H2Ooooo my!

[wy0mn]

As I posted the other day, I'm in the process of purchasing some very remote property.
Drilling a well will be cost prohibitive for some time to come.
How many readers are now, or have in the past, had to haul water to their homestead, house & livestock?
How was it rendered potable if from a lake/stream? I have some ideas of my own but am curious to see how others have accomplished it.
I have a beaut of a site, nice southern slope to plant a house into. Lots of sun & wind for power production. Just no readily available water.
Cheers
Lex

[kasilofhome]

I hated it, It was hard. We had no heat and could only get enough for for quick use. it would freeze and be useless and the container. We only got water mainly for the dog and cat we drank when we went out to the gas station or any place. Cooking change, cleaning changed. every thing changed.

[Freeholder]

We hauled water from my Dad's place a mile away when we lived in Tok, AK for almost four years. It wasn't too big of a nuisance -- we hauled the water in five gallon jerry cans usually, and stored it in a 55 gallon barrel just inside the front door. The barrel had a wooden lid on it -- one side hinged and could be lifted up. The biggest hassle was that we weren't properly set up for doing laundry by hand, so it would pile up (in the tiny cabin) until once a month we took it all to town to the laundromat. If I live without electricity and running water again, I will make a place for a set of laundry tubs. I have a hand-cranked wringer (from Lehmen's catalog), and even a couple of scrub boards.

Dishes are easy without running water -- you heat the water on the stove, or use solar, and fill the sinks (plumb the drains in, even if you don't have running water). Baths are a little more hassle. I would go ahead and put in a tub with a drain. Then what we've done is have a container of hot water, and one of cold. Squat in the tub, and use a third container to mix the hot and cold water to the right temperature while you bathe. Make sure your bathing area is well-heated. In our house in NH, the bathroom was at the very back of the house, while the wood stove was in the front, in the living room. The stove really only heated the front part of the house, so baths were cold, even with plenty of hot water.

Composting toilets work just fine, especially the sawdust toilet. You get little or no odor, and they are quite inexpensive.

You won't have to haul so much water if you design your house and outbuildings to collect rain water. You might still want to haul drinking water, but even in a dry region, with sufficient roof area you can collect enough water for most other uses. Plan to use graywater to irrigate fruit trees or something, so nothing is wasted.

Kathleen

[wy0mn]

BlueJuniperFarm
Well thought out it seems.
You've given me back most of the things I've been considering.
Except the rain collection, lol. We've maybe had 1" since early April. This is high desert. Guttering usually doesn't survive the first heavy snowfall anyway.
What I thought of doing is having a tank on the back of the truck with a 12VDC pump & hoses.
I cross the Laramie river about a mile from my place. I thought I'd simply toss in a hose & flip a switch.
A inclosed/insulated tank can gravity feed the house & stock.
Sink & tub drains I'd planned anyway.
But to sterilize, heat it to sterility with solar? Add bleach?
Thanks
Lex

[palani]

Would a dew pond work in your area? They are supposed to be able to produce water in the 1,000's of gallons depending on size.

[bill not in oh]

Here's a couple of things you might consider.

http://www.air-zone.com/water.html

http://oemagazine.com/newscast/2005/...ewscast01.html

I know ozone is a proven technology and the water treatment units are much more affordable than even seven or eight years ago and I don't think the maintenence is unreasonable. No idea how much elec. it takes to power one.

The UV LED technology I'm not familiar with, but I sort of liked the idea of:

"The self-sustaining technology will eliminate the need for any outside energy force to operate the device."

[MarleneS]

My neice and family purchased a 1500 tank, put it under a shed roof, and a member of the volunteer fire department fills it up twice a month. It's hooked up to their house just like regular water service would be if it were available to them. I don't think it's costing much more then the Water Service Company. They do purchase drinking/cooking water separately.

Marlene

[ellebeaux]

You might want to check into the legality of taking water from the river. The West has some pretty convoluted water rights laws. From my years spent in Montana, I understood that it was illegal to even collect rainwater unless you owned the rights to do so!

Good luck with the homestead, I miss it out there,

Beaux

[turtlehead]

Not only will you have to sterilize that water, you'll need to remove sediment and toxins.

