aversion to vets?

[suburbanite]

I realize that when you have livestock you can't go running to a veterinarian for every little nick and sniffle. But sometimes I'm seeing what sounds like some serious animal medical issues on the livestock threads, and a vet visit is rarely among the suggestions.

A representative example is today's post about a little wether who is failing to thrive. In humans that can be anything from being depressed from being picked on, to having a serious chronic illness like sprue, or something deadly like cancer. This wether has a chronic cough that the others in the herd may now have picked up; if that is true then not having a vet check earlier means the whole herd is impacted. Not to pick on that particular post, but just as an example that I think represents part of a pattern.

I just wondered what the seeming aversion to a professional consult is. Is it only the cost, or something else?

[a1cowmilker]

you have a good point, and I can get ticked at myself when I don't think to call the vet when I probably should.
BUT, I have a great example on why I have pause to not call the vet. My cat was weak and skinny last summer, I took her in, no idea why, so lets run some tests. How much will that cost? "it won't be more than $50-$60 dollars, well that was a lot but I said ok. Two days later, still have not idea what the problem was but the bill was $250.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They didn't mention the additional costs. I didn't say anything (I am kicking myself for sure) but I took my cat, and she held on another two months until I had had it and took her to another vet who put her down for $24.00.

That is why I do not think to call the vet.

[rambler]

Local vet bought out the other local vets.

Specialize in $400-600 bills to cat, dog, & horse owners.

Called them 2x for the cattle, both times charged $60-100 for the drive, got there & suggested the bovine wasn't worth the effort, make hamburger or shoot it. Second time didn't sound pleased to have to 'bother' with farm critters.

Next vet is 35 or so miles away.

So, what options do I have??????? What would you do?

Days gone by, an elder vet came out, brought along a young gal who was thinking of getting into vet, did a C-section on a breech cow I had, spent a lot of time, end of the day said, "I suppose the calf is worth $100 so that's the bill."

Those days are gone.

--->Paul

[suburbanite]

Rambler--get a group of like-minded farmers together and write a letter to one of your state Veterinary schools, asking them if they could alert their graduates of the problem in your area and the need for a large animal vet to compete with the monopolistic practice that is already there and that seems to specialize in household pets rather than livestock. You might attract a livestock vet--new and inexperienced, perhaps, but better than none. Or the school may decide to do some kind of monthly veterinary outreach to your area--a vet-mobile type thing for the senior students to do work under a professor's supervision.

Little lost if there's no response, a lot gained if you get yourself a newly-minted large animal vet who would otherwise not have considered setting up shop in your community.

[LisaInN.Idaho]

Where we live, the local vets encourage home care. There aren't a whole lot of vets and they are frequently swamped. Not to mention, they don't necessarily know a whole lot about goats, sheep, etc. When we have a sick sheep or lamb that we can't diagnose, we call the our 4H leader who happens to be the receptionist for the local vet. She actually knows more than he (which he would tell you himself) does about sheep health (which he would tell you himself).

[chamoisee]

Most vets won't see a goat, and the ones who do often know very little about them anyway.

[GrannyG]

When my goat was down and very ill, I called for the vet. He came out, gave her an injection, and that was it. Called him over and over, he told me it was cheaper for me to replace the animal than for him to come out here. The problem was, I loved this animal. So what did I do? I turned to all my friends on the web, and for months, I drug that goat in and out of the barn, did range of motion to her legs, gave her every vitamim anyone suggested, rocked her in my old rusty rocking chair, and prayed over her. Yes, the goat lived, took 4 months to get her up on her feet, and she still has a crooked little neck and a crooked little smile, and when the baby was born, we called him Pilly because we had stuffed so many pills in her. It is not that we don't want the vet to help us, it is that they are not interested.Our local vet just closed his doors, Said people would not pay their bills, although I always paid him on the spot.

[Dink]

I can honestly say I love my vet we have 2 one for small animals (my husbands)and my vet (large Animal)But what really flips my lid is it costs more for small animals vs horses.My husbands vet dont do emergency calls ever but my vet will on large or small.

[agmantoo]

With cattle it is a matter of economics to me. I attempt to determine the severity of the problem. IF it is something I can address, I do so promptly. If I cannot treat the problem and the animal is unfit for processing, I put it down. My best solution is to look after the animals on a daily basis and minimize any health issues prior to the problem arising. Clean fresh water, decent feed, pastures without trash metal and foreign debris, worming, minerals, mating for calving ease, timely culling, etc. go a long ways toward avoiding a need for a vet. Keeping the animals well is the best preventative all around.

[suburbanite]

It sounds like maybe part of the issue when calling a vet about an animal may be to state from the outset, "this animal is a pet," or "this animal is livestock worth about $X per head." In the first case, while you don't want this to indicate that money is no object, it does indicate that you are probably willing to pay $100 to save a $40 animal, though you might not be happy to cough up $400 (in my area $100 usually is more than enough to cover a visit from which an estimate of total cost to test and treat can be made).

