Inexpensive Housing/Living Alternative

[Cabin Fever]

Wind In Her Hair and I have some new friends who have a very interesting lifestyle. They have chosen this lifestyle to pay off bills and save for the future. They live in a teepee...that's right...a teepee. They've been living this way since last July....all through a cold Minnesota winter. They have no heating bills, no electric bills, no water/sewer bills, no mortgage payments, etc. They heat with firewood, have some propane lights and an outhouse. Much of their gear is stored in an old travel trailer that you see in the background of the photo below.

Just something to think about for those of you who feel that they cannot possibly save enough to get that perfect homestead you've always dreamed about. (Marchwind, if you read this thread you may want to chime in about our friends in Bemidji.

[Dahc]

Hi CF. Can you post some specifics on the propane lighting? How would something like that work? I don't know much about that and I'm sure many other folks don't either.

My wife and I really want to build a straw bale structure with a total cost of about $7,000 to $8,000. I was worried about the humidity here in GA but there are several in FL that are almost 100 years old and have weathered a couple of hurricanes. Any details on what exactly these folks are doing would probably help several people on this forum.

[Cabin Fever]

Propane lighting is relatively simple. You can purchase the lights at places like Lehmans.com or even some RV parts and service centers. A propane light fixture is much like the portable propane lanterns you see from Coleman. In other words, both types use a propane mantle inside a glass globe. Our friends used flexible copper tubing and flare fittings to supply the propanne from a 100# cylinder to their lighting fixtures.

[jnap31]

Your friends have a cool home. Where are the chickens?

[donsgal]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

Wind In Her Hair and I have some new friends who have a very interesting lifestyle. They have chosen this lifestyle to pay off bills and save for the future. They live in a teepee...that's right...a teepee. They've been living this way since last July....all through a cold Minnesota winter. They have no heating bills, no electric bills, no water/sewer bills, no mortgage payments, etc. They heat with firewood, have some propane lights and an outhouse. Much of their gear is stored in an old travel trailer that you see in the background of the photo below.

Just something to think about for those of you who feel that they cannot possibly save enough to get that perfect homestead you've always dreamed about. (Marchwind, if you read this thread you may want to chime in about our friends in Bemidji.

How fortunate they are to have found a county/state that allows them to do this without sticking their governmental noses into their chosen lifestyle. Sadly, even here in rural Missouri they would have to contend with the health department controlling every aspect of life under the auspices of doing it for the "health and well being" of the public. Piffle

donsgal
(sorry about the premature post hit enter too soon.)

[MoonShine]

I've known some people that lived in Tipis...but not in those cold winter climates like Minnesota. I wouldn't mind living in one(I say that now,I haven't ever tried it,big difference),but thinking about the cold winter makes it less appealing! Kudos to those people...I'm sure it's easier said than done.

[Freeholder]

I've talked to two women who have lived for a year or more in a tipi. One was here in Oregon, up in the mountains (which get a lot of snow), the other was in New Hampshire, which can get down to thirty or forty below in the winter (depending on whether you are south or north of the White Mountains). Both said that the tipi was very comfortable even in the winter. Of course, that was with a liner and an ozan (partial ceiling). And I imagine they would have gone through quite a bit of firewood. But I wouldn't mind living in one.

Kathleen

[albionjessica]

I have never even seen a real teepee. I guess I don't understand how they work. Where does the smoke from the fire go? Did they erect a little fireplace? How large is the living area? What do they use as flooring? What kind of material is it made of?

You have me very curious now...

[Cabin Fever]

The base of the teepee is 20 feet in diameter. The exterior of the teepee is made of canvas. It has an interior lining, also made of the canvas. There is a ceiling made of one of those silver “space blankets.” Inside the teepee is a woodstove. The chimney of the stove goes up through the ceiling and out the vent at the top of the teepee (it’s really hard to see the chimney in the photo). The floor is made of plywood on a 2x4 frame which sits directly on the ground.

[Freeholder]

If you look closely at the pictures, you can see the smoke hole at the peak of the tipi. Basically a tipi is a chimney that you live in -- only the smoke is drawn up through the smoke hole, leaving the floor area clear.

Hmm. Not sure I can explain this without pictures, but I'll try. A tipi consists of a framework of poles, tied at the top (and they have to be arranged just right, or the canvas won't lay right, and they may fall down), covered with a taut canvas cover which has a door, a smoke hole at the top, and flaps which control the wind direction at the smoke hole (so you don't get rain or smoke coming back down inside the tipi). In cold weather you add a liner, which is tied inside the pole framework (so there's a space between the liner and the cover), and an ozan, which is a canvas partial ceiling over the back of the tipi. Originally, the Indians used a small open fire in the center of the floor space for heating and cooking, and that's probably still one of the best ways of doing it -- because the open flames will also help light the space. But most people nowadays will use a small stove there, or perhaps a BBQ grill or some such. Floor can be anything you want -- originally it was dirt, as the tipis were moved frequently. Now people often put their semi-permanent tipis on wood decks, and you could also use a cement slab.

