Gold Prices?????

[chrisl]

Curious to know what everyone thinks of the new record gold prices? Over $700 an oz. yesterday. A few peopel I've been talking to are saying watch out things are about to get worse, as far as the economy is going.

What do you all think?


Chris

[Obser]

My Obser-vation:

Many factors affect the price of gold and silver. World demand, mine production, buying and selling practices of "big money" interests and economic or monetary instability come to mind as major factors. Speculators, hoping to make a profit by buying and selling precious metals as a commodity become a factor during transition times (rising prices) also influence price.

Note: Watch the price of silver. It has doubled since last September ($7 to $14+) while gold has increased 71% ($420 to $720+). http://www.engelhard.com/eibprices/DPCharts.aspx

It seems to me as though the general driving force behind rising gold and silver prices over the past few years, and the rapid increases recently, is a loss in confidence in the US dollar abroad and at home. Many nations, central banks, and large investors and individuals are becoming less inclined to hold Federal Reserve Notes (or "paper" -- debt instruments -- redeemable in FRNs).

When investors and private citizens would rather have something other than dollars, they can option for gold or silver or for other commodities or currencies. The easiest and surest may be to simply exchange dollars for precious metals. When many investors or common people do the same thing the price naturally rises because as gold and silver are bought and held the amount available for purchase is reduced and competition for what is available increases.

Perhaps what we are seeing presently is really not a rise in price of precious metals but a falling value (buying power) of the US dollar (FRN). Increasingly the common people we meet or correspond with are talking about buying gold and silver instead of holding paper FRNs (which have no intrinsic worth). A few years ago only a few collectors and “hoarders” talked about buying gold – now “everyone” seems to be at least talking about doing so.

An interesting question might be: “If you made $20,000 today, say on a real estate transaction, would you think it wise to keep it in (choose one) FRNs or precious metals?

I have asked this question many times in person and in forums. The responses often degenerate into buying guns and ammunition or some commodity that has ”survival value” in SHTF scenarios. However, that misses the point of the question, which is to focus attention on the relative “holding” value of precious metals vs. FRNs and, therefore, the person’s evaluation of which is more likely to retain value.

[rwinsouthla]

I don't have any so it doesn't matter. Now if chicken meat goes up, I may benefit!!!! LOL. Trying to keep the humor in the post.

[mightybooboo]

Its loss of confidence in the US dollar,that is related to the US debt load and the REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT,you know,the so called conservative,spending us beyond our means.

Ask yourself why he wants to destroy America,and if he is succeding.If you answer affirmatively that he is a NWO pawn,then you know why gold and silver are 'better' money than the US dollar.

Its simply a loss in confidence in the USA's monetary policies by Americans and the WORLD.The WORLD is going to stop Financing our endless debt when oil trades in currency other than the US dollar,which Iraq tried(so we slaughtered them) and which Iran is threatening(and if they do we will slaughter them too)

Which BTW,is why we had the Iraq war,and will have the Iran war,and the Venezuelin war too if they try to undercut the dollar as the worlds currency for oil trading.Or you can believe WMDs,or Nuclear threat,or any other lies they put out to convince the sheeple why we need war,ALL LIES,the real reason is because America is bankrupt,the world is tired of supporting us,and we will kill anyone that tries to stop the financing of our debt,which is built in by OIL TRADING IN DOLLARS.Stop that dollar trade,no one,anywhere needs the USA except for weapons purchases.

So,will they succeed in trading oil for another currency?If they do,your dollars are worthless paper overnight.

BooBoo

[mightybooboo]

Originally Posted by Obser

I have asked this question many times in person and in forums. The responses often degenerate into buying guns and ammunition or some commodity that has ”survival value” in SHTF scenarios. However, that misses the point of the question, which is to focus attention on the relative “holding” value of precious metals vs. FRNs and, therefore, the person’s evaluation of which is more likely to retain value.

You can see that very clearly here on these very forums.

BooBoo

[Freeholder]

Obser and BooBoo are right -- which is why I've been telling people to get or stay out of debt, and prepare for economic hard times. I've been accused of being a doomer, which may be true, but IMO it's better to be prepared and have nothing happen than to NOT be prepared and have something happen. I think Katrina was a wake-up call to a lot of people in that regard. Argentina five years ago should also have been a wake-up call, since we are headed in the same direction.

