Log home kits???

chris30523 · #1 05/23/06, 09:58 AM

Has anyone had any experience with the log home kits??If so what companies..We are looking into this as we want to build next year.They all sound good in their adds..So what are the pro's and con's??

coalroadcabin · #2 05/23/06, 02:21 PM

I researched log home's for years. Here's what I have found out:

You want to make sure you check references very well. DO NOT just talk to the customers that the company puts you in contact with. Some of the companies pay people a bonus for an endorsement, so find a log home in your area and talk to the folks who live there about the home, that way you will be getting an honest opinion. Also, don't fall for the 'kiln dried' pitch that some companies use. Some of the 'kiln drying' is nothing more than a day in a kiln followed by months of sitting out in the log yard (in the rain and snow). Ask the company what the moisture content of their logs is and make them prove it to you. Tour homes that are at least 5 years old. Tour real people's homes, not sales models. When you tour a home, look for signs of water damage on the interior of the logs. Ask about how easy the company was to deal with (some companies disappear after they've gotten your check)

Check out
Log Home Reports

For us, we decided against a log home 'kit'. I found a wonderful handcrafter in West Virginia to hand cut the logs and then assemble the log home shell on our site.

Oh, and just a warning, a lot of your friends and family may turn up their noses and ask you if you're crazy for wanting a log home. (These are ususally the folks who are living in the vinyl sided/fake stone McMansions on a 1/5 acre lots) Just smile and nod-----

Hoop · #3 05/23/06, 03:32 PM

Log home kits are no different than any other building. Some are put together cheap & quick. Others are put together with meticulous care and attention to detail. Unfortunately, the buyer doesn't have a clue what they're getting.
In reality, most people buy a log home kit from the company that is the biggest, has the best salespeople, best ads, has the glitziest presentation, pricing, etc. Few people bother to inspect homes that have been lived in for a few years. Someone else mentioned an inspection of an existing log home that has been up for 5 years. I agree 100%.

Kiln drying is a sham and only logs of smaller diameters can be kiln dried. With bigger logs, they only get dried a few inches into the wood.

The log home kit industry has resisted any adhereance to a set of standards, other than the building code. It is one of the few industries that chooses not to govern itself. It is definitely a situation of "Let the Buyer Beware".

B2bKen · #4 05/23/06, 05:03 PM

My Wife and I want the beauty of a log home, but are concerned about the shrinking that all Log Home Magazines talk about. We have did some research on underground homes and liked the benefits of the constant tempurature and very low heating cooling costs/needs. Then I saw a article in a Log home magazine that Wisconsin Log homes is using half logs with a product called SIPs in the walls. Guess these are some type of foam (6") that is put between strand board and it is supposed to be stronger than a 2x6 wall and above all energy efficient like what we liked about the underground homes. You could finish the interior with a half logs or even drywall. I believe there are also other Log Home Companies that offer this too. This would certainly be a option for not only the problem with log settling but give you a good energy efficient home too. We hope that 2-3 years from now that we will live in one of these type of log homes.

DenverGirlie · #5 05/23/06, 05:36 PM

Please remember that Log Homes will shrink, and settle with age. Likewise it is wood, so moisture will be wicked into the house. yearly manitance is going to also be a consideration, it's notjust like hosing down siding, it's more work.

We loved the look, but personally it's not worth all the hassles, so we are going to do a strawbale with SIP's and timerframing to give us the feeling.

Carol K · #6 05/23/06, 08:27 PM

My husband, myself and 8 year old twins built ours. If you can follow a puzzle it's not too hard. BUT, it's heavy work, you need to be precise, a log wall leaning out is not good! You have to drill eveery log for your electric, forget one hole and you don't have electric in that area. You need to stain every 3 years give or take. It can be done by a novice, would I do it again, not with logs but with SIPS yes.

Carol

frugalville · #7 05/23/06, 09:35 PM

I won't go into milled vs handcrafted debate.

