How to get way more from your garden cheaply

jnap31 · #1 09/02/06, 10:17 AM

Most probably dont know about this but there is something you can do to improve your garden greatly at little expense, since seeing is believing look at these photos
http://www.remineralize.org/benefits.php
http://www.remineralize.org/hamaker.php

and here is the main page, I just discovered it a few months ago and cant wait to get back home and remineralize my gardens http://www.remineralize.org/

suitcase_sally · #2 09/02/06, 10:50 AM

Very interesting...

dcross · #3 09/02/06, 11:11 AM

Methinks they're selling sizzle...

suburbanite · #4 09/02/06, 12:02 PM

Carrots like sandy soil. It may just be a textural issue for the soil, not 'mineral' content.

If soil has a deficit of something, then supplementing that certainly should help, right? But whether the boron you need for strawberry fruit set (for example) comes from sand you added, an 'impurity' in your local water (not far from here is a place where the boron in the water is too high to farm with!), or miracle grow, it is all the same element of the periodic table--boron.

I don't see that amending soil to add minerals is any different regardless of whether that amendment comes from ground granite or from a commercial fertilizer that has added trace elements.

You can overdo it too. The area around Mt. St. Helens remains a scrubby semi-waste, with all the organic ash there which has not yet had time to be broken down into good soil. So too much volcanic ash is a bad thing. Yet a friend of mine took a jar of it as a souvenir (from outside the park, back when it was being cleaned up from city streets and such), and added it to the soil the way he would have used sand when he re-potted his dwarf meyer lemon bush back home here in Calfornia. Not only did the bush get more lush and larger (hello, new pot, duh), but it also put forth so many grapefruit-sized lemons you could hardly get a leaf between them. He thinks it was due in part to trace elements in the ash.

I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't expect 'adding minerals' to cure garden ills. I think you have to diagnose what the problem actually is before you go spending money on stuff like this. The guys with the boron water problem certainly wouldn't benefit from adding minerals to their soil, for example.

minnikin1 · #5 09/02/06, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcross

Methinks they're selling sizzle...

I've read that just going to your local quarry and asking for cheap cheap dust leavings will achieve the same ...

Thanks jnap, you certainly are contributing a lot of interesting info on the forum!

suburbanite · #6 09/02/06, 12:11 PM

This is a genuine question, not a smart-aleck remark--how would cheap dust leavings from a quarry differ as a garden amendment from cheap sand from a rockery, in terms of mineral content? Is there someone out there who does quarry work or has some insider knowledge about these things? It seems to me like it's all little bitty rocks, and rocks are all made of minerals of *some* type, so there should be some release of water-soluble elements from any kind of finely-divided rock, right? Even plain old sand?

Another thing I sort of wonder, high-tech biotech companies are always finding new bacteria in exotic locations like caves and pristine underground water tables. Maybe this guy's ground granite wasn't the magic ingredients for his carrots--maybe he got a bacteria with the granite that was good for his soil?

treefrog · #7 09/02/06, 12:28 PM

the question is way too complex for a simple answer. there are way too many variables.

what is the mineral content of the rock dust? (probably different for each quarry)
how quickly is this content available to plant roots? (volcanic ash is quick)
what is the particle size of the rock dust? (probably not uniform)
same questions for sand.
what is the mineral content of the soil being amended?

my preferred solution is as much diversity as possible. when i go to the beach, i sometimes bring back some seaweed to add to the compost pile. when there's a little limestone gravel left over from driveway work, it goes in there too.... etc....etc....

pax
t.f.

suburbanite · #8 09/02/06, 12:43 PM

that sounds like a good strategy, treefrog, I'll start doing that.

FarmboyBill · #9 09/02/06, 12:55 PM

The thought comes to mind as to where am I going to find a source for enough Glaceial Moraine dust, sic, to do 10 acres, for corn ,and then the machine to spread it with? That would be nice in the garden, but are we expected to pound big rocks into dust? I never heard of rock dusts with different properties being for sale, other than green sand. and thats high dollar stuff

MELOC · #10 09/02/06, 01:02 PM

i guess it depends on the rock dust being mined. in my area limestone is being taken. i have a forested hill that doesn't grow morels like the woods 1/4 mile away. i have lots of iron ore on that hill. i thought of getting some limestone crusher run and spreading lightly on the hill. the dust would help to correct the ph short term and the stones could shed lime slowly over time.

**Cabin Fever** · #11 09/02/06, 01:18 PM

As a soil scientist, the term "remineralize" is just a fancy word for "fertilize." At last count, I believe there are 19 essential elements (or minerals) that all plant life requires. Soil pH influences the bioavailability (ie, solubility) of these minerals to plants. Most growers focus on the big three nutrients (nitrogen, phosphate and potash). Plants are big feeders of these macronutrients. Often, people forget about the micronutrients. A soil test should tell you the nutrient level...I'm sorry, mineral level...of your soil.

Now here's the thing, all commercially-available minerals come from mining the earth (except nitrogen which comes from the air). The difference between rock dusts/mining wastes and commerically available minerals (fertilizers) is that the commercial stuff is concentrated and for the most part readily-soluble and rock dusts are dilute and are slowly soluble.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for recycling mining wastes...but there is no "magic" associated with them. Plants are going to respond favorably to any form of mineral if that mineral is deficient in the soil....the plant doesn't care where it came from.

