Henshaw Incident - USDA Slaughter of Pigs

[highlands]

Please read:

http://nonais.org/index.php/2006/09/...shaw-incident/

If you know of any like incidences please let me know.

Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Orange, Vermont
Pastured Pigs & Sheep
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog
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[jnap31]

Thanks I sent $ for them to use on making materials but did not know their were links to them.

[MullersLaneFarm]

also see thread
http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthr...90#post1686390 for Cindi Henshaw's story in her own words - horrifying!

[Tango]

At first read, I dislike the sentmentality in what should be a journalistic report giving facts so a person can discern those facts. That sentimentality is almost always due to lack of credible evidence on the part of the writer and that last line "you could be next" type plea is a fallacy. The article obfuscates the reasoning as if that lack of clarity is the state's fault. Not saying there was justification but there are questions of licensing a hunting preserve and pseudorabies as a reason that remain unanswered. A hunting preserve with pseudorabies is no light matter. While not transmisable to humans it is a huge danger to dogs and other animals and a danger to an otherwise healthy commercial national herd. Proactive testing would have saved the Henshaw's pets pigs but their herd would have had to be destroyed. Why they weren't allowed to take them to slaughter and sell the carcasses is a mystery. This doesn't really seem to be an NAIS issue. There is a member here who lost all his swine in TN to a brucellosis inspection. The swine were all killed- granted not so dramatically. Test your stock! Don't you?

[AngieM2]

There's a post about it in SR forum also.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sho...d.php?t=143015

Angie

[bachelorb]

I have to agree with you Tango, I looked up the USDA site atPseudorabies it looks like the policy has been in place since 1999. The only thing to question would be how they disposed of the infected herd, and even there, I think the provisions might have been covered.

[MullersLaneFarm]

looks like they bypassed stage I & II and went right to stage III

[jnap31]

well seems like if that is the case they should not have had a problem having them tested by the owners for the disease, I believe this is a forerunner of NAIS and we will be seeing lots of this with in the next few years especially by the end of 2009

[jnap31]

Also I thought I read on one of those links that their is not even any pseudorabies left now in pigs in the USA. Besides like the henshaws say the pigs were healthy and mnaking lots of healthy little ones and all the evidence is gone now incinerated by the state. I am so sad for these folks I dont know how they can go on living here after that happening

[RedHogs]

Please don't confuse that "Article" as anythong other than bias junk. I'm less than 3 miles from a major psuedo outbreak here in tennessee, i am reguraly tested and i champion this eradication policey, but we need more... stiff jail time for those who break the law and transport untested stock to anywhere but the slaughter house. I have a neighbor that just bought a big sow at the sale barn and put in her horse pasture.... it stayed in one day and went on a walk about....This sale barn has had confirmed pseudo in the last months...Has 4x8 plywood sign explaining that hogs are for slaughter only....YOU MUST SIGN THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THIS!!! she said she thought that this rule shouldn't apply to her one pig. I understand that homesteaders with limited numbers don't think they should have to deal with the headache of NAIS compliance, But give me a better solution. The current laws aren't working, my farm is at risk and i am not sure even NAIS regs can prevent diseases being spread if the rules aren't followed.

[rambler]

Here in MN a gentleman dairy farmer got onto a kick where he was advised that income taxes were not constontutional. He didn't pay them. After many years, his farm was taken.

It was a long, odd journey. He even has some good points. To hear him, the govt just came in and unjustly took his land.

Now, if one knows the rest of the story, it was along, long battle. This didn't just happen over night. Many options were given to the gentleman. Most of his family was pleading with him. The govt people doing their job were appologising to his family & potential heirs, saying the fellow left them no other option after years of going over the issue. They gave the family members different ways to try to protect the assets, around the gentleman farmer's stubborness. As best they could.

The govt auctioned off his property on the courthouse steps. After many, many years.

Do any of us believe we can get out of paying income tax? No matter what the constitution says? In this day & age?

There was no sudden appearence of govt thugs. It was a very long, many-year issue.

While the story of the pig hunting place is moving, and sad for the people who owned it.......

The goverment does not move in out of the dark & start shooting. That situation would have been in operation for a long, long time. Letters, meetings, visits. And finally when nothing else was allowed.....

It just does not go that suddenly.

When we live in society, we need to be a part of it.

These things can be debated, argued, work pro or con for the issue. Many of you here are so involved, and that is good.

In the end, we need to do our part for society. If we are totally stubborn & do not cooperate one tiny little bit, then aweful things happen. After a lot of effort, time, & options from the govt.

If such a sudden govt aproach happened, where was their lawyer, where was the court stay, where was the appeal? If they sat around & did nothing for 3 days - obviously they were aware of this situation for some time and did nothing about it until it was too late & they had used up all their options of just being stubborn.

I'm sorry for the pig shooting owners. But hearing only one side, I am, at the least, suspicious of the sequence of events. To say the least.

They would have had several chances to resolve this situation and, by their own inaction or stubborness, let things get to this point.