[Shadow]

Get the water system first and then build your homestead. Hauling water is not cost effective especially if you have animals. I don't have the figures in front of me but horses drink an unbelivable amount of water also cows. It all adds up and you just can not haul that much water with gas at $3 a gallon We have a spring and in a drought we do not have the water to use to water plants and the garden. We have a large creek here on the farm and right now we are pouring concrete curbs in the garden and I haul the water on the tractor. Its almost a mile round trip and I have figured the cost at about $ 1 for fuel and probably $2 for wear and tear on the tractor,. Takes me about 45 min to make the trip and dip up the water. It is not cost effective. We do not water the garden its too big and just not possible.
Also if you ever want to or have to sell not haveing water will kill most sales.,

[Buffy in Dallas]

Just a few websites I found that might give you ideas.

http://www.keyline.com.au/

http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/

http://www.i4at.org/surv/sstill.htm

http://www.epsea.org/stills.html

http://www.motherearthnews.com/libra...r_Solar_Stills

[Maura]

In areas around here where one cannot get water, containers are used. 500 gallons or more. A company hauls it to you as often as you need it. You can keep the container in the garage or other utility area. A front loading washing machine, low water toilet, and quick showers. Digging a natural type pond would help, you can give it to livestock, swim in it, fish in it, and it serves as a large water reservoir if there should ever be a fire.

[DW]

Maybe someone else will remember this story...I think it was in countryside Mag and it might have even been in WY. The people had a large plastic tank somewhat buried (so it would not freeze) and had water delivered. (I might even look thru a few old magazines) We packed drinking water for quite a few years but it wasn't too bad. I went to a machine in the same town where I worked and bought good water for $.25/gal. It took some time but was worth it. I do remember how happy I was the day we got GOOD water!

[donsgal]

Originally Posted by wy0mn

As I posted the other day, I'm in the process of purchasing some very remote property.
Drilling a well will be cost prohibitive for some time to come.
How many readers are now, or have in the past, had to haul water to their homestead, house & livestock?
How was it rendered potable if from a lake/stream? I have some ideas of my own but am curious to see how others have accomplished it.
I have a beaut of a site, nice southern slope to plant a house into. Lots of sun & wind for power production. Just no readily available water.
Cheers
Lex

Check out "solar distiller" on the internet. That, coupled with a good water catchment system for when it rains, might solve most of your problems.

donsgal

[SolarGary]

Hi,
I think rain water harvesting from your roof is practical.
We stayed in an Earthship in Taos for a few days that was self-sufficient in water with what they captured on the roof and stored in a cistern that was integrated witht he house. They only get 8 inches of rain a year in Taos.
Part of the way they manage this is not using as much water, and recycling water. For example, they use treated grey water for flushing toilets.

They publish a good book about the whole water system:
"Water From the Sky", M. Reynolds -- its available on the www.EarthShip.org website. Even if you don't care for the look of Earthships, the water book is very good, and can be used with other types of construction.
One of the things they emphasize is the the roof has to be planned for water catchment, both the roof material and the layout -- so you need to work this out before you build the house.

This is a good one:
http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/publicat...s/RainHarv.pdf

This is the Taos place I mentioned above:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects...aterSystem.htm


Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com

[wy0mn]

I thank you all.
You've given me plenty of things to ponder and numerous websites to peruse.
ELLEBEAUX, I was informed today that tapping the river, in any amount, is illegal. You were right.
If I were an industry I could get away with it, lol.
I love constructive ideas, not a single troll sighting.
PALANI, I gotta check out dew ponds, alien to me.
Thank you all again.
Lex

[ellebeaux]

Originally Posted by wy0mn

I thank you all.
You've given me plenty of things to ponder and numerous websites to peruse.
ELLEBEAUX, I was informed today that tapping the river, in any amount, is illegal. You were right.
If I were an industry I could get away with it, lol.
I love constructive ideas, not a single troll sighting.
PALANI, I gotta check out dew ponds, alien to me.
Thank you all again.
Lex

Well, do let us know what you figure out to make it work for you - who knows, maybe I'll come out and get some land of my own!!

Great luck,

Beaux

[sisterpine]

I know you have more than enough advice and ideas but cant resist telling you our little story. We built our home, assuming we would have a well when we could afford one. Our nearest neighbors a mile away have a nice little well at 15 gal per minute and 60 feet deep. so we thought, no problem! we finally saved up enough money and got a small mortgage so we could afford a well. because i was concerned that maybe we would not find water i even hired a guy who does electrosismic (cant spell it) water locating. paid him 1200 bucks and he said our water is pretty deep 300 feet or so but there is enough there to drill a well. so we had a reputable well driller drill where he suggested and at 400 feet we still had no water and had run out of spending money. the well driller himself said at 300 feet that we should not continue as he was not seeing any changes but we asked him to continue anyway. end of the story is that we ended up with an 8000.00 dry hole of a well in the front yard! i will always rember the day i just sat there in the mud and sobbed. per the driller the well hole would fill up with water slowly and we maybe could pump that into a holding tank. again we had to save up some more money for the casing and pump and tanks etc. before we could save up quite enough we had a small earthquake which damaged our well bore. we found we could only go down with pipe for 170 of the 400 feet! but there is water in there- we are able to get about 200 gal per day which we pump into holding tanks in the utility room. surely not enough for livestock but plenty for us, laundry and a small garden. the water is good and our well hole is just the same as a slow spring that builds up over 24 hours.

