Think NAIS is Bad?? Heard about NASS yet??

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

Recieved a "survey" from USDA, National Agricultural Statistics Service in the mail today with a 3 page survey that is MANDATORY to return or be fined under Title 7, Chap 55, Section 2204G ofthe USC.

Survey is the 2006 Agricultural Identification Survey and it wants to much much more sensitive info than NAIS. They want to know all of the plants and or animals you currently raise and all that you have raised in thepast 5 years. Wants to know numbers of laborers you have employed and how much you paid them. Wants to know gross sales of each Ag item I sold in the last year. Wants to know my race, name, address, phone number, farm name, sex, when I began farming this location and if sold to whom sold.

This is BULL CRAP. Info can be found at www.usda.gov/nass/

OF COURSE NONE OF THIS INFORMATION WILL BE MADE PUBLIC OR COMPROMISED - Sure - I'm a Disabled VET, I know better!!!!

[BaronsMom]

Are you new to farming?

This isn't anything new - USDA has gathered ag statistics for years.

The first census was done in 1840...

If you are unfamiliar with the Ag statistics, there is a bit of history on the site to help folks out...it is on the kids pages, but it is interesting:

http://www.nass.usda.gov/Education_&...y_1.html#first

I have actually used the statistics when I was teaching in the classroom and as I have prepared reports - there is no personal information, but it is very helpful when getting an overall picture of agriculture in the US.

[ladycat]

When my mother and step father were farming, they got those every year. My mother filled them out and sent them in every year. After my step father died, she sent that last one in saying they were no longer farming on this property. No more have arrived.

[Snowdancer]

I got them regularly while I was farming. When I left the farm in 2004, I sent them a cert. letter that I was no longer farming and I haven't heard from them or recieved another survey since.

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

First time I have ever recieved this. Won't return it - not now, not later.

If you aren't upset about this then why be upset about NAIS??

NAIS' intrusion is MILD by comparison. Personal data is personal data no matter the group collecting it.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by YuccaFlatsRanch

First time I have ever recieved this. Won't return it - not now, not later.

If you aren't upset about this then why be upset about NAIS??

NAIS' intrusion is MILD by comparison. Personal data is personal data no matter the group collecting it.

Collecting data is far different than trying to control us.

NASS = gathering statistics to see how much acerage is getting planted to various crops, how many animals are being slaughtered, etc. The USDA has been collecting data this way for 100 years.

NAIS = telling us what we can do and how we can do it. NAIS means the end of America's freedom that millions of soldiers have fought for.

[BaronsMom]

Ag statistics process is innocuous. My parents have also filled it out for years, their parents before them.

And as someone who has used it as a resource to educate children about agriculture, I've found it extremely beneficial and I should be thanking those who helped contribute to this valuable resource.

This isn't the same as NAIS which is identifying and tracking - whole different USDA animal....

Hope that helps you breathe a bit easier

[caballoviejo]

I agree with you Yucca. Got one once and just threw it away.

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

"This isn't the same as NAIS which is identifying and tracking - whole different USDA animal...."

I guess I'm confused how part of USDA is OK to send personal info to and the other not OK.......It seems to me that -

NAIS is collecting data about your animals and your premisis and storing it in a database where it can and most likely will be misused.

NASS and Ag census is about collecting data about your premisis, your animals, your plants, your Ag business, and worst of all about YOU and storing it in a database where it will most likely be misused.

PLEASE EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY IF NEITHER IS VOLUNTARY??

And if they have the info in NASS, why do they need NAIS??

Also, since I have not sold animals or plants on a commercial basis - only to private individuals, and I have not registered my premisis, how have they gotten my name on their list to send me a NASS Survey??

[electronrider]

Just to be safe, wrap your head in a tinfoil hat, build a bunker, and wait for the commies to arrive. It's a survey, sheesh.

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

Have you seen the survey and the questions they are asking?? Talk about having your head in the sand. Please explain the difference about why one database is acceptable and the other not -especially if they contain essentially the same info. Why is USDA trustworthy on one hand and not on the other. Even better, explain how the Government is trustworthy on anything.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by YuccaFlatsRanch

Have you seen the survey and the questions they are asking?? Talk about having your head in the sand. Please explain the difference about why one database is acceptable and the other not -especially if they contain essentially the same info. Why is USDA trustworthy on one hand and not on the other. Even better, explain how the Government is trustworthy on anything.

As someone else mentioned, this has been around for 60+ years. Thought _everyone_ had seen those forms. Helped dad fill them out back when I was 10 years old. You mentioned having your head in the sand.... I don't mean to be flipant or talking down to you at all, but - that kinda fits you here????

What's the big deal????