The size of the living area depends on the size of the tipi. You can get little ones only 12 feet in diameter -- good for short camping trips and play houses for the children. Most that adults actually use are from fourteen feet up to 24-28 feet, but they can be made even larger -- I think the main limit on size is the poles. Still, a 24-28 foot tipi is quite spacious. There's no privacy inside one, though, since there are no partitions. The walls slant, which, of course, limits the use of the floor space close to the walls. And you can't mount cabinets or anything like that on the walls. Everything has to sit on the floor, or hang from the poles above the liner.

There are a couple of books about tipis that you might be able to find in your local library, if you are interested -- and there are tipi manufacturers who have websites where you can also get some information.

Hope this helps. (My daughter would love for us to live in a tipi -- maybe someday!)

Kathleen

[Wildoutdoorsmen]

This is what I plan to do with my land in WV. I have ordered a 18' tipi from a company in OR that made all the tipi's for the movie "Dances with Wolves". The total cost with poles, liners, floor cover and ceiling around $2100 delivered. Divide this by the 10-12 months I will take to get the cabin up and livable, is really cheap. I plan on keeping a journal of the whole experience.

[Obser]

Excellent post, Wildoutdoorsmen. You have done your homework. Best wishes on your venture. Please keep us informed if possible.

[RandB]

CF

As someone else already mentioned, how do they manage to do this legally, without "the man" constantly being on their back? Have they just stayed under the radar and not been caught yet?
Around here, you can't even camp in a trailer full-time. A few years ago the authorities cracked down on a local campground that had allowed some people to live there year-round. Ironically the name of the campground was "four seasons".

[okiemom]

If you don't live in a small acerage w/ covenants there is nothing anyone can say. Buy land that is zone free and is treed for privacy and no one will know.

[Rowdy]

Originally Posted by RandB

CF

As someone else already mentioned, how do they manage to do this legally, without "the man" constantly being on their back? Have they just stayed under the radar and not been caught yet?
Around here, you can't even camp in a trailer full-time. A few years ago the authorities cracked down on a local campground that had allowed some people to live there year-round. Ironically the name of the campground was "four seasons".

See, and I do not understand how they could _not_ let you do it, if it was your land, etc, and you had a legal septic system of some sort in place.

[Freeholder]

You have to select your location carefully. Some places are much less regulated than others. And there are places where composting toilets are acceptable, and there are still places where outhouses are okay.

Kathleen

[Wildoutdoorsmen]

RandB,
I live about 15-20 miles from Four Seasons. I'm getting out of this state while the gettings good. Taxes, car insurance, etc. I have done price comparisons with here SNJ to WV, and found I can live on $2500 less per month.

I'm a union carpenter, so I can work anywhere. But this state has got so bad, with taxes, laws, and income needs. I'm almost shocked to see that you want to still live here in retirement. The state normally forces out the retired.

[Jan Doling]

Tipis are so romatic...the firelight dancing on the canvas walls, the womb-like sense of enclosure....sigh, then there's the bugs, the cold, the damp, floods, bears, wolves. They have a great idea for saving rent, etc., though. My fingers are crossed for them that the government does not interfere before they finally build. They can always use the tipi for a guest house afterwards.

[RandB]

Wildoutdoorsman,

Believe me, I know all the problems, we can't leave here quite yet, but I don't think we will be here forever. However, other states seem to be catching up, I think it's getting harder to find another place to go.

[Obser]

Rowdy, laws are not required or expected to make sense. They are simply rules approved by politicians and available to be enforced by punishment, usually fines or imprisonment.

Whether one owns the land or not is of no significance in many cases. A state or local law can be passed (and possibly enforced) making illegal nearly anything one might do on their own land. Some laws are challenged in court by those "injured" by the law (and who have the resources to legally challenge). Most often, however, people choose to comply, to abandon their plans or to move elsewhere seeking a more favorable legal environment.

Since "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" in court, every one of us breaks laws, unwittingly (or knowingly). Fortunately, most laws on the books are not enforced and most "infractions" are unnoticed, unprosecuted or unpunished.

Some activities, however, are obvious and are scrutinized by enforcers (building a house, for example, or a trailer park). Owners can be, and usually are, forced to comply with the "letter of the law" pertaining to permits and inspections or face fines, condemnation proceedings, loss of property or jail sentences.

Sometimes laws and enforcement make sense in reality. Other times they do not -- but they are still the existing laws and enforcement is still possible.