we also hauled all of our water for 6 years. hauled it in plastic 55 gal drums that we cut the tops out of. had one barrel upstairs in the loft and two for storage down stairs. pumped from the back of the truck barrels to the inside barrels to the upstairs barrels using a pump mounted on a cordless drill. Took some time but worked well. we used a gravity system from the loft into the kitchen sink and shower, even put a little 5 gal tank upstairs so we could heat bath water on the wood stove and then haul it up to the tank and take a reg shower. in the winter we hauled the water up our mountain in 6 gal containers on a sled behind the snowmobiles. when winter we got water from the ranch 7 miles away where we parked our vehicles. Moral of the story , is that all things are possible given strength and determination and a bit of blessing from above! sis

almost forgot-we also caught rainwater in 55 gal plastic drums (our area gets about 12 inches of precip a year but most is in form of snow) we caught it filtered it and drank it, with a filter for 30 bucks from walmart, worked good.

[arcticpixie]

We have lived with hauled water for 2 years now, not fun but not going to kill you either.

What we do:

Water is hauled in 6 gal jugs with spouts. They are made of green plastic to keep down on algae growth and are manufactured just for water. They can be found at most walmart like stores in the camping section, or any store with a camping section. The tall skinny ones are easier to carry than the short round ones because the round ones push your arms too far away from your body, throwing you off center. You will need an even number of jugs and will always fill them in pairs. Odd numbered jugs means you will have to carry one jug by itself, this throws you off center and is hard on the body. Remember, water weighs around 8 lbs per gallon.

Hauling water is pretty common around here, we get ours from a filling station similar to a gas station but just for water. It can cost anywhere from a penny to 25 cents per gallon, depending on source. There is also free spring water available 20 miles up the road, but of questionable quality in the spring during break up. Filling at neighbors, friends etc is also a good plan. Filling jugs from surface water sources is doable as long as it’s treated in some way. This reduces your cost since you only have to treat water that will be used for cooking, drinking and washing dishes. Since I couldn’t be more precise than this source: http://www.doh.wa.gov/EHP/dw/Publica...ter_102802.pdf gives good info on making surface water safe to drink. Try to get water from deep, moving sources. Still shallow ponds and pools are rife with growing ickys. To remove sediment and other unappealing things for drinking and cooking, try running it through a Brita water pitcher or similar after it has been treated by boiling or bleach. Since you can't tap your river maybe there are other surface locations.

Ok, now you’ve got your water home. You want to store it in a cool dark place. Cold water tastes better and light causes things to ‘grow’. For daily dispensing we use a 5 gallon water dispenser like you see them using at sports games and the like. It’s round and has a spigot on the front. You will want to get the kind that has the push button on top of the spigot, not the turn style or the kind you push in horizontally. Both the latter are extremely difficult to operate one handed while the other hand holds the object to be filled. Ours is the blue one here: http://contractorstools.com/rubberma...l#watercoolers These can be found at walmart, Home Depot, Lowes etc.

On a larger scale, and what we plan on doing this fall, one can bury a water tank and have water delivered or haul it in the back of a pickup in a 300-500 gallon water tank designed for this purpose. 12v pump moves the water to the holding tank and it is drawn into the home via a standard surface pump and pressure system, or a ‘well house’ can be constructed over the tank and a pitcher pump installed. SOP here in the North: http://www.uaf.edu/ces/publications/.../HCM-04950.pdf

Operating with small scale hauled water as we do now has it’s draw backs. Hand washing isn’t as frequent as it should be, laundry is done at the laundry mat in winter and one must plan ahead at all times. But, if it can be done with a family of 5 100 miles south of the Arctic circle, I’m sure you’ll be able to pull it off just fine!

Terribly long for a first post, I know. Sorry

[wy0mn]

We are definately getting the land. Closing date is the 31st.
Financing thru the realtor, bank will only finance 60% of undeveloped property.
I'll have a well drilled "some day", but for now I'll be hauling. Either from Laramie, where I work, or bootlegged from the river. (Some laws are simply stupid.)
My wife is a trained ecologist, & who better to monitor the health of a raparian eco-system than someone who actually uses the water?

ArcticPixie, great post! No need to apologise for the length. I love reading post by people who are "out there" truly living life, giving it 110%.

Lex & Karen
somewhere on the prairie