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08/12/06, 10:05 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,607
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Milk Thistle and Hepatitiis
Low-quality trials suggested beneficial effects. High-quality randomised clinical trials on milk thistle versus placebo may be needed.
From The Cochrane Library, Issue 3, 2006
PLAIN LANGUAGE SUMMARY
No evidence supporting or refuting milk thistle for alcoholic and/or hepatitis B or C virus liver diseases
Milk thistle (Silybum marianum (L) Gaertneri) extracts have been used as medical remedies since the time of ancient Greece. Alcohol and hepatotoxic viruses are the major causes of liver diseases. Several trials have studied the effects of milk thistle for patients with liver diseases. This systematic review could not demonstrate significant effects of milk thistle on mortality or complications of liver diseases in patients with alcoholic and/or hepatitis B or C liver diseases combining all trials or high-quality trials. Low-quality trials suggested beneficial effects. High-quality randomised clinical trials on milk thistle versus placebo may be needed.
Last edited by Cabin Fever; 08/12/06 at 10:10 PM.
Reason: Take the high road, Primal1.
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08/12/06, 10:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: TN
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1. That quote contradicts your position.
2. You are as obstinant as you purport he is.
3. Since this is worse than the previous thread, I think you are just making more work for the mods.
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08/12/06, 10:15 PM
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Banned
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First sentence of the report your citng from:
Milk thistle, a widely used alternative medicine, is not proven effective in lowering mortality in alcoholic or hepatitis B or C liver disease, according to a systematic review of current evidence.
NCCAM trial just completed addressing the deficiencies cited in the Cochrane review found no benefit for HCV patients.
Why keep hoping?
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08/12/06, 10:18 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Red Devil TN
1. That quote contradicts your position.
2. You are as obstinant as you purport he is.
3. Since this is worse than the previous thread, I think you are just making more work for the mods.
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yes it does....and I agree its not a homesteading topic and probably not welcome.....although a great many homesteaders are no doubt infected with the disease....
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08/12/06, 10:25 PM
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Fair to adequate Mod
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Between Crosslake and Emily Minnesota
Posts: 13,728
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
yes it does....and I agree its not a homesteading topic and probably not welcome.....although a great many homesteaders are no doubt infected with the disease....
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Robert, I believe that homeopathic and alternative medicene is a topic of interest to many homesteaders. And since we don't have a forum specific to this topic, I am inclined to allow such discussion.
And I pray to God that homesteaders are not infected with any specific disease. Now, keep it above the belt.....this goes for everyone!
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This is the government the Founding Fathers warned us about.....
Last edited by Cabin Fever; 08/12/06 at 10:27 PM.
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08/12/06, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
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not at all guys, 'No evidence supporting or refuting milk thistle'... hence higher level studies may be needed.
I don't remember claiming it worked the way bob has claimed it that doesn't.
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08/12/06, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
yes it does....and I agree its not a homesteading topic and probably not welcome.....although a great many homesteaders are no doubt infected with the disease....
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say what?? not a homesteading topic?
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08/12/06, 10:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by primal1
not at all guys, 'No evidence supporting or refuting milk thistle'... hence higher level studies may be needed.
I don't remember claiming it worked the way bob has claimed it that doesn't.
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well couldn't you say the same thing for grass clippings or chewing on tree bark....no evidence supporting or refuting them.....problem is this compound has a interesting history and claims have far exceeded that which it might be effective in treating.......trials and evidence indicate that there is nothing supporting its efficacy in treatment of viral hepatitis....it does not improve mortality rates above placebo for HCV....that is not exactly an indication that it has any benefit worth crowing about....
cabinfever, if your trying to sound like my mom it won't work.......she's the only one who calls me Robert.......
mea culpa...since the other thread was closed I concluded wrongly that it was the discussion of milk thistle not the hijack contenct that was out of bounds....
Last edited by BobK; 08/12/06 at 10:49 PM.
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08/14/06, 04:21 AM
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garden guy
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I definitely consider it a homesteading topic and find alternative medicines fascinating, I appreciate Bobk's sharing his knowledge of conventional medicine and diseases with us though he is quite knowlegable IMO. edited to add I give this thread another page at the most before it is locked.