(BTW, Suburbanite you stated your comments very well...good job!)

suburbanite · #12 09/02/06, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

(BTW, Suburbanite you stated your comments very well...good job!)

thanks!

Windy in Kansas · #13 09/02/06, 05:25 PM

When I wheat farmed annual soil tests gave suggested levels of fertilizers to apply for various crop production levels. In most cases applying maximum fertilizers simply weren't feasible because our area of the state didn't get enough rainfall to shoot for maximum production.

I have applied both zinc and iron as per soil test recommendations. Usually the iron and zinc also had other nutrients as well, boron being one I recall.

A few years ago I was buying liquid iron at a garden center to use on garden crops in our sandy soil. About 1998 I learned of a product sold as "Spray-N-Grow". It is basically a micronutrient fertilizer formula and says it is like vitamins for your plants. Foliar applications are recommended to be most cost effective.

I really believe the use of it makes a great difference. Perhaps Miracle-Grow would do just as well, but I've never used it with anything other than houseplants.
----
The biggest problem I see is that I can't just go to a store and buy a bagful of each mineral that I think would help, or as per soil test. At least not without great cost due to shipping and packaging.

minnikin1 · #14 09/02/06, 05:48 PM

I'm trying to remember what they call water in the streams that run to the Hunza's gardens....

They say it has so much glacial sediment that it appears milky white - and many folks believe it's a key component to 100+ year lifespans of these people.

It's also well known that people in the US who live in areas with high mineral content in the water live longer than those who live in soft water areas.

I tend to believe that we "know" less scientifically than we like to admit, and there are probably quite a few processes that are required for life that we are oblivious to. I think as time goes on, we will learn we've done more damage to our soils than we thought.

For generations before me they've been depleting the land. It can't hurt to put back. At least with rock dust, it's less likely I'll cause an imbalance than if I apply concentrated products.

Qwispea · #15 09/02/06, 06:51 PM

The addition of controlled amounts of trace organic elements to otherwise non-enhanced soil will likely produce greater yeilds. Choose whatever application medium you prefer.

huisjen · #16 09/02/06, 07:06 PM

Gravestones are often granite. Monument carvers are said to be a steady source of small quantities of granite dust.

Dan

jnap31 · #17 09/03/06, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't expect 'adding minerals' to cure garden ills. I think you have to diagnose what the problem actually is before you go spending money on stuff like this. The guys with the boron water problem certainly wouldn't benefit from adding minerals to their soil, for example.

I wouldnt go knocking it with out reading the site and trying it out. As far as not seeing the difference between rock powders and conventional fertilizers I dont know what to say, Rock powders are natural Man made fertilizers have artificial Nitrogen Phosphate and potassium added. As far as spending $ on stuff like this , I bet you could fill up a truck bed with powder at the local rock quarry for $5

jnap31 · #18 09/03/06, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minnikin1

I've read that just going to your local quarry and asking for cheap cheap dust leavings will achieve the same ...

Thanks jnap, you certainly are contributing a lot of interesting info on the forum!

Thanks a lot I am glad you enjoy my posts/threads. Your right going to the rock quarry would be cheap there is no need to buy expensive pre packaged things, In fact there is a pahe on the site that has a list of numerous rock quarries arround the world that you can obtain it from and I saw several in AR I will be visiting soon. edited to add you didnt just say that because I am a good book customer did you? LOL

jnap31 · #19 09/03/06, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite

This is a genuine question, not a smart-aleck remark--how would cheap dust leavings from a quarry differ as a garden amendment from cheap sand from a rockery, in terms of mineral content? Is there someone out there who does quarry work or has some insider knowledge about these things? It seems to me like it's all little bitty rocks, and rocks are all made of minerals of *some* type, so there should be some release of water-soluble elements from any kind of finely-divided rock, right? Even plain old sand?

Another thing I sort of wonder, high-tech biotech companies are always finding new bacteria in exotic locations like caves and pristine underground water tables. Maybe this guy's ground granite wasn't the magic ingredients for his carrots--maybe he got a bacteria with the granite that was good for his soil?

Sorry I am not a scientist so cant give you a satisfactory response I know that the sand where I use to live was solely madeup of the exoskelotons of plankton and was pretty much calcium I imagine there were a few trace minerals though Iron was in very short supply. As far as your speculation on bacteria it sounds plausible to me though if you read the site you will see it is not just "that guys" experience there are hundreds of similar experiences around the world.

jnap31 · #20 09/03/06, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

The thought comes to mind as to where am I going to find a source for enough Glaceial Moraine dust, sic, to do 10 acres, for corn ,and then the machine to spread it with? That would be nice in the garden, but are we expected to pound big rocks into dust? I never heard of rock dusts with different properties being for sale, other than green sand. and thats high dollar stuff

I read a lot and Granit dust was mentioned as being especially good also gneiss or something like that wish I hadhad a pen to write it down they did say that any rock dust will work to a ceartain extent. Not sure about machines How do people spread limestone powder on their fields? I know they said on the site in a few articles and places that Grimmway farms in CA one of the largest organic growers had remineralized there 19,000 acres somehow. I also read about the guy in Hawaii that has done 12acres I think he does his by hand spreading it around his trees he uses volunteer labor also. I know I will try it when I get back I will do it in two different small plots that have not been improved at all in some brush I need to clear and Compare it to places with outthe powder and will let you all know, But I am confident enough in it that I am going to do all my main garden first when I get back.