In the second case, you have a couple more issues to discuss with the vet. The first is, "from what I can say on the phone, does it sound like this will endanger the rest of my herd if you don't come out?" and "Do you think it is likely based on what I've been able to say, that coming out to treat this animal will be cost-effective for both of us?" You are, after all, both businessmen in the world of animals, and so this is an appropriate conversation to have. You may have a goat worth $40 with a fever that will cost $60 to treat, but if its infectious and will wipe out your 10-goat herd or milk production or kid production for the flock if untreated, then saving that $40 goat becomes cost-effective up to about $400, because treating that one animal saves the herd.

Again, I don't have goats, I'm just thinking out loud about the situations you guys face, hoping I'll stumble across something useful to you.

[suburbanite]

Hm. The other thing that occurs to me is if the farmers can ask the nearest Vet school to offer a livestock first aid seminar for farmers a few times a year, either at the vet school, or moving around different regions of the state. This would empower you guys to do a better job at figuring out when to 'punt'.


I'm suggesting the vet school rather than your local vets because it sounds as though you're having a hard time finding livestock vets instead of pet vets, so your local folk may not have the expertise to hold a class like that.

[katlupe]

Our vet takes calls every morning at 8:30 am, so if you have a problem you can discuss it with him. He will send us prescription meds through UPS, or we can pick them up. He only comes out here once a year, but he's a farmer's vet, so he doesn't do office hours.

The other vets we can't really afford. Almost $100. to find out my dog has a ear infection. I can get the stuff from the other vet, and just pay for the meds. Or I can do it myself.

We worked on a horse farm where the vet came regularly, but in between everyone there learned to doctor the horses. And these were race horses. But the guy had been a farmer, and that's what farmers usually do. Unless it's something very serious.

Our horses are in top shape and the only time the vet was ever called was when we made an appointment for the shots. Otherwise, we doctor them ourselves. Dh had to take a nail out of his horse's foot when we first got her, he had gone riding and when he came back she was limping. He was alone here, and he called the vet and the vet talked him through it. Now we are talking about a very spirited horse here! But you know, I don't think she would have let the vet do it. She trusts dh, and he is able to doctor her when she has a problem. She'll come to him.

And no, we are not city people. But we treat our animals, horses included, as our family. And you can tell by the way they relate to us. I like it that way.

You have to learn to do what you can to take care of your own animals and family these days. The vets are just too expensive to call over every little thing.

katlupe

[skeeterhawk]

I have read a lot on HT about the high cost of vet care. A vet may very well have: 4 years at university, 4 years in vet school, then perhaps 2 years internship and a year in residency. Yes, they are paid for internship and residency but the salary is token, meaning it is below what is considered the poverty level. Then they have years and years paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans, the cost of equipment and supplies to set up their practices, plus the ovwerhead of building rental, office and tech employees, insurance, etc..., So when my vet gives me a bill of $200.oo to give my dog an annual exam, shots, heartwork check, and medication for an ear infection, I really have no complaints.

[Freeholder]

Originally Posted by skeeterhawk

I have read a lot on HT about the high cost of vet care. A vet may very well have: 4 years at university, 4 years in vet school, then perhaps 2 years internship and a year in residency. Yes, they are paid for internship and residency but the salary is token, meaning it is below what is considered the poverty level. Then they have years and years paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans, the cost of equipment and supplies to set up their practices, plus the ovwerhead of building rental, office and tech employees, insurance, etc..., So when my vet gives me a bill of $200.oo to give my dog an annual exam, shots, heartwork check, and medication for an ear infection, I really have no complaints.

I can certainly understand *why* the vets have to charge so much money, but few of us have the incomes to pay it. My animals, all of them, even my dog (soon to be dogs, as my puppy is coming home Sunday), are working animals kept to (at least in theory) reduce our food expenses or provide other benefits for *us*. I take the best care of them I can possibly manage, but a hundred dollars here and there for vet visits is just NOT in the budget, unless, as someone said above, the whole herd in endangered. I did take a doe to the vet this spring for help with a kidding problem -- I could have taken care of it myself if I'd been sure what was going on, but consider the money well spent for what I learned. The dogs and cats get their rabies shots from the vet because human safety is involved, and we can't legally give the rabies shots ourselves. Everything else, as much as possible, I take care of at home. I don't have an aversion to vets, but self-sufficiency is the goal here (as much as possible), and hiring someone to take care of your animals every little medical need isn't self-sufficient.

Kathleen

[Ross]

I've often encouraged callign a vet if only for educational pruposes and to think of it has herd health or flock health costs as a measure of prevention. You need a good vet client relationship to get some meds anyhow, so its really just common sence if youi can get a vet out! The bill is very much secondary here.

[suburbanite]

Skeeter, I think the vets charge reasonable prices for what they deliver, I just don't think that people are getting the most efficient, full benefit of them for their animals. There's got to be a better way to triage animals and figure out when a vet needs to be in the picture.