Someone on TB2K made a list the other day of everything that's coming down the pike at us right now -- it amounts to the worst 'perfect storm' anybody has ever seen. I can't remember everything that was on the list, but here are some of them:

immigration problems which could lead to 'civil war'
the demise of the dollar
Peak Oil
bird flu and other diseases
worsening hurricane seasons
wars and rumors of wars

(Beginning to sound like the end times, isn't it?)

Kathleen

[Red Devil TN]

What kool-aid are you people drinking?!?

The Gold and Silver fluctuation is just that. It's happened before, it’s happening now, it'll happen again.

We are in Iraq, not for oil, the NOW, monetary backing etc., we are there primarily because we had no military access to the area and Iraq's 'President' was the idiotic moron that gave us a semi-plausible excuse to put up some sorely needed (strategically) bases in the area. Why do you think Libya decided to let UN inspectors back in?!? Muammar al-Qathafi knew exactly what we were doing and he didn’t want any brand new US bases going up on his soil!

Peak oil is a myth, unless you are referring to 'peak demand' where oil demand outpaces oil production. Two wholly different subjects.

Pandemics happen, have happened throughout history, and will continue to happen. We should have had a whole lot more with all the additional contact current technology is allowing, however, that same technology also is doing pretty good at keeping many of the new bugs at bay. Big picture people!

Worsening hurricanes... there was an article just released in which some few scientists noted this and attributed it to normal fluctuations that occur historically based on oceanic temps at depth. There was also a study done that came to the same conclusion (using the same basis iirc) while debunking global warming.

Wars have raged throughout history, I doubt that will change much in impending history.

Doom and gloomers, yeesh!

Now, as for Gold and Silver as they now stand, for many years in the 90's Gold and Silver were both listed as undervalued. I think we are seeing the market correction happening concurrently with a lower dollar, great marketing by some precious metal firms and lowered consumer confidence. Sounds like economics to me.

[Red Devil TN]

Oh dang! I forgot to blame it all on Bush! What was I thinking?!?

[Obser]

Originally Posted by mightybooboo

Its simply a loss in confidence in the USA's monetary policies by Americans and the WORLD.The WORLD is going to stop Financing our endless debt when oil trades in currency other than the US dollar,which Iraq tried(so we slaughtered them) and which Iran is threatening(and if they do we will slaughter them too)

Which BTW,is why we had the Iraq war,and will have the Iran war,and the Venezuelin war too if they try to undercut the dollar as the worlds currency for oil trading.Or you can believe WMDs,or Nuclear threat,or any other lies they put out to convince the sheeple why we need war,ALL LIES,the real reason is because America is bankrupt,the world is tired of supporting us,and we will kill anyone that tries to stop the financing of our debt,which is built in by OIL TRADING IN DOLLARS.Stop that dollar trade,no one,anywhere needs the USA except for weapons purchases.

So,will they succeed in trading oil for another currency?If they do,your dollars are worthless paper overnight.

BooBoo, you hit that nail squarely.

It seems as though 70% of the US population is beginning to understand that the present policies and "leadership" are disasters for the country and its citizens

I, personally, do not place all blame on any one politician or any one corporation, but upon them collectively. Our consumptive society, 6% of the world population consuming 25% of the world's resources, is not sustainable -- even with the world's most expensive military (which costs nearly as much as ALL the military of ALL other nations combined).

If there is a light at the end of the tunnel, I don't see any sign of it. Does anyone else? Is it inevitable that we self-destruct? Are there alternatives?

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Red Devil TN

Oh dang! I forgot to blame it all on Bush! What was I thinking?!?

Hey its Bush baby and the Repo controlled congress that has run up the national tab to incredible amount it is today. They didnt have the cahonies to step up and and say their "necessary" war to bring democracy to Iraq was pricey and required big tax hikes to pay it off. Then go ahead and implement those hikes. Instead they want to destabilize our economy with massive debt to pay for the war (and lot of pork just cause they can), causing massive inflation and make our grandchildren into debt slaves. Your grandchildren could well end up trying to sneek into China as illegal aliens to earn "hard currency" cleaning their toilets to send back to families here.

