(Sort of) Legal Help Needed

[cc-rider]

To try to condense....

My grandmother, unbeknownst to anyone else, co-signed a mobile home loan for my daughter and SIL several years ago. For some reason, she had HER name put on the title, too.

Years fly by, trailer loan is paid off, everything is hunky-dory.

Three years ago, in frail health, some fly-by-night shyster talks my grandmother into putting everything she owns into a trust (and charging big bucks to do it). She puts all the bank accounts, the house, etc., into the trust, leaving it all to her two children. Then she dies 3 months later.

We didn't probate anything because everything was in a trust. Everything was disposed of according to the trust. There was a clause that said that anything OUTSIDE of the trust was to be disposed of according to the will (and I was the executor of the will). But there wasn't anything outside of the trust (that we knew of). Her house was sold by the two trustees and that went fine.

Now, three years after her death, my daughter is trying to sell the trailer and it surfaces that my grandmother's name is on the title. The title office won't transfer the title to a new owner until we can somehow sign off Grandma's rights.

They said we have to open up the case again and have things probated...at a cost of a lawyer and such. I hate for the kids to have to do that...they have NO money as it is!

Any ideas?????? How would you transfer a car if the owner was dead? Same thing, I would think!

Thanks!

[frogmammy]

Knowing the state this takes place in would help.

Mon

[Shadow]

Afraid you will have to do it their way. Cost may exceed the value of the trailler. The grandmother was smarter than most she put her name on the morgage and to protect herself she also put it on the title, smart lady. Problem everyone forgot she was on the title and now it has to be corrected legaly. If she was alive it would not be a problem, she could just sign. If her will had been probated the executor could probably have it done.

[MarleneS]

You really need a lawyer on this one.

[cc-rider]

Originally Posted by frogmammy

Knowing the state this takes place in would help.

Mon

Sorry! I hate it when other people do that. Ohio.

Yeah, Marlene, I was afraid of that.

If I would have known Grandma had done this, we would have taken care of it LONG ago. Guess she forgot about it, too.

[MorrisonCorner]

Now wait a sec... my grandfather died with a similar issue. Only in his case he'd forgotten to put my grandmother's name on the title of his car. When she went to get rid of the car she couldn't.

There is a form she had to file with the court to which she had to file a series of other forms all signed by my grandfather's potential beneficiaries giving her clear title to the car (in other words, saying they didn't challenge her right to the car). It was just a form.. you can probably get it at your local courthouse. But you then have to get it signed and the signatures may need to be notorized, but everyone who might have stood to benefit from her estate: parents (I presume that's not an issue), sibblings, children, and grandchildren (assuming they are of age)... at least in my state.

Once she filed that paperwork the court rubberstamped the whole thing, giving her title to the car.

[donsgal]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

To try to condense....

My grandmother, unbeknownst to anyone else, co-signed a mobile home loan for my daughter and SIL several years ago. For some reason, she had HER name put on the title, too.

Years fly by, trailer loan is paid off, everything is hunky-dory.

Three years ago, in frail health, some fly-by-night shyster talks my grandmother into putting everything she owns into a trust (and charging big bucks to do it). She puts all the bank accounts, the house, etc., into the trust, leaving it all to her two children. Then she dies 3 months later.

We didn't probate anything because everything was in a trust. Everything was disposed of according to the trust. There was a clause that said that anything OUTSIDE of the trust was to be disposed of according to the will (and I was the executor of the will). But there wasn't anything outside of the trust (that we knew of). Her house was sold by the two trustees and that went fine.

Now, three years after her death, my daughter is trying to sell the trailer and it surfaces that my grandmother's name is on the title. The title office won't transfer the title to a new owner until we can somehow sign off Grandma's rights.

They said we have to open up the case again and have things probated...at a cost of a lawyer and such. I hate for the kids to have to do that...they have NO money as it is!

Any ideas?????? How would you transfer a car if the owner was dead? Same thing, I would think!

Thanks!

My father died last year and my father and my mother's name were both on the automobile title. All my mother had to do was produce a death certificate and his name was taken off. bingo. just like that.

