Manual or Motorized:

hillsidedigger · #1 09/30/06, 07:31 PM

Just curious

would you say you had rather perform a task on your place manually with hand tools than with a motorized machine, if it were possible

or would rather perform a task on your place with a mortorized machine even if it could be effectively performed manually with hand tools?

You know:

Some say 'Why do it the hard way when a motorized machine can do it for you'

and others say

'Why use a motorized machine when I can do this perfectly well with hand tools (might take a little longer)?'

It all has to do with the study of appropriate technology and what seperates those than 'can' (with motorized machines) and those that 'do' without motorized machines.

Around the place here I perform a lot of tasks with shovels, hoes and ripsaws where others might use tractors, tillers and circular saws.

There's a long string of energy, minerals and transportation in delivering the latter.

wyld thang · #2 09/30/06, 07:48 PM

I'm weird, I like doing it by hand. It's much more quiet, and I can listen to the woods. Gives me a good workout too. Course it "is" much easier for the hubby to drag those 20"D oak logs up to the yard with the bulldozer.....(I'd love to have a horse!!)

I do admire the "old" tools, they work so well for the task. Somehow it seems like you get into this rhythm too, your mind can wander a bit...you're not thinking about NOT cutting off fingers or a leg, at least not as paranoid.

Oilpatch197 · #3 09/30/06, 08:19 PM

For example digging a trench for water/sewer line.

in the old days when our parents were poor, we used a spade shovel and dug it.

now my dad goes to the hardware store and rent a trencher for $60/hr and it is easier, but I am still amazed on the disposible income we Americans think we have...

PyroDon · #4 09/30/06, 08:25 PM

Im lazy and time is valuable.
trying to rip a sheet of plywood with a had saw would take a lot more time than grabbing my makita . Chopping firewood by hand would take for ever in hedge and oak , I'll take my chainsaw and cutenough for two months in less time than it takes to cut enough for a week by hand.
Not to meantion I can turn more ground for planting in a day than can be turned in months by hand with my old tractor .
There are things I can do just as quickly by hand but tools are what seperate us from animals

Drizler · #5 09/30/06, 08:27 PM

I like the manual stuff well enough but lets face it sometimes the machine combined with human guidance works so well and is so darned fast......There are so many instances where you can work like a slave for days to do what a machine like a dozer can do nicer in an hour for a couple hundred bucks. Its the old time/ effort versus $$$ thing. If you like doing the hand crafted thing more power to you but if its back breaking labor and you can afford it or have better things to do the machine can't be beat. Seen anyone using a had powered bit brace lately????

tinknal · #6 09/30/06, 09:03 PM

Depends on the job. Splitting wood (except elm

), I can do it faster with a maul than with a hydrolic wood splitter. And as rocky as the ground is here, much easier to dig post holes by hand.

Rockin'B · #7 09/30/06, 09:04 PM

Give me the machine every time. There's plenty that has to be done by hand as it is.

It's a time thing for me. I have no time during the week due to a very long commute so my weekend time is precious and i have a ton of things to do.

I'll take that log splitter every time!

Boleyz · #8 09/30/06, 09:08 PM

I used to drive nails by hand, but not since I got a framing nailer...just point and click...

I love a machine...any machine...all the time, and for every job...if I can afford the proper machine, I'll buy it...if not, I'll rent it...

Git-R-Done!!

PyroDon · #9 09/30/06, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boleyz

I used to drive nails by hand, but not since I got a framing nailer...just point and click...

I love a machine...any machine...all the time, and for every job...if I can afford the proper machine, I'll buy it...if not, I'll rent it...

Git-R-Done!!

Got to agree with ya on the nailers . try as I might I cant find where to plug in the hose or load the nails in my eastwing. I sure dont miss blowing out finger and thumb nails

cheapskate · #10 09/30/06, 09:24 PM

The best thing ever invented....cordless screwdrivers!!!! I find that now I get really frustrated when forced to use a regular old screwdriver.

The Paw · #11 09/30/06, 09:37 PM

i love planing wood by hand
I like augering post holes by hand (up to six or so)
I prefer pruning branches and brush with shears and bow saw.
I enjoy nailing with a hammer.
I used to enjoy splitting wood manually, but my back won't take it anymore.

For sawing lumber, Skil saw.
For dropping trees, chainsaw
For turning sod, tiller.

aussie dave · #12 09/30/06, 09:46 PM

I think it come down to how fast you need something done

like moving the log or putting up a fence this things a done expediently so you stop the live stock getting out and allows you to put the garden bed in where the log is /has been
but if i was making something for the joy of making like a special chair or a spice rack or something like that sure i would do by hand

as someone said before time is money and depending on the situation you have the money cost of your time verses someone elses time.

my dad (retired) had big bolders in his garden he could of chose to get a back how to rip them out ant 120 per hour or as he did spent and hour or 2 a day digging around the bolders levering them up and putting packing in till they were out it took him a couple of weeks but he did it. also when 120 is a half of your pension for a week. some things have to be like that

Bearfootfarm · #13 09/30/06, 11:01 PM

I do both depending on what it is and how much trouble it is to get the machine vs just do it NOW LOL I wont spend money to rent a machine unless it cant be done any other way. For many things the only practical way is to use the machine and get it finished.