[manygoatsnmore]

I love my vets! My large animal (horse and goat) vet has been a source of information as well as taking good care of my animals in several emergencies. Her bills are very reasonable in view of the education and overhead she has. It's obvious that she cares for her animal clients and their human owners. My small animal vet is wonderful with my animals, as well, and is very laid back and easy to work with. She provides my rabies shots, checkups for the cats, and monitors the health of our aging dog. I know when I leave an animal in her care, that she and her staff (and her vet hubby) will provide the best for them, and the animals seem to know it as well.

Both vets know that I will provide proper follow-up care, will send me home with whatever meds are needed for that care, and will give advice over the phone as to whether each particular case can be treated at home or whether a visit is warranted. The lg animal vet will make a farm call, but it is cheaper to trailer to her, so we do that.

We do our own shots where possible, draw our own blood for lab tests, and do most of the home care, but we will not hesitate to call for advice or an appt. Anti-vet, no. Frugal homesteader, yes. Balancing the 2, difficult when you're starting out, easier with more experience and time.

[chamoisee]

I don't feel like you're understanding us here. Most vets are completely unwilling to work on a goat no matter how much you'll pay them. And then of the ones who will, most of those have an extremely limited knowledge of goats and might not be able to save her even after all the money you paid. Experienced goatkeepers tend to do most of their own vetting through necessity, not bnecause of any aversion to vets.

[Lizza]

I had a sick goat and I couldn't even get a vet on the phone, let alone someone to actually look at her. I finally tracked down a semi-retired vet and his secretary wife who flipped on the lights in their home office to get me a prescription to try and save her (it did!) but even he didn't actually examine her and I had to drive and get the meds (which I was grateful to do).

Another cattle owner I was talking to had a calf being born that was stuck. She finally tracked down a retired vet to talk to her but he wouldn't come out but said she could come pick up the calf puller if she wanted. She did but it was too late, she lost cow and calf.

I guess I'm just trying to say that if you own livestock long enough your realize pretty quick that help might not be coming, even if you have plenty of money (which most of us don't), and that you are going to need to take care of things yourself.

I also have to say that I called about an abcess on my cat and the vet wouldn't deal with it without putting the cat under, to the tune of $150. I just felt like it was too much money. I wrapped the cat in a towel, took an exacto knife (not sure who to spell that one), and did the job myself with a quick cut, draining, followed by perioxide and daily cleanings. I have to say that I'm happy I did it because I've had to do it again since then. It really wasn't that big of a deal. It's not that I begrudge the vet the money (my older daughter plans on becoming a large animal vet) but that if I can take care of it myself, I will. If I can't I'll call, simple as that. First up though is me taking care of it myself.

[kirsten]

Hi. I am one of those people who moved out to the country and took up raising livestock that in the beginning here, I do treat more like pets! But not so much pets, as "first tries- means a lot, I don't want to screw up." I consider the vet bills the price of my education. They had to pay for theirs and I have to pay for mine from them. I bring things to the vet that other stockmen never would. I keep what other stockmen would not becuase they just know but I don't know but my vet loves my socks off. I have cried with my vet! It has been a hard start with large livestock for us but my vet is patient and nice and he hugs me and cheers me up. He charges less for large animals than he does for small! He does not charge much at all to come out to my farm: $30. He answers his phone in the middle of the night. He said I could truck everyone of my lambs through his office to weigh them on his scale near breeding time for his advice on whether they have achieved breeding weight for their various types. He is so helpful, such a good Christian. He even had to do a little surgery to rewether a wether and only charged me $5 even though he thought it was going to be an easy one incision type deal. I go to the vet all the time! I think up reasons to go to the vet!

There is no one else to teach me. And I would not hazard guesses and fail. But once I see it, than I know it. I learn fast but I learn from the best. i don't trust anybody but my vet to teach me everything.

The only thing I notice is that vets tend to know nothing whatsoever about poultry so I do my own vetting there.

But my vet is really cool becuase once when I brought in a case of entropian, he said he would clip or suture and then I told him about a shot of pen. under the eye and he said the principle is sound so we tried it and it worked very well.

I guess I should really count my blessings but I never ever disliked vets or their bills. But if there were an extravangant bill that I could not pay, I think i would opt to put the animal down, pet or not.

maybe you guys don't live in agricultural areas? All the vets around here are large animal vets. But you are all right. The government is giving out money to people who will go to vet school and then locate to rural areas who are large animal vets. they say that 70% of vet students right now are female which is a problem in that females choose small animals for the most part. If you go to vet school now and promise to work for the the state as a vet, the state will pay a lot of your tuition. There is a huge call for vets right now and they are backing it up with money. Since I shall be moving close to a vet school, I might become one of these vets. Plus I shall have some knowledge of poultry and I'll be alone in that! I will be close to pipestone too, a huge sheep vet place. My current vet might even let me follow him around and help for fun.

I bring my vet presents. All books and all people say a good relationship with your vet is the first thing you need when taking on a livestock enterprise. maybe more of you should consider becoming vets. If I do so, I will be 31 when I start. kirsten