up onto big 'T' tressises. He used to hire crews of Mexicans to help during harvest each year, but lately he was able to buy a grape picking machine. So now one driver-operator can pick the grapes and can keep four truck drivers busy hauling gondola trailers around. one driver keeps a trailer at the end of the picking machine's conveyor belt. While a second driver, is transfering trailers out onto the road, lining the trailers up and hooking them into strings of three trailers for the trip to the winery. and a forth driver drives three trailers at a time to the winery, and brings back three emptys to be reloaded. During harvest, my sister stays at the winery, she goes up and down the line of trucks, moving each truck up the line. The winery can have as many as 80 trucks waiting to off-load, to go back out to the fields to load up more loaded trailers.

An Army buddy my BIL's has two brothers [Ernest and Julio] who together run a winery business. So my BIL has a contract with his buddy's brother's winery to purchase all his grapes each year, regardless of the harvest and market price.

My BIL has 400 acres of Zinvandale grapes, in California, just South of Modesto.