[mightybooboo]

Originally Posted by Red Devil TN

What kool-aid are you people drinking?!?

The Gold and Silver fluctuation is just that. It's happened before, it’s happening now, it'll happen again.

We are in Iraq, not for oil, the NOW, monetary backing etc., we are there primarily because we had no military access to the area and Iraq's 'President' was the idiotic moron that gave us a semi-plausible excuse to put up some sorely needed (strategically) bases in the area. Why do you think Libya decided to let UN inspectors back in?!? Muammar al-Qathafi knew exactly what we were doing and he didn’t want any brand new US bases going up on his soil!

RD,if you believe that,what can I say but your cup of Kool aide has already been consumed?

I cant even begin a point by point rebuttal,youve bought the lies,all hook, line, and sinker.

And you think its good policy invading the WORLD or threatening to invade the WORLD?????

Bullies fall down HARD,and we are the WORLDS BULLY,and we WILL get the BULLIES treatment,one BIG,HARD FALL,and YOU SUPPORT THAT AS NATIONAL POLICY?????!!!!!!

And I agree,its BOTH parties who have destroyed us,just GWB gets the latest credit as its his TRAITORS in charge right now.

In the old days we had the revolution,nowadays you get UN Troops if you try that.I think we are in big trouble for a LONG time to come,and the resolution will be a disaster unknown previously in its scope and horror.

And the politicians and bankers will escape it all,as they always tend to do.

BooBoo

[mightybooboo]

"Oh dang! I forgot to blame it all on Bush! What was I thinking?!?"

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Hey its Bush baby and the Repo controlled congress that has run up the national tab to incredible amount it is today. .

Yep,typical Bushie reply,even when they control the Pres,Senate , and Congress,its still "Not Their Fault"

Tell me who the Kool aide drinkers are,its people that can say that with a straight face.

You are right John,weve been indebted to our deaths,and we will reap the rewards of such incredibly irresponsible financial management.

Economic slavery is whats coming,the gov. already takes half MY EARNINGS,get the other half,guess what??YOU ARE NOW A SLAVE TO THE GOV AND THE BANKERS,THE RULING ELITE!

If you or I did that with debt,we would be bankrupt,Well the USA has done that,we ARE bankrupt,but we will just print more money,allow an invasion of illegals to make manual labor 'unworthy' of a living wage,destroy the middle class,sell out all our manufacturing,destroy our farmers,import our food,destroy our currency and somehow all will be fine???

I dont think so.

BooBoo

[Red Devil TN]

Boo, I don't drink the kool-aid, too mind-numbing. I'm glad to see some people are so supercilious and self-absorbed that they can not even absorb a thought process outside of their own as legitimate.

To assume you know what position I personally hold because I simply stated an observation is... well, my Mother taught me better. I came to the strategic conclusion I stated years ago after the first invasion of Iraq. It’s nothing new. Did I make any mention of a political motive? No, I made my comment in the context of military strategy. The strategy is sound regardless of what you think the political repercussions are or will be.

As far as what the world thinks of us, I have lived abroad. I probably know better than the vast majority of our populace what the world at large thinks of us. There is also a huge sense of entitlement that permeates the peoples in many of those same countries that complain about our policies, bullying, and strong arm tactics. Among other things of course, but I wander...

The extra little ‘Bush’ comment' is because that's all I read when I open these threads. Every time, guaranteed, some one will blame it on Bush and an anti-Bush orgy ensues. Oh, we should overlook the fact that he does not have that sort of autonomous control of the government, right? It's ridiculous! It's OUR fault. WE are the people that keep voting these idiots in! If you really don't like it, do something other than whine and bitch, try and start laws for TERM LIMITS, limited governmental power, RUN FOR OFFICE, etc.! The state we are in now is not going to be solved in Washington, it’s going to start at home by people willing to get involved and fix the problem. Currently the only people really getting involved are politicos.