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marching to the beat of a different drummer
Last edited by jnap31; 08/14/06 at 04:44 AM.
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08/14/06, 04:43 AM
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garden guy
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Location: AR (ozarks)
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I just read the thread below this one for the first time, and I have read the others. Though I am in the minority and some may wish to also place me in the pay per view match because of it, I completely agree with Boyleyz opinion in the other thread and was fixing to say the same thing here. Even if you dont agree with peoples ideas and views this is a public forum and everyone is entitled to post and share with in the rules of the forum. I was ROTFL after that thread I loved the funny lalalalala post and shygals comment was to funny I got an amazing mental picture of that match in my head but I will not describe it here as I dont want to upset anyone at this time.LOL By the way Shygal this forum would be exceedingly boring with out the posters you mentioned and much the poorer with their absence IMO. They all have questioning minds, are good at making themselves understood and can look at different sides of issues and are not afraid to be on the side that is unpopular.
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marching to the beat of a different drummer
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08/14/06, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
First sentence of the report your citng from:
Milk thistle, a widely used alternative medicine, is not proven effective in lowering mortality in alcoholic or hepatitis B or C liver disease, according to a systematic review of current evidence.
NCCAM trial just completed addressing the deficiencies cited in the Cochrane review found no benefit for HCV patients.
Why keep hoping?
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I am familiar with some NCCAM work a few years ago on St. John's wort. About a million dollars, I think. The study got mixed results (as I recall) but it turned out that their experimental protcols called for purchasing plant matieral from commecial sources with no authentification of the product contents, different batches, material purchases from different sources on different dates. Maybe they've got better since then.
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08/14/06, 02:11 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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you thought the NCCAM study on saw palmetto was well conducted...at least that is what you told me after I sent it to you to read.....maybe this one is also......check it out and get back to us....
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08/14/06, 02:53 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: So Cal Mtns
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Why dont you just google an answer.Far more info on the web than will be gleaned here.
BooBoo
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08/14/06, 03:20 PM
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Banned
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mightybooboo
Why dont you just google an answer.Far more info on the web than will be gleaned here.
BooBoo
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I've already read the study results...how do you think I know what the authors say about milk thistle? I've also posted it on the other HCV thread....you can read it there....
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08/14/06, 03:27 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
I've already read the study results...how do you think I know what the authors say about milk thistle? I've also posted it on the other HCV thread....you can read it there....
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Studies for any medication only carry so much weight. I have seen many mixed results from various studies from commonly used drugs such as estrogen. Early studies said it was good for your bones and heart and was NOT linked to breast cancer. Now it is not good for your bones and heart and may cause breast cancer. I think the studies bear out whatever you want them to bear out. Put together ten studies for any one item and there will be such an array of possibilities that no one will stand out more than the other. I am just waiting for next year, when another estrogen study says it is good for you again. 
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08/14/06, 03:32 PM
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Banned
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Outside of best available data what elsewould you use...a coin toss? Magic eight-ball?
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08/14/06, 03:40 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,196
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
Outside of best available data what elsewould you use...a coin toss? Magic eight-ball?
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I'm beginning to think it would be just as reliable.
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08/14/06, 04:53 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
Outside of best available data what elsewould you use...a coin toss? Magic eight-ball?
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well 2000 years of anecdota evidence beats a poor study thats for sure
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08/14/06, 05:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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there's 2000 years of anecdotal evidence tha milk thistle is good for treating HCV....could you show me some background on that?
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08/14/06, 06:09 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 442
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
you thought the NCCAM study on saw palmetto was well conducted...at least that is what you told me after I sent it to you to read.....maybe this one is also......check it out and get back to us....
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Yes, but residual skepticism remains. I got to see first hand the arrogance of ignorance with NCCAM and in other pharmaceutical researchers who kept proclaiming the glory of their protocols when they knew nothing about the biologically complex plant materials that were the foundation of their study. I guess it was the haughtiness within a discipline. For some reason, its still there.
Please post the link.
Last edited by caballoviejo; 08/14/06 at 06:22 PM.
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