Clearly.

--->Paul

[rambler]

Originally Posted by jnap31

Also I thought I read on one of those links that their is not even any pseudorabies left now in pigs in the USA. Besides like the henshaws say the pigs were healthy and mnaking lots of healthy little ones and all the evidence is gone now incinerated by the state. I am so sad for these folks I dont know how they can go on living here after that happening

You read wrong.

I don't understand how homesteaders think they are above society, and should be allowed to spread disease willy nilly. It just doesn't make sense. Don't get it.

As Redhogs says.

--->Paul

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by rambler

You read wrong.

I don't understand how homesteaders think they are above society, and should be allowed to spread disease willy nilly. It just doesn't make sense. Don't get it.

As Redhogs says.

--->Paul

How many have spread disease willy nilly? I mean seriously Paul, that's not the kind of blanket statement I usually expect from you.

RedHogs told us a personal story to illustrate his point, everyone here can do it for or against NAIS. What do the facts say? That should be the real question, WHERE does most of the disease come from? Feed lots or some fellows back acres?

I mean I can tell stories about people feeding animal parts (including brain matter) back to livestock, can even probably find video of it online.

Facts, if we all stick to them we may be able to get through this, and I think the facts argue against the smallholder as "spreading disease willy nilly".

[rambler]

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

Facts, if we all stick to them we may be able to get through this, and I think the facts argue against the smallholder as "spreading disease willy nilly".

I disagree with you actually, the facts prove otherwise.

But this is a homesteading forum, so facts will not win out here. I've been down that path before. And it is natural, I understand. One protects one's own, no matter the facts.

The world over, the bad viral dieseases are created from small micro herds of livestock that interact with other herds & wildlife. But - no one here wants to hear about that. Large farm facilities already _greatly_ control the interaction of livestock & humans & who may enter where.

So I will only say that I disagree with you, and leave it at that. I understand.

--->Paul

[chas]

Ever hear of Waco or Ruby Ridge Rambler?
Yeah I'm from the government and I'm here to help you........
I don't trust government one bit,maybe individuals in gov. but not the gov. as a whole!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chas

[homebirtha]

I'm not getting what this has to do with NAIS? And it's not like this kind of thing has happened before. If anything, this argues that NAIS isn't necessary, because the govt. already comes in and destroys whole hers, withtou NAIS. Here in Maryland, there have been entire chicken flocks destroyed when there are cases of avian flu. It's happened for years. Way before anyone ever heard of NAIS. I'm just not seeing the connection on why this story, whether this family is innocent or guilty, has much to do with NAIS.

[texican]

I reckon it comes down to.......

are you pro disease

or anti disease....


The safety of the food supply is everyones responsibility...

My uncle sold some hogs during the summer, and one of his hogs ended up in a sick herd... the feds came out and tested each animal at his place... if any tested positive, they'd all be slaughtered... and he approved of the policy... he didn't want any sick hogs on his place, infecting the rest, or anyone else's hogs, or any humans gettin sick...


Personally, I'm anti-disease.

I still think the implementation of NAIS (at least in the track every single critter way) is unimplentable... and if so, it'd be a great job for millions of folks who like animals... cause it'd take an inspector to come out and check on my critters several times a week, and a large truck to haul off all of the paperwork... I figure for this one medium sized county, they'd need a couple hundred individuals to do ground survey/checks...

[GrannyCarol]

Originally Posted by rambler

The goverment does not move in out of the dark & start shooting. That situation would have been in operation for a long, long time. Letters, meetings, visits. And finally when nothing else was allowed.....

I wish it were so... If you want to do the research, particularly into unclassified documents by the government themselves, you will soon see a different picture. Sure, many times people are unreasonable (though what is unreasonable about asking our government to follow its own Constitution, I'm not so sure!), but other times, if someone with power has an ax to grind, individuals WILL be treated unfairly and even horribly.

This world is not a nice and pretty place as you seem to think. I wish it were, I used to think things might happen because of screw ups, but I've started to educate myself in recent years. It is not a screw up that had the US gov't using their citizens as test subjects for the affects of nuclear waste (Hanford), as subjects for how to deliver diseases over crowded cities (New York among others) and also as test subjects for many biological agents, for mind control agents, etc. I realize that you will probably brand me as some sort of crazy or whatever, but I am a middle aged grandmother, who has led a very comfortable prole life up until recently.

The US government DOES come at night, knocking down doors and shooting people. Look at Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge - he was an ex-agent that decided to quit and live quietly. The US gov't wanted him to work for them... he refused. They set him up and killed members of his family as an example to pressure anyone else that refuses them in the future. Look at the Jim Jones incident in Gayana - we were told they commited suicide with poisoned coolaide. Somehow that doesn't explain the CIA presence in the area, the Congressman sorta accidently killed at that time, in that area (he was investigating the CIA and had a bill in to curb their behavior), the documented gunshot wounds to most of the "cult" members, that Jim Jones was an ex CIA agent and a "player" in politics, the bodies lined up in piles... how does one commit suicide by coolaide and end up in lines and piles? I say it was a coverup for clandistine activities.

