Portable Generator Connection Question

[davidj]

I've read board posts by individuals that say you can turn off your main household breaker and connect your portable generator to your home's electrical system through the dryer outlet to provide power for your entire home in an emergency. This is with the understanding that you shouldn't overload your generator by having everything running at once. However, when I read websites by companies or organizations, they always say that you should never connect your portable generator directly to your home's electrical system without a licensed electrician rigging up an approved connection because of the danger of feeding power outside your home and hurting power workers or neighbors down the road.

My question is this: Can power really go outside my home if the main breaker is off? If there is a possibility of this happening, I wouldn't want to risk hurting someone else. Thanks.

[dennisjp]

As long as you have your main breaker off, the power will be retained to your home. Please make sure you disconnect the generator before cutting the main back on because you can indeed kill someone up the line.

Also, you will have a 30 or 40 amp breaker for your dryer outlet which will work as a breaker for the power you use from the generator so if you have a generator that puts out a minimum of 7,000 watts for a 30, or 9,500 for a 40 amp breaker you shouldn't be able to overload it.

[Jolly]

The first lineman working an outage who gets popped on a line with backfeed is going to cause the utility company to look for the nearest generator. If you have a hook-up such as described, whether or not you actually caused the problem , will probably result in you losing everything you own in civil court and possibly even criminal charges such as negligent homicide.

It's not worth it.

Either use extension cords with your generator, or preferably, install the proper transfer switch.

[bgak47]

Consult a liscensed electrician before you attempt this hook-up. It's most likely illegal not to.

[davidj]

Thanks folks for the quick responses. I can use extension cords for everything except my well pump. If it weren't for that, I would use extension cords.

My question is just as much for knowledge about electricity and wiring as it is for actual emergency usage. I'm still trying to learn as much as possible about electrical wiring. I haven't seen anyone here or elsewhere refute the principle that power cannot leave my home's system if the main breaker is off.

[Jolly]

Originally Posted by davidj

Thanks folks for the quick responses. I can use extension cords for everything except my well pump. If it weren't for that, I would use extension cords.

My question is just as much for knowledge about electricity and wiring as it is for actual emergency usage. I'm still trying to learn as much as possible about electrical wiring. I haven't seen anyone here or elsewhere refute the principle that power cannot leave my home's system if the main breaker is off.

I'm not refuting it. I'm just pointing out what I have seen happen.

You are going to be facing a very p.o.'d utility company that buys lawyers like produce - by the bushel. They will most certainly try to assign blame for the death or injury of their employee somewhere besides the company.

Secondly, they like to send a message. A very strong one.

In terms of risk management, what are the pluses and minuses of doing things the right way, or the wrong way? You do things the right way, you either suffer from some inconvenience, or you spend a little money. You do things the wrong way, you can lose everything you own and possible even face criminal charges.

It's your choice.

[Hammer4]

Utility workers are trained to ground the line before working on it anyhow, they always assume its hot.

You can hook it up that way, lots of folks do. The companies that sell generators won't recomend it due to their liability if you do it and do it incorrectly and something goes wrong.

Me, I put in a transfer switch so if I am not home and someone else is firing up the generator and hooking it up, it's idiot proof.

[moopups]

Your electrical system cannot bleed outside of the system if you remove the main cylinder fuses, usually located at the top of the circuit breakers in the fuse box. There is a 'T' shaped handle, pull it out, there is no way electricity can reenter the supply line at that point. Electricity can only then be applied to your separated house circuits. Period.

Remove the generator from the system before ever putting the cylinder fuses back in the system to prevent doing something dangerous. Those whom do not understand electrical systems need to avoid posting incorrect info. It is a very dangerous area to have incorrect info.

[rambler]

It's so easy to forget....... Sure, you meant to turn the main breaker off......

As far as I know it's illegal to do what you want to do everywhere in the USA.

The proper connection will automaticly throw a main disconnect at the same time it connects the generator. Then there is no possibility of forgetting.

It's possible to wire up electricity without a ground; or using the gorund instead of a nuetral. It 'works'.

But, it isn't safe, correct, or legal.

Same thing with this idea. It works, but it isn't right.

--->Paul

[rufus]

I am a Journeyman Industrial Electrician and I can tell you without a doubt that you will definately backfeed power through your Circuit Breaker Panel if you simply hook to your dryer outlet even with the main turned off or removed in the case of Fuses. The ONLY way to keep this from happening it to remove the Neutral (white wire) which is not switched in a common Breaker Box. The Common will carry the unballanced load and will still can give you quite a jolt if you touch the white wire even if say the light switch is turned off since it still carries current. I have set a small breaker pannel and wired up seperate circuits and installed twist-lock plugs on my well pump, furnace ect. A buddy of mine had installed by the electric company a device behind thier meter that has a plug that connects to a generator that act as the transfer switch and uses his regular panel like he would normally. Sure he has to load share (not turn everything on at once) but he didn't have to run any extra wires and with the cost of copper going up every day, that might be the way to go. If there is any interest, I will find out more particulars about the meter base set up but please, please, please don't hook into your dryer plug. The old ones don't even have a neutral lug so where would your 110 voltage come from? It would use the common coming into your panel from the Electric Company!

