What should I tell the insurance company?

[Weho Dave]

The farm house I bought last year was built in 1886. It is a fixer-upper. But I like the area, and I like the old-time feeling I get here. My first homeowner's insurance company dropped me because they said my house needed repairs. So we switched to my state's insurer of last resort. Now they want repairs done. They want me to have the chimney re-pointed, and put rails on my front steps. The last chimney contractor I had in told me it would be cheaper to tear the house down and rebuild. They are giving me 30 days before they cancel.

I am really sick of these insurance company's being so bossy. My home is paid for free and clear. I am not required to have insurance. Basically, I pay them $600/year for nothing except for them to tell me my house needs repairs. In 20 years of owning a home, I have never filed a claim against any insurance company. You would think they would be happy to collect my money and keep their mouth shut. As it is, I feel like telling them to put their inspections where the sun don't shine.

It seems to me that insurance companies have become too intrusive into the lives of ordinary people. I pay for homeowner's insurance, auto insurance on three vehicles, and life insurance. I let my health insurance go because it was more expensive than it was worth. I am about ready to let the homeowner's insurance go, as well. What is it with them? Are they doing so bad financially that they don't want to take any risk, or are they doing so good that they can be so picky? What do you all think I should do?

[RandB]

If you own it free and clear, and ins. isn't required, I would set up an account and put that 600 a month into a savings that could build up. In time, you could accumulate enough money to make repairs as needed.

[Mountaineer]

If you have no insurance you can get screwed. Why not get another quote on the chimney? How much would rails be? Their intrusive because they have learned their lessons already, through people like us.

[agmantoo]

If you read the actuary tables that insurance company use to base their losses/payouts you will see that the odds are significantly in your favor. I am with RandB in his response. If you were unfortunate and lost the house to a catastrophy you would have enough money to get a replacement repo double wide in a short time. I do like to keep some liability insurance on the farm but that is cheap.

[Alice In TX/MO]

If the chimney needs repair, it's because it's dangerous in the condition it's in.

If the porch needs rails, it's because someone could fall off and sue you, and therefore, impact your insurance company.

As mentioned in a reply above, insurance companies have learned to be careful about choosing their clients. Just like you shop for a company, companies can shop for good risks. Your house isn't one according to their experience.

As for telling them off, the people who work in the field and on the phones are not the ones who make the corporate decisions. All you will do is vent your anger some poor dude or dudette trying to make a living.

Their restrictions are not personal, and it's not that they are being intrusive. It's business.

[Bearfootfarm]

Ive owned several homes and never have been told I had to do repairs before it could be insured. That makes me think that this house is in VERY bad shape. They have their rules. If you dont like the rules you dont have to buy the product

[Shepherd]

Just wanted to point out that Dave said $600 per year, not per month.

It's your choice of course if you want to insure your house or not, as long as you own it free and clear. If it's mortgaged I believe you're required to insure it.

I had to have a chimney re-mortared (as well as a couple other spots) on a brick house I owned a few years ago and it wasn't terribly costly. Get a couple more estimates and make sure whoever you pick (if that's your choice) has a good reputation. Rails on your front step won't cost much and it's a safety issue.

Just my 2 cents.

[bill not in oh]

Ditto on the rails - less than a hundred bucks of lumber and one afternoon and that's a non-issue. The chimney could be expensive, I suppose - never had one repointed. You might see if they'd let you install a fireplace insert and line the chimney with a stainless steel liner instead of having it re-mortered. The insert (a good one) will pay back in short course in fuel bill savings, especially if you have your own source of wood. Of course if it's in bad enough shape to be structurally unsound, you could end up having to have it rebuilt instead of repointed...

If your objective is to restore this structure, fix the problems they have identified and keep it insured - they have to be addressed sooner or later anyway. If you simply want to live there with the house in that condition, roll the dice, cancel the insurance and get a separate personal liability policy (you may have to fix the porch anyway). I'm thinkin' that if you have a 120 year old 'fixer upper' that the rails and chimney are probably the tip of the iceberg.

