Pond management

[DrippingSprings]

I bought a small parcel of land three years ago. It has nice small 1/4 acre or so pond on it. The pond is about ten years old.

Well last year I notice a small clump of willow trees in one corner of the pond and a small clump of cattails as well that werent there the first couple years. Neither were much bigger than a 10 sq ft area each.

I went back today for the first time since early last year and find the willows have sprung up all around the pond and the cattails now occupy about 500 sq ft.

Im afraid if left unchecked it will overrun and ruin the pond.

What recourse do I have? Is there a way to eliminate these or am I just stuck with a ruined pond?

I know I could take a bank blade and cut the willows as they come up but that would be a neverending battle. The cattails I suppose would need a trackhoe to remove.

Is there a herbicide etc that will eliminate these things?????

[rambler]

Here in Minnesota, the state would basicly own & contol your pond. Cattails are a protected plant, wetlands are protected, etc. You would need to go through many permits & red tape to do anything...... Livestock would need to be fenced away, and so on....

Ignoring that, there is a water-safe version of glysophate (Roundup) that will kill plants in water. It is called Rodeo. Regular types of Roundup can't legally be sprayed onto water; the oils/ soaps in the mix are bad for fish/frogs/ etc. when applied directly to the water surface.

Rodeo is labeled for use on water.

--->Paul

[BJ]

You must get control before your problems gets worse...because the cattails will indeed take over and the trees will ruin your dam. We used a long tree trimming tool to cut off the cattails below the surface of the water....get in a boat and do some from the bank and in the water. Do it before they go to seed. Next tackle the willows cutting the small ones off below the water and the larger ones you can treat the stumps with Tordon..being careful not to get in the water if you have fish.

If legal in your state...buy a couple Grass Carp. They will eat any further sprouts of cattails and willows and will clean up all other grasses and weeds growing in your pond. Don't put more than is recommended by the Conservation Department. We put a couple in our pond a year ago...started out 7" long and they are now 14-20" long!!! They grow like crazy when they have lots to eat!!!

[Shadow]

I have the same problem and have drained the pond, calling around today to see about getting someone to clean out the mud and cattails the water roundup killed the cattails. I am leaving three willows and since I mow around the pond four times a year that takes care of any new ones.
Why in the world would anyone make cattails protected ? just wonder.

[BJ]

[QUOTE=Shadow]I have the same problem and have drained the pond, calling around today to see about getting someone to clean out the mud and cattails the water roundup killed the cattails. I am leaving three willows and since I mow around the pond four times a year that takes care of any new ones.

We hire a man who builds ponds to meet Conservation Guidelines. He's the only guy we have found who will clen an old pond...most won't. He always wants the water left in the pond and he uses it with his dozer to push out the pond sludge. Better find a good place for someone to put all that mud..if it's an old pond...there will be lots of it! Also most professionals who build ponds won't leave any trees as the roots will cause dam leakage eventually. Better to plant a tree off shore. Cattails are not protected in Missouri...thank goodness! The Grass Carp will eat them when they are just young sprouts....and the moss too!

[swollen tongue]

any wetland plants are protected by Federal Law in 50 states. this includes cattails. this is to preserve wetlands from developement and draining areas for developement. What I know is this law is enforced seriously on private and public lands.

[flutemandolin]

There is obviously a lot of misinformation regarding wetlands rules out there.

Wetland plants such as cattails are not Federally protected, nor are cattails a protected species in Minnesota. In fact, hybrid cattail is considered a nuisance in many areas.

Section 404 of the Clean Water Act regulates the discharge of fill into wetlands, not the control of wetland plants. Section 401 allows states to regulate wetland activities. In Minnesota there is the Wetland Conservation Act (1991). The following is language from the Act describing the scope:

Wetlands must not be drained, excavated, or filled wholly
or partially unless replaced by restoring or creating wetland
areas of at least equal public value. This chapter regulates
excavation in the permanently and semipermanently flooded areas
of type 3, 4, or 5 wetlands, and in all wetland types if
excavation includes filling or draining or results in conversion
to nonwetland.
This chapter does not prevent the use of the bed of
wetlands for pasture or cropland during dry periods if dikes,
ditches, tile lines, or buildings are not constructed and the
agricultural use does not result in the drainage of the
wetlands. This chapter does not prevent filling a wetland to
accommodate wheeled booms on irrigation devices if the fill does
not impede normal drainage. This chapter does not prevent
control of noxious weeds if the control does not drain or fill
the wetland.

Both Federal and State (MN) laws clearly regulate excavation and fill in wetlands, but do not specify protection to wetland plant species.

So, in a nutshell, excavation to remove cattails may be a regulated activity, but controlling cattails isn't; I would check with the local authorities, usually the Soil and Water Conservation District.