[mightybooboo]

Thank you Rufus for explaining why NOT to mess with the grid.
I cant understand why people with zero knowledge about the subject would do something so irresponsible.Especially when the answer is out there,dont do it.

Run extension cords from YOUR power to YOUR device.
Or have a QUALIFIED electrician wire it up correctly and LEGALLY.
Those are the ONLY 2 correct answers to the question posed.

Personally,I think its the world legal that gets all the cowboys in a huff when it comes to doing it right.Nobody is gonna tell me what to do,posture posture.

BooBoo

[Esteban29304]

So many people try different methods to get power out of their generator into the home. Many owners & lineman are hurt or killed every year. I PLAY IT SAFE. Heavy duty 120V extension cords, & you can make a heavy duty 220v line for the water pump. Don't overload gensets, keep up good maintenance on them, have a GOOD quality set, etc,, etc,, etc

DANGER_____DANGER______DANGER____

[mpillow]

LOL

How have we come so far being idiots??? Debt free at that

There's more than one way to skin a cat and FYI.....our friend is retired from the power company and has no problem w/ our setup...retired foreman.

My husband is a stickler for safety and yes there are two switches but still backfeeding w/ dryer socket and I mentioned the cord is homemade and super heavy duty....

When your power goes out during the winter in MAine for 11 days....you'll make due w/ what you got and use it to the best of your advantage....And the radio says another 5 days expected minimum.

Whine & debate all you want...I'll just get things done

[mightybooboo]

Originally Posted by mpillow

Whine & debate all you want...I'll just get things done

And if I kill or injure someone with an unsafe jury rigged system,so what,LOL.

Sure dont need to consider anyone else.Seems to be a rash of that attitude here lately,eh neighbor?

BooBoo

[mpillow]

Rash? yes its been ---- hot 'round here lately. Heat Rash.

Well the power off was killing my foster boy that needed his nebulizer...and the state never called a once to check on him.
Could we go to the hospital??----NO the roads were blocked w/ snapped power poles. Was the power coming back on soon? No.

Will I do it that way again if I have to....yep! attitude----if survival is in question yes...

I'm not wishy washy---and I dont really like to fight.

Its how we've done it and thats all I can tell you....your judgement and advice is as free as mine.

If I kill someone out of haste, selfishness or ignorance make sure you say "I told you so" if it makes you feel good

[Micahn]

Originally Posted by Jolly

I'm not refuting it. I'm just pointing out what I have seen happen.

You are going to be facing a very p.o.'d utility company that buys lawyers like produce - by the bushel. They will most certainly try to assign blame for the death or injury of their employee somewhere besides the company.

Secondly, they like to send a message. A very strong one.

In terms of risk management, what are the pluses and minuses of doing things the right way, or the wrong way? You do things the right way, you either suffer from some inconvenience, or you spend a little money. You do things the wrong way, you can lose everything you own and possible even face criminal charges.

It's your choice.

I agree that no one should be hooking one up that way without the right people doing it or at least the home owner knowing what they are doing HOWEVER. I live in S Florida where we get a lot of big storms. I can not count the people I know that has hooked a generator up to the house wiring themselves.
The power company knows that so when they come out to get the power back on they are very safe about it. They treat the power lines just like they would if they was live.
I and many I know have been asked to turn off the generators as well as unhook them so they can work on the power lines. Meaning they came to the house and said hey can you shut that off a little while so we can work on things.
I know of not a single person that has been sued over this sort of thing. I have never seen anything on the news or papers that has talked about anyone being sued over this sort of thing. Sure they all say do not do it or be careful if you do but that is it.
Now with all that said anyone that just hooked up the their home lines without knowing what they are doing is stupid. But it is not all that hard to learn how to do things the right way so it is safe.

[ace admirer]

perhaps in some areas the neutral is floating,,,,but in ours the neutral is earth grounded at, 1. the customers breaker box. 2. at the meter base 3. at the centertap transformer pole. there is no way that power would be able to flow past an opened main breaker not even an unbalanced load unless three earth grounds were to fail. again, not saying itn is the right way or safe (because of forgetfullness)

but lets face it.....i bet that 70 % of all generators over 4k are being back fed.

[scott]

rufus .... are you out of 82 ???

[Terri]

Is there any LEGAL way opf running the thermostat off of a generator?

We have gas heat, but the thermostat is electric!

[Jolly]

Originally Posted by scott

rufus .... are you out of 82 ???

Fixin to have an IBEW meetin'?