Here's one way to look at it. I costs on average about $125 per square foot to build a house from scratch. If the current house is 1600 square feet, it would cost $200,000 to replace it. That's the commitment the insurance company is making. To require you to fix the chimney to minimize their exposure to that fire hazard actually seems reasonable. If they did nothing with your $600/year other than put it under the mattress (of course we know that's not how it works), it would take 333 years for you to fund that account to the extent that it would be a simple wash for them. (of course in 300 years it will probably cost $2000 per square foot to replace the same 1600 square feet and the premiums would have increased to $10,000 / year).

[Mountaineer]

Another thing- insurance companies 'want' your business. They aren't completely out to get you personally. You could do some serious shopping around till you find a lax one I guess.

[CatsPaw]

Insurance is a racket. They USED to put racketeers in jail. Insurance companies drive politics the drive up costs and requirements to have insurance for everyone.

An insurance company will do anything and everything to NOT pay you when you need it. Any entity that instigates a law that requires you to have insurance, then dictates the terms underwhich you will benefit is a racketeering organization. This is all evidenced by the number of accident/injury lawyers you see advertising on t.v. (just recently saw a shipment of 40,000 accident/injury packages being shipped to a legal firm in a town of 35,000.)

I've had experience with the loopholes and "technical" terms that denied me payment. I'm also waiting for a job to start because [even after the state insurance commission ordered them to pay a claim] they are using delay tactics to avoid it.

Unfortunately is often times is a necessary evil. No insurance on such an investment could get serious real fast.

I'm the type that would gamble, try to live safely and work towards the improvements until such time as reasonable insurance could be had.

[ET1 SS]

I have owned six residential properties. I have never seen an insurance inspector. I did own one apartment building that was built in 1860. I still own an apartment building that was built in 1890. Now being apartment buildings, I do see a greater need for insurance. But still I have never been told that any property needed anything [well, not by an insurance company].

Insurance is a racket, though in our society it has become a needed racket.

Our current home does not have insurance. We have kind of debated the need. It is made of steel, so it can not burn down. It is not a rental, so no tenants. It has no mortgage, so like you no bank has any issue with it.

If you do not need insurance, and insurance companies are giving you grief, then I would seriously question the need for insurance.

[Weho Dave]

Thanks for your feedback everybody. That helps to get some other perspectives on the situation. I guess I can call some more contractors and see if I can get some more estimates but what really irks me is that it feels like some of my freedom is being taken away. I can get up my three steps just fine without rails. There should not be any strangers coming into my yard, much less up my steps. And I wouldn't expect a friend to sue me, so I don't really see the need for rails except to placate the insurance company. It does seem like these insurance inspectors are targeting my house in particular because it is old. They must think I want it to burn down so I can get a new house, but actually I love living in this house. I grew up in a modern home in the suburbs and came out here to get back to an older, simpler way of life. One day I found an insurance inspector snooping around my yard. I know they have been back without asking my permission. I wonder if I put up 'no trespassing' signs if it will keep them out. I don't like anybody coming out and snooping around my property. That bugs me too.

[susieM]

Houses do burn...I can tell you. Mine was vandalized and was burned, the insurance adjuster for the vandalism showed up as the firemen were fighting the flames and I said to him that it must be the record for the arrival of the adjuster (I was under high stress, at the time).

The point is, the place was insured, and there was (if miniscule), a pay-off.

What about tearing down the chimney altogether?

[Shadow]

If someone falls and hurts them selves an you have no insurance by the time the court and lawyers get through you will be homeless. The only way you can afford not to have insurance is to have nothing. Around here you can not buy just liabiltiy insurance you have to have property insurance to get it. Sure its a rip but only the homeless or the people that bet everyting nothing will happen (soon to be homeless) can do without. Me and the wife refuse to risk everything we worked all our lives for we will just pay.