There now you have some small insight into some small amount of my actual beliefs to attack instead of trying to use some asinine assumptions based on a stated observation.



Obser, our consumerism will be our eventual downfall. Hopefully the ever increasing prices from building supplies to food will slowly shock us as a nation to curb our wastefulness. But I doubt it.

Ok, enough for now, I need to get back outside….

[Larburlingame]

Many believe that when gold goes above the $350 range it means inflation is on the rise.

[Freeholder]

Yes, inflation IS on the rise. It can't help but be, because the Fed has been dumping huge amounts of newly created 'money' into the system the last few years (it isn't really money, it's electronic digits that represent money, but close enough for government work -- pun intended!).

Inflation is undoubtedly part of the reason why gold is going up, and all other physical commodities, as well. But also other countries are using their stores of soon-to-be-worthless dollars to purchase stuff that actually has lasting value, such as precious metals, and useful metals. That's another part of the rise in the price of gold. They are getting out of the dollar as an investment.

Kathleen

[Obser]

BlueJuniperFarm, you summed that up nicely.

I might add that inflation is NOT prices going up -- that is only the symptom

Inflation IS the value (purchasing power) of the dollar going down -- that is the disease

Inflation is caused by unwise expansion of the currency supply arbitrarily by government action -- "more dollars chasing the same supply of goods". It is typical of fiat currency (paper money backed by nothing) for the issuing government to, sooner or later, begin printing more money to spend without raising taxes.

The US dollar has lost 95% of its buying power in the past 100 years, much of that during the past decade (as can be verified by any inflation calculator available by web search – one is http://www.westegg.com/inflation).

[mtman]

since i can remember i heard things will get worse and they have
and then will keep doing so nothing new that i can see
jim

[mightybooboo]

Originally Posted by Red Devil TN

Boo, I don't drink the kool-aid, too mind-numbing. I'm glad to see some people are so supercilious and self-absorbed that they can not even absorb a thought process outside of their own as legitimate.

.

Says a lot about your position,insults,so be it.
Next time,try your position without em.Might give you some validity.I could go off on you,SORRY,IM bigger than name calling.

Guess thats the best ya got,eh?

BooBoo

[EasyDay]

Originally Posted by Red Devil TN

As far as what the world thinks of us, I have lived abroad. I probably know better than the vast majority of our populace what the world at large thinks of us. There is also a huge sense of entitlement that permeates the peoples in many of those same countries that complain about our policies, bullying, and strong arm tactics. Among other things of course, but I wander...

The extra little ‘Bush’ comment' is because that's all I read when I open these threads. Every time, guaranteed, some one will blame it on Bush and an anti-Bush orgy ensues. Oh, we should overlook the fact that he does not have that sort of autonomous control of the government, right? It's ridiculous! It's OUR fault. WE are the people that keep voting these idiots in! If you really don't like it, do something other than whine and bitch, try and start laws for TERM LIMITS, limited governmental power, RUN FOR OFFICE, etc.! The state we are in now is not going to be solved in Washington, it’s going to start at home by people willing to get involved and fix the problem. Currently the only people really getting involved are politicos.

RD, You are 100% correct! I, too, have lived in other countries and visited many more. You are so right about their 'sense of entitlement'! And I get so aggravated at the whiners and bitchers that don't do anything to solve what they perceive as our nation's problems. A person is either part of the solution or part of the problem. Weed out those that have taken an active role in some fashion... ANY fashion, and those that are left.... well, therein lies the problem.

Originally Posted by Red Devil TN

Obser, our consumerism will be our eventual downfall. Hopefully the ever increasing prices from building supplies to food will slowly shock us as a nation to curb our wastefulness. But I doubt it.

RD,
And again you are 100% correct! We are THE most wasteful country on the planet... and our position as being such is well-recognized by every other country on the planet. They laugh at our carelessness, our egotism, and our 'plastic' way of life.

[Red Devil TN]

Originally Posted by mightybooboo

Says a lot about your position,insults,so be it.
Next time,try your position without em.Might give you some validity.I could go off on you,SORRY,IM bigger than name calling.

Guess thats the best ya got,eh?

BooBoo

There is a vast difference betwixt observation and insult.