I don't know what state you live in and what the laws are, but it sounds like they are making it far more complicated than it should be. Make sure you call the STATE OFFICE of the licensing bureau. Don't count on local yahoos knowing anything about anything.

donsgal

[MaryNY]

As Morrison Corner already said, there probably is an easy way to resolve the problem, but you will probably need a lawyer to do it. I believe here in NY the way it would be handled is through a "Voluntary Administration" of the estate. This is available here for all estate under $10,000 - which I assume would be the current value of her one-third interest in the mobile home. Someone who decides to serve as the "voluntary administrator" goes to a lawyer and gets a few papers drawn up and gets the title of "voluntary administrator" and is then able to sign papers, etc. just as an executor would -- he/she signs the papers to transfer the mobile home -- and technically should collect one-third of the value at the sale, and distribute it where it needs to be distributed (surviving children etc.) -- hopefully an attorney in your area can advise you on how best to tackle that little wrinkle -- getting all the others to sign off or something, perhaps. You may well have to jump through a few legal hoops, but there certainly is/should be a "short" version of the process that you can use, which should not cost a great deal -- and which, incidentally, should be paid for out of the proceeds of the estate. Talk to a lawyer (just a "consultation" shouldn't cost much, for starters) and good luck!

MaryNY

[cc-rider]

I'm sure my mother and my uncle (the two trustees and ONLY beneficiaries of the trust) would sign off if there was such a form and I could find them!

At the sale of the trailer, I wouldn't have "grandma" collect 1/3 because she never PAID for the trailer. She co-signed and never had to pay, so I don't think that is an issue.

The legal fees are the issue, because my mother and uncle would NOT pay to get this off the books...they probably couldn't care less. The trust was "closed". They got their money three years ago (and it is probably long gone). In fact, I'm not even sure where my mother lives anymore.

TMI. Sorry.

I might just call the State department, though, to get another view. I'll see if I can find them......

Thanks for your help!

Chris

[tiffnzacsmom]

You should be able to just provide a death certificate to the notary doing the title transfer. Is this still considered a mobile home and simply titled or is it now "real" property and deeded? A title would be easier to deal with then a deed that may need re-drawn, check with AAA or some other place with knowledgable notaries.

[AuntKitty]

If the deed listed everyone "as joint tenants with right of survivorship", then all you would have to do is produce a death certificate to show that the survivors own the property alone now. If not done JTROS, then a summary administration should do it if everyone will sign off. If you can't find someone then you can probably do it by publishing notice to them in the newspaper. This sounds like something you can get advice on from your local Legal Aid Society or whatever you have in your area. They may not take the case, but might be willing to tell you how to do things.

Good luck! If the property is in Fla or NC, pm me and I will see if I can help.

Kitty.

[cc-rider]

I don't believe it is deeded. It's titled, just like a car.

[Kenneth in NC]

In NC show death certificate and proof your executor of will. No problem no legal fees.

Kenneth

[baddogbad]

maybe you can find what you need here...

http://www.legalzoom.com/

[Michael W. Smith]

I think you have a problem. Regardless of whether or not the trailer is on a title or deed with her name on it means that she actually owns 1/3 of it. (Doesn't matter that she had her name on it because of the loan, the fact remains after the loan was paid off, her name wasn't taken off so she actually owned 1/3 of the trailer upon her death).

If her trust stated her 2 kids were to get everything in the trust, that also means that both of her kids own a total of 1/3 of the trailer. Provided they are willing to be nice ( ), both kids should be able to show her death certificate, the trust, and the title or deed of the trailer and sign off on it.
However, if they want to be mean - they legally own 1/3 of the trailer and can sell the trailer with your daughter and SIL and can keep 1/3 of the selling price.

Now I'm not a lawyer (nor play one on tv), so I could be wrong, but I think your grandmother's 2 children are actually 1/3 owners of the trailer as well.

Let us know what you come up with. Whatever happens, I really don't think you need the trust or will opened back up by a lawyer. With the trust paperwork, title or deed of the trailer, a death certificate, and the cooperation of your mother and her sibling - this can be resolved.

[rambler]

When real property or a titled item is involved, things get pretty sticky on tiny little points. There are many ways to let other property flow through to the proper owner, but not titled or deeded stuff.

The former Rep's perhaps could get it cleared up easily; A spouse could perhaps get it cleared up easily.

But, no way on more distant relatives, who are interesed in the item in question, with no help from the reps. That will just set off all sorts of bells & whistles to the legal folk that need to do the title transfer..... As explained to us they just want what is theirs; but to the courts, they would be trying to pull one over on the trust/ reps/ any other interested party.....

This situation is sticky enough to need a lawyer. It's unfortunate, but how it is. Grandma was very smart to protect herself, kids shoulda been smart enough to clear stuff up when it was paid off. Not being harsh, but it's just going to be a life's lesson for them. We all probably have learned a few the hard way. They will survive.

--->Paul