A short list of things to look for...
-----------------
Nominal log thickness- more is more thermal mass and higher R value.
Types of wood, cedars, pines, n such..
Chink or Chinkless ?
Spring / Thru Bolts- large bolts that go thru the entire wall to control wall stability and keep settling pressure evenly distributed.
Borate Treatment
Steel jointing plates for beams and braces.
Pre notched or joist hangers for milled kits.
shiplap joints for milled kits vs Drilled and pegged.
Log cornering system, doves, butt n pass, saddle..
Good supplies- weatherseal foam between log courses, olylog fastners, high quality caulking.
My kit had a base log that was routed for electrical which eliminated drilling and pulling electrical thru each location.
Plan all utility locations before erecting the shell.
All logs will shrink, don't believe anyone who tells you different. Log houses move around a bit at different times of the year.

My 2 cents.. Build something you can maintain. No 12/12 pitched roofs/3 stories if you are going to maintain it yourself.

Best.

chris30523 · #8 05/24/06, 07:50 AM

Thanks for the info.We are in the humid south and I have talked to others that have built log homes here.You get a mixed bag.Some love it and some would never do it again.We are limited by building codes as to the type of home we can build.No alternative housing.We couldn't even live in a camper in the middle of our 30 acres.I will have someone else erect the shell as I want to make sure it is done right.We are looking for something easy to keep up.No 3 stories or high pitched roof.Every home has some upkeep.I am really confuse by all of the companies out there.Do you think it would be better to go with a small co.thats been around a while or one of the larger ones ??

Tango · #9 05/24/06, 08:14 AM

Before you buy a kit find a company willing to build it for you. Don't buy a kit and then look for a builder. Better yet, by the shell from the builder. I had a log house built on my property, just the shell. It is just what it looks like: rustic. I really love the look. My last house was also brand new but conventional wood with vinyl siding. It was nice to pressure wash the vinyl but the house wasn't built as solidly as this log house is built. You have to seal it several times in the first several years but all homes have maintenance, honestly. I went with a builder who cut his own logs and air dried them. The company was close by so I had no transportation costs. Best company to go with, imo, is a company who has been in the business for at least ten years and builds what they sell. My builder didn't advertise nationally; he's in the yellow pages. A family member who wanted a log house followed up with a nationally advertised log kit seller. Their kit didn't have a lot of what was standard with my house- please research and don;t fall for advertising.

frugalville · #10 05/24/06, 08:28 AM

It depends...

You have to go down a short list to find our what you might want.

Do you want a milled kit or a handcrafted ?
If handcrafted, most will restack the logs on your site to make sure everything fits right. I'd go look at a couple of their handcrafted homes.

If you want a milled kit, I wold put together a list of attributes you want in a milled kit. Some only do 12x6 chinked like http://www.stonemill.com/
Others do a chinkless like http://www.kuhnsbros.com/, I think they are one of the biggest. I personally went with http://www.applog.com/ for a couple of reasons...

1) Borate pressure treated at kiln
2) Nominal log thickness- i.e. their 8 inch logs D logsare 8 inches at the smallest part of the curve, not the outer part. So your walls are at least 8 inches thick all the way through. Some log companies that do a 6 inch log are only 5 inches thick. Think thermal mass.
3) Joist hanging hardware and plates vs notching onsite.
4) Thru bolt system located in skirtboard.
5) proximity to my location. Think delivery charges. Most full kit homes take 3 to 4 semis to deliver.
6) Buy what I wanted. Most full kit homes have items you can get cheaper locally than to order. Plus the materials don't have to sit out in the weather while you are building. I could get 2x6 t&G EWP almost 20 cents cheaper locallly with no delivery charges. That goes for windows, doors, stain and interior siding- as well as subfloor.

I would find a builder who has done at least a few log homes. There are specific issues that have to be addressed at construction. Building settling gaps, electrical routing, 2nd floor plumbing and such. See if your builder can get you a deal cause all the log home companies will haggle, they just don't like to do it.

As faw as living onsite while construction is taking place... We had the same issues and used our RV as an office- nod nod wink wink onsite. We were so tired everyday after construction we slept in the "office trailer" - IF anybody asked, we were staying at our mother-in-laws. 5 months later we were in our new home... haven't been camping since.

No I don't sell kits, or receive commissions for leads.

Best.

Quinton · #11 05/24/06, 09:27 AM

Before you do anything with building or buying a "kit", please do your homework.