[MELOC]

although it sounds wishy washy, i agree with most all of the above. yes it is a rip-off. yes it is good to have if someone gets hurt. the odds are against it, but if someone does get hurt, whatchagonnado?

i filed a claim once for tree damage to a front yard fence and the insurance company dropped the policy. swell huh? what a company. one claim in ten years and BAM. the next group of bozos came and nit-picked everything they could find. i was told i needed to paint the aluminum shed as it was rusty...think about that one. the shed was rusty on the surface in spots but it was old galvanized steel. the morans.

i currently have no insurance because i cannot afford to make repairs soon enough as they are extensive and i am unemployed. the hardest part is keeping people from tresspassing and getting hurt.

what you were told about the chimney probably has more to do with the structural integrity of the chimney. pointing the mortar is not going to fireproof the chimney as the inner lining does that job. that is what they should be checking...but they may have to get their hands dirty.

i don't know what to say about handrails. most of the handrail solutions i see in lowes are so flimsy they couldn't stop a fall anyway. but whatchagonnado? if they say you need it, you need it.

[MarleneS]

When I first read the title to your thread my first thought was "tell them the truth." After reading the thread my thoughts are ..."tell them the truth." Insurance is a contractual arrangement, and you pretty much get what you pay for. If you do not believe your home has a great enough value that you can be unconcerned about replacing or restoring it don't waste money on insurance.

Perhaps you would be better off talking to an independent insurance agency with the ability to find a policy which best suits your needs at this time? Perhaps there are policies available for restoration - that will cover everything but the use of the chimney until it is restored? Leaving damaged created by the chimney or use thereof uninsured? Trust me, there is insurance out there for you - the preimuim is just likely higher with the higher risk to the insuree.

Good luck,
Marlene

[Beeman]

Originally Posted by Weho Dave

Thanks for your feedback everybody. That helps to get some other perspectives on the situation. I guess I can call some more contractors and see if I can get some more estimates but what really irks me is that it feels like some of my freedom is being taken away. I can get up my three steps just fine without rails. There should not be any strangers coming into my yard, much less up my steps. And I wouldn't expect a friend to sue me, so I don't really see the need for rails except to placate the insurance company. It does seem like these insurance inspectors are targeting my house in particular because it is old. They must think I want it to burn down so I can get a new house, but actually I love living in this house. I grew up in a modern home in the suburbs and came out here to get back to an older, simpler way of life. One day I found an insurance inspector snooping around my yard. I know they have been back without asking my permission. I wonder if I put up 'no trespassing' signs if it will keep them out. I don't like anybody coming out and snooping around my property. That bugs me too.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose!" It's your house and your freedom. Unfortunately the older simpler way of life is long gone along with freedom as we value posessions. If you don't fear losing then you have your freedom.

[mtman]

we couldnt get insurence untill we sided the old house we are doing over re point the chimeny yourself its easy

[Ross]

Re pointing is not all that hard as said, replacing bricks can be another thing. It is a safety issue needing re pointing as either it could topple over or it could chill the liner causing a back draft or condensation that will rot out the liner. A new Stainless Steel DIY chimney is what 2k? A railing isn't expensive (if a bit ridicules) I say look at what you have and maybe you do need to act now while the repairs are cheaper than they will be later.

[palani]

We haven't had any homeowners insurance in well over 30 years here. As a result we have money available to fix things up when they break.

As to liability, post your property. The only duty you owe to trespassers is not to intentionally harm them. The only duty you owe to service people (milk men, paper delivery, postman) is to tell them about defects that could injure them. With invited guests you have to fix the defects. So don't invite guests period.

Not only is insurance a scam, it is commerce and maritime law. The concept started in this country in the 1840's when congress passed a law making ship owners responsible for the cargo they carried. Insurance is not a common law concept. It is gambling.