Rodeo, the formulation of Roundup approved for use in waterways, should work to control both cattails and willows. Normally I'm not a big fan of herbicide use, but in this case I think it would be the preferred alternative.

[agmantoo]

A point of interest. Here is the definiton of CAS# that are used on chemicals.

Definition

All chemicals have a CAS (Chemical Abstracts Service) registry number. Each and every chemical has a unique number.


Regular roundup and Rodeo have the same number. CAS#038641-94-0

What do you conclude from this?

[DrippingSprings]

I knew yall would be able to help me! Thanks a million!

Im going to go rent a trackhoe and dig all of the cattails out that I can reach and then Im going all the way around except the dam and dig the sides straight down about eight feet and back about ten feet hopefully to eliminate the willows. Then Im going to do all of the things advised here when it gets manageable after the hoe work.

[rambler]

If you were in Minnesota, this is what you would have to go through. Notice the _many_ types of permits & forums:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...s/DD6946l.html

Here is the permit you need to control cattails & other aquatic plants:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/permits/water/answers.html

Now yes, they say this only applies to public waters - but then, all wetlands have become public.... So........


Re: Roundup & Rodeo: They have the exact same active ingredient from Monsanto. It's the non-active parts, the soaps & oils, that are different. I'd expect them to have the same number because of the active ingredient, but different, legally binding, application/use instructions.

--->Paul

[flutemandolin]

rambler- the U of M extension link lists guidelines, not actual permits required. A lot of what they say in there is not written in the books as law.

And, not all wetlands are public waters. A public water is defined as anything 2 acres and over in an urban area, 10 acres or more in a rural area, that has been delineated on public waters maps. This would only include open water lakes or some deep marshes (Types 3,4 and 5 wetlands). But anything else is still regulated under WCA.

Hope this clears things up. I have been exposed to way too much of the rules and regs through work lately. As a landowner, I would be confused! And I am a landowner who has dug a pond, legally in non-wetland areas (old gravel pit). I do think MN law is way too restrictive on digging deep ponds for swimming, fish rearing, etc.

[rambler]

Several neighbors got letters when cutting road ditches for hay - could not disturb the cattails in the road ditches. Would get a fine if they ever did it again. Those are on easements of less than 2 acres on their property....

Neighbor wanted to dig out a cattail marsh for 5 years. Finally he found an official that said go ahead, so he did. Took 5 years tho, was all sorts of mumbo-jumbo during that 5 years. It is less than 2 acres on private ground in rural area. Then there was a big issue that he was supposed to haul away the dirt, haul in new dirt for the sides. Got kinda confusing - think everyone just walked away & let it be as it was - fenced it off from the livestock.

Permits are not 'suggestions' - depending upon your county & how aggressive they are at enforcing the rules set up by various county, state, & fedral regulators.

--->Paul

[jnap31]

Wow glad your not in MN drippingsprings seems like a bunch of garbage cant believe they control people getting rid of cattails in their own ponds unbelievable scratching MN off as a suitable place to ever live.

[Beltane]

Every year or two we have to go out and rake up the cattails around our pond. (I think we usually have a long rake type stick - my nice neighbor usually does it. )

One of the neat things about having a pond is that the 'pond dynamics' often change from year to year. For example...one year it looks like a bog is going to form on the pond and then next year the pond is much fully and there are fish everywhere.

[DrippingSprings]

Originally Posted by jnap31

Wow glad your not in MN drippingsprings seems like a bunch of garbage cant believe they control people getting rid of cattails in their own ponds unbelievable scratching MN off as a suitable place to ever live.

I guess Id be understanding of some of it if it involved a large tract and migratory birds etc but generally I dont see something as small as mine worthy of such scrutiny. Like you I had actually considered a move to there at one time. Maybe ol redneck bama aint so bad after all lol

[jnap31]

My sister is getting married to a guy from MN in DEC they are going to be going to grad school in Canada for awhile after that.

[fishhead]

Yeah here in MN farmers can't cut cattails in ditches but ATV riders can destroy them by the mile along with the blue flag.

When dealing with cattails or willows "a stitch in time saves nine" is absolutely true. They can be cut off below the surface as long as you also cut the root that connects them to the plants on the shoreline at the same time. Repeated cutting will kill them eventually. The same with willows.

If you think managing a small private pond is hard in MN try commercially raising fish in this state.

http://www.mndnrdocuments.org

Roundup will work fine and not kill fish if used properly. I and lots of others use it around here. Rural King has a version called Pond Master approved for ponds also. It will kill young willows and cattails. I watch for the cattails and when they come up, I just brush it on the leaves with a paintbrush. For larger areas, I would spray them. Usually fish kills result from spraying too much vegetation at one time. The spray doesn't kill fish, but the rotting vegetation takes the oxygen out of the water. I only spray 1/2 of the pond at a time.