Get a contract before signing it, and get with 4-5 people who have built with the different builders.

Check out this site for a biased opinion against "kits". But the people there do seem to know their stuff.

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/forum...pic.php?t=1373

tiogacounty · #12 05/24/06, 10:17 AM

Log home kits frequently have outrageous mark-ups. Even if you do settle on a kit, get a very detailed materials list before you sign on the dotted line. Take the list to a local lumber yard and give it to a contractor sales rep. Price everything but the logs. Now go on-line and find a national or regional log supplier that sells logs by the foot. Add it up and get an idea of how much profit you are giving the kit manufacturer. Many will be shocked to discover this number can be ten to twenty thousand on even the smallest, most basic homes. I worked with two guys who built their own homes from logs they bought from a mill. The homes were finished, including excavating, foundation and septic for far less than half of the finished "turnkey" price quoted by the kit manufacturer. There are a lot of quality log home manufacturers out there, there is also a lot of garbage, and in some cases an enourmous amount of money to be made from an uninformed buyer. Be careful.

coalroadcabin · #13 05/24/06, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris30523

I am really confuse by all of the companies out there.Do you think it would be better to go with a small co.thats been around a while or one of the larger ones ??

A company that has been in business for a long time most likely has a pretty good reputation (or a lot of money and some very good lawyers! LOL)

For what it's worth, the company that frugalville mentioned in his post-Appalachian Log Structures- was on our short list of milled log home companies. They have a good product, they've been around for a long time and the folks that I talked with all said they had very good customer service. Just realize that you will be buying your kit through a sales representative so it's really important that you feel comfortable with the company's rep in your area. Any problems or issues you may have will be addressed by the rep and you will rely on this rep to answer any questions you have. I didn't get a really good feeling from our local ALS rep, so we crossed them off our list but if your local person is someone you feel you could work well with, I'd give them a look.

chris30523 · #14 05/24/06, 02:31 PM

I actually was considering the co. that frugalville mentioned.The closest rep is Tenn. although that is not too far.In looking at their literature it looked like the type of home I was looking for.Since there are so many co.'s it helps that someone else came up with the company I was looking at without being mentioned.I have been looking and considering for some time now and we are about to take the plunge...My house sold and the MH that we are living in is old and small.

frugalville · #15 05/24/06, 02:32 PM

Tioga... is right, most companies do have a high mark for their pre-cut kits. Each companies idea of precut is different. Some are log walls precut and a pile of nominal lumber for everything else. Some have precut roof rafters, and ridge beams, some use a purlin roofing system. Almost all require post cutting and double mitre valley rafters. (So think about that roofline in your design).

There are companies where you can buy a pile of milled logs. Sometimes they will notch the corners (per pair) for an additional cost. Then you are required to field cut wall butt joints (and peg or spline them) as well as doors and rafters. You can definitely save some money this way, but you better be good with a 16 1/2 mikita circular saw and a chainsaw.

You can also use spikes instead of olylogs. You can also get cheaper gaketing systems. You also only get 1 shot at it, there is no room to redo a wall if you have inflitration problems.

Precut kits have a mark, but they do save labor. I had myself and 2 other guys. With good weather we were dried in a month. My kits had double jams and slotted window jambs that allow for settling.

Don't leave out the 'log home' expense list that gets underestimated. Like those cathedral ceilings -We laid 15,000 lf of 2x6 T&G ceilings. Also that 22 ft rocked chimney, a good staircase and rail system.

We also underestimated the cost of a nice kitchen. Not one of those stailess showrooms, but some nice wood cabinets with a nice island.

Oh yea, those wood floors aren't cheap either. We used a liquidator to get 3/4 inch Maple (tavern grade) looks very nice...

Those kits look inclusive, but do not underestimate the finishlabor and supply costs.

chris30523 · #16 05/24/06, 03:09 PM

Thanks frugalville this is good info.I also checked the links that you posted.I was looking at a different App.log homes.I also liked the look of the stone mill homes.I guess I have alot of home work to do.Some one told me to figure about 3 times the kit price with labor to get the finished cost.We will be able to do the interior ourselves but will have someone else dry in.I have checked into conventional building in our area and the cost is about the same per square foot.