Nor will I agree that there was ANY excuse for what happened at Waco. Even though I don't agree with the religion there, I have seen the tape of the Congressional hearing and the evidence from that and it is very clear they murdered those people, including women and children, and most horribly, using a nerve poison that is banned by the Geneva convention to use in wars! I saw the x-rays of the babies contorted skeletons and I cannot blame the frightened parents - there was evidence they were being shot at when they tried to flee!

There is what we are trained to believe from when we are little... and there is what is really happening in this world. They are not the same thing. I am sorry that it is so, but the very least I can hope to do is not to close my eyes just to make myself comfortable. I would encourage others to seek out the information available and make informed choices, even if it is uncomfortable.

~ Carol

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by rambler

I disagree with you actually, the facts prove otherwise.

But this is a homesteading forum, so facts will not win out here. I've been down that path before. And it is natural, I understand. One protects one's own, no matter the facts.

The world over, the bad viral dieseases are created from small micro herds of livestock that interact with other herds & wildlife. But - no one here wants to hear about that. Large farm facilities already _greatly_ control the interaction of livestock & humans & who may enter where.

So I will only say that I disagree with you, and leave it at that. I understand.

--->Paul

No Paul, by all means, I would love to see proof that the disease is coming from "micro herds of livestock". Perhaps I will be swayed to begin keeping my animals confined and doing it the easy way.

It's rather strange to say "one protects one's own, no matter the facts" though, because I would think that means you have placed yourself into one group or the other and that would mean that regardless of the facts you, yourself will fall victim to your statement. Unless you mean "YOU (other people than me)" protect your own... or perhaps it's just rhetoric???

I'll up the ante: Here's the gov. site on Mad cow... http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/bse.html

Here's the FAQ on Mad Cow: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/bsefaq.html

Note:

Was a second case of BSE identified in the U.S. in June 2005?

Yes, the USDA surveillance program identified the second BSE case in the U.S. This cow was originally identified in November 2004. Results from this animal were inconclusive in screening tests, but negative in confirmatory immunohistochemical tests. USDA recently conducted an additional confirmatory test, Western Blot, and the results were positive for BSE. USDA sent the samples to the Weybridge, UK lab where BSE was confirmed. An epidemiological investigation to trace the origins of the cow is underway. USDA confirms that the cow was born before the U.S. instituted its ban on the use of most mammalian protein in feed for ruminant animals-believed to be the most critical protective measure in preventing the spread of BSE among cattle.
Did meat and meat products from the June 2005 cow enter the food supply?

No, the cow was presented at slaughter as non-ambulatory (a downer). Therefore, in accordance with BSE regulations established by USDA and FDA the material from the animal did not enter the human food supply.
Was a case of BSE identified in the U.S. in December 2003?

Yes, the USDA surveillance program identified the first BSE case in the U.S. in a dairy cow in Washington State. The cow was bought from a farm in Canada.
Did meat and meat products from the 2003 BSE cow enter the food supply?

As soon as the BSE case was identified, both USDA and FDA activated their BSE Emergency Response Plans, and USDA immediately recalled the meat. Meat that did enter the food supply was quickly traced and was removed from the marketplace. Moreover, all the organs in which infectious prions occur were removed at slaughter and did not enter the food supply. Consumers should feel very confident that the system of multiple firewalls maintained by Federal agencies protects them from possible exposure to BSE. In addition, we believe it is important for consumers to also understand that scientific research indicates that muscle meat is not a source of infectious prions.

You can go read the rest, but WHO here feeds ANIMAL protein (ie, other dead cows) to their cows??? Anyone? Please raise your hands!

[Snowdancer]

Bob, maybe not cow remains to cows but I have seen posts in the Goat/Sheep section where a homesteader with new animals was giving them 'treats' of dog and cat food. Even after it was pointed out that it was not something one should do; the reply was 'But they like it & it's cheap'.
That is just as likely if not more so to cause a disease outbreak as buying ruminant laced feed made specifically for ruminants.

Just as with all sorts of farming practices; there are some homesteaders who are very diligent about what they feed & biosecurity and there are others who would feed anything available just to get the animals to weight for selling.

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

No Paul, by all means, I would love to see proof that the disease is coming from "micro herds of livestock". Perhaps I will be swayed to begin keeping my animals confined and doing it the easy way.

It's rather strange to say "one protects one's own, no matter the facts" though, because I would think that means you have placed yourself into one group or the other and that would mean that regardless of the facts you, yourself will fall victim to your statement. Unless you mean "YOU (other people than me)" protect your own... or perhaps it's just rhetoric???

I'll up the ante: Here's the gov. site on Mad cow... http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/bse.html

Here's the FAQ on Mad Cow: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/bsefaq.html

Note:
You can go read the rest, but WHO here feeds ANIMAL protein (ie, other dead cows) to their cows??? Anyone? Please raise your hands!