With computers, everyone is into data collection. Work for someone, fill out forms. Run a business, fill out forms. Live in a dwelling, fill out forms every decade or 2. Farm, and you fill out forms.

I don't get the reaction to NAIS either - such govt things have been around for a long time. Just how govt it. I was really surprised at the reactoin to that too!

NAIS is more intrusive, and I can see horse folks being opposed to it. I can actually see horses getting out of NAIS, would think they would push hard enough for that. And it won't offer any benifit compared to the cost of the program, so I understand opposition to it. Just was amazed at the strength of the opposition.

That little survey you got is no big deal.

I would assume you've heard of COOL too? That is another one coming.

--->Paul

[seedspreader]

In my personal, not-very-humble opinion, I don't consider anything that carries fines and jail time a "survey" if you don't complete it.

[jnap31]

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

In my personal, not-very-humble opinion, I don't consider anything that carries fines and jail time a "survey" if you don't complete it.

Amen and like yuccaflats said all the info collected for NAIS and that survey is going to the same place, I never heard of surveys like that seems more like a survey out of cuba or communist Russia. I promise you I will never send in any such survey mine must have got lost in the mail. Wonder if they carried jail sentences for not filling them out 100 years ago?

[Laura]

I got those surveys after filing for farm exemption on our taxes. I wrote "no longer farming" on them and sent them back. I quit using farm exemption on my taxes. Every government benefit has strings attached so I pay my taxes and mind my own business.

[Sasha]

You mentioned having your head in the sand.... I don't mean to be flipant or talking down to you at all, but - that kinda fits you here????

I'd never heard of them either. Not having grown up on a farm, why would I have?

In my personal, not-very-humble opinion, I don't consider anything that carries fines and jail time a "survey" if you don't complete it.

I agree and I wouldn't fill it out either if I were you, Yucca. I figure the government operates on a strict need-to-know basis with me, so I'll assume that same secretiveness with them.

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

"As someone else mentioned, this has been around for 60+ years."

Something being around for a long time does not make it either RIGHT or SAFE, or any less intrusive. If it comes from the rear end of a dog and smells like dog poo its probably dog poo.

Have you heard about the recent Vet Administration "inadvertant loss" of the personal data on about 30 million veterans. Just happened to have the disk missused and then stolen and the names, SSN's, addresses, phone numbers, and disability codes for all those vets compromised in the largest compromise in government history. 2 major lawsuits going on that COULD cost the government $34 BILLION in compensation to the vets concerned. 2 people have been fired and another has resigned over the missuse. Doesn't protect the Vets from identity fraud though.

I am one of those vets -explain please why I should trust the government with any of my info in the past, the present or the future???

[Sasha]

Hey Yucca, how do you find out that you're one of those whose stuff was stolen? I'm wondering if my husband's stuff was on there. He was in Gulf War 1.

I'm sorry that happened to you and I don't think you should trust the government at all.

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

If your husband has any was evaluated for a disability by VA or has a VA disability and/or was one of a bunch of active duty members his info was stolen. Contact Disabled American Veterans (www.dav.org) for the latest info.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by YuccaFlatsRanch

I am one of those vets -explain please why I should trust the government with any of my info in the past, the present or the future???

File income taxes once a year???? That has your SS# on it too.

Income taxes have been around a long time too.

Just how it is. Not saying anyone should _like_ it. Protest, be opposed, etc.

I'm just surprised that people are surprised about these things. They have been discussed for a long time, part of life for many people for many many years.

It's not some new, secret, thing out to get you individually.

We live in a society, and that comes with good & bad stuff.

Have to deal with that as best we can.

An ag survey is really, really, really small potatoes in the big picture. NAIS will be more intrusive. As will COOL.

However you feel is up to you, not trying to put your thoughts down.

Some folks don't trust banks & keep money in the Mason jar. Some folks don't trust credit cards. Me, I don't trust Paypal - tho I've never used it.....

We all have our personal issues.

Me, I don't see any issue at all with the ag survey.

If you live in the regular ag areas, you are mapped out for your crops every year anyhow with the arial photos, computer tells them how many acres, what the wetlands spots & Highly Eroadable lands are, etc. Where you can and cannot tile, and so on.

A paper survey in the mail every few years is just small potatoes it would seem.

No one around here is mentioning COOL????? Country Of Origin Labeling.

These programs are discussed by all the ag places, orginizations, ag extensions, farm papers, etc. If you are in ag, the info has been out there for some time.

Again, oppose them all if you wish, no problem there.

There is a whole lot more ag/govt you must not be aware of, which I would consider common knowledge to anyone in farming. You might want to look around some. You will be surprised.

In all of that, the paper survey you got is a pretty minor thing. IMHO

--->Paul