Beeman · #14 10/01/06, 07:47 AM

Time is the biggest factor...

Time as in having to get the project done in a certain time frame, and time as in I'm this many years old.

WanderingOak · #15 10/01/06, 09:07 AM

I have to say that for many things, I prefer to use a power tool over a hand tool. However, this is mainly because quality hand tools are hard to find. Even when you have a quality hand tool, finding somebody who has the proper skillsets to train me in it's usage is a PITA. For example, does anybody here know how to set and sharpen the blades on a hand saw? Probably not, so if the blades on your hand saw get bent or dull, you toss it and buy a new one. That is fine for a $10.00 POS saw that was made in China. It should have started it's life on the scrap pile to begin with. However, what if it was a Lie-Nielsen saw that costs well over $100.00, that with proper care could probably be used by your great-grandchildren? You aren't going to just toss that on the scrap-pile when the teeth are dull or out of alighment, are you? Most people don't know how to use or properly care for hand tools. You could spend years working with hand planes and stil be considered a compitent journeyman, rather than an 'expert'.

I know how to make a dovetail joing with a hand saw and a chisel. I also know how to make them using a router and a dovetail jig. However, I much preffer the hand-tool method. After all, there is such a thing as craftsmanship. Some would say that the router and jig method also takes craftsmanship, and it does. If everything is not lined up perfectly in the jig, all you are making if finely tooled firewood. However, I for one had a greater sense of accomplishment making dovetails by hand. The same goes for mortise and tennon joints. I have made them by hand (I did cheat, using a drill press, but I could have used a bit and brace), and seen them made by machine. The machine makes it look easy, but I would rather not spend thousands of dollars on a specialized machine. Of course, I could easily spend the same on a set of quality woodworking chisels, but that is just me.

Oilpatch197 · #16 10/01/06, 09:37 AM

Quote:

However, what if it was a Lie-Nielsen saw that costs well over $100.00, that with proper care could probably be used by your great-grandchildren? You aren't going to just toss that on the scrap-pile when the teeth are dull or out of alighment, are you? Most people don't know how to use or properly care for hand tools. You could spend years working with hand planes and stil be considered a compitent journeyman, rather than an 'expert'.

This is true! I got a cousin that has been exposed to nothing but cheap tools, he leaves his stuff out in the rain, in the mud, etc., when I accidently leave my tools out, they get cleaned with a rag soaked in WD-40.

beorning · #17 10/01/06, 09:55 AM

Some things merit power tools. For tasks like cutting plywood, et cetera, power tools make more sense. Other things are quite the opposite. I spent years sanding all of my wood working projects. Dusty, messy, time consuming and not much fun - but- very little skill required. A couple of years ago, I started buying decent hand planes. It took some time to learn how to sharpen them and tune them up, but I almost never break out a sander these days. I no longer come out of the shop looking like the abominable sawdust man. Instead I end up with a better finished surface and piles of curly shaving on my shop floor. Same with dovetails. The router is "easier" but it really just isn't the same at all as a good hand cut dovetail.

I agree with the cheap tool assessment. I started out buying cheap stuff. Wish I had saved all the money I spent and bought a couple of decent tools instead. I might still be using them.

Decent tools aren't hard to find at reasonable prices. I use old stanley planes exclusively. Never paid more than $40 for one. They are often cheaper than buying a new piece of mass produced improted junk. I haven't learned to sharpen and set saw teeth yet because I can buy a servicable saw for $20. If I take care of it, clean pitch and gunk off of it, et cetera, it lasts a good long while before I need another one. I've found reasonable chisels for $50 for a set of four. Not high end, but sharpenable, comfortable and accurate. I find, the more I get into making furniture, that the power tools are what really bust my wallet. Theres not a machine out there right now that costs less than $300 that I would want in my shop. Most of them are over $500.

rambler · #18 10/01/06, 11:24 AM

I will often go do a job 'the hard way' rather than get out & set up a tool.

But, if posed the question, a motorized tool is a lot more fun & gets more done.

--->Paul

michiganfarmer · #19 10/01/06, 11:43 AM

My thought is we are fat as pigs becuse we dont do any manual labor anymore. When I have the energy I do everything manually. I need the exercise. Machines get the job done fast so we have time to sit and get fatter, or waste time and resources on vacations, and other leisure activities.
We have become a "get it done with no labor so I can have leisure time" country. It is killing us with fat.

I am guilty too. I weigh 280 lbs. I do however know what caused it. Using machiines to do the labor that kept our ancestors thin.

PyroDon · #20 10/01/06, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiganfarmer

My thought is we are fat as pigs becuse we dont do any manual labor anymore. When I have the energy I do everything manually. I need the exercise. Machines get the job done fast so we have time to sit and get fatter, or waste time and resources on vacations, and other leisure activities.
We have become a "get it done with no labor so I can have leisure time" country. It is killing us with fat.

I am guilty too. I weigh 280 lbs. I do however know what caused it. Using machiines to do the labor that kept our ancestors thin.

Then whats my deal I cant gain weight weigh 135-150 all my life on 8000 calories plus a day and use any tool possible to ake things easier ??