How many "self sufficient" will end up on gov't roles?

Beeman · #1 05/12/06, 08:59 AM

I wonder how many people who think they can move "back to the land" and be self sufficient will end up on Gov't roles and very dependant in later years due to lack of money? I know many that have done it successfully usually have their nest egg with health insurance and the whole package in place before they make their move. Unfortunately I know many old timers that lived the homestead life and never worked off the farm that are now totally dependant on the gov't and no longer have their farm or anything else left.
i know many work on the SHTF scenario but what if it doesn't hit the fan?

pcdreams · #2 05/12/06, 09:04 AM

pay it off first is the key.. Get everything in place then quit your job and farm full time.. Thats the only way to do it if you want to do anything other than "play" farmer/homesteader.

As for SHTF.. It will.. It'll just take something to tick everyone off enough to get the balls to start a revolution.. Well now that I think about it maybe it won't happen.. people are to complacent and lazy in America..

#3 05/12/06, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

i know many work on the SHTF scenario but what if it doesn't hit the fan?

Be prepared to be wrong and you will not go wrong.

Prep or do not prep, but be prepared to be wrong.

If you do not prep and disaster finds you then you could be in a very bad way.

If you prep so much for a particular scenario or even group of scenarios that the failure of which to occur becomes a disaster in itself then you could be in a bad way as well.

I've seen it happen both ways, but far, far more often to folks who never gave the first thought to prepping against times of disaster, emergency, crisis, and hardship. Every major hurricane landfall seems to reveal these folks by the thousands.

At best we see the future only dimly through a dark glass so be prepared to be wrong and you will not go wrong.

.....Alan.

pcdreams · #4 05/12/06, 09:14 AM

what scares me more is knowing that sometime the SHTF is coming.. but not having the extra resources to prepare. Thats our situation..

mama2littleman · #5 05/12/06, 10:13 AM

Does working for the government and having a government pension count as being on the government roles?

If so, you can add me and the hubby to the list. He's a soldier, and I'm one of those horrible government employees.

Nikki

jnap31 · #6 05/12/06, 10:29 AM

Plenty of people in the depression time period did not go on government welfare as was said the ticket is owning your home free and clear and some who are uniinsured have made the decision to die a natural death before they give up their farms and possesions to the hospitals better to leave an inheritance to your childrens children in my opinion.

hunter63 · #7 05/12/06, 11:05 AM

What is your point anyway, so far as I can tell, we still have the freedom to go broke.

Hammer4 · #8 05/12/06, 11:18 AM

Nikki, I think the OP was referring to government welfare roles....

Janp31, welfare and other 'safety net' programs ( as we know them today ) didn't exist at the time of the depression, they mostly came about post wwII.

Obser · #9 05/12/06, 11:32 AM

There are many parts to the original questions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

I wonder how many people who think they can move "back to the land" and be self sufficient

Many who “move back to the land” will be only marginally able to cope or will fail completely because they lack the knowledge, skills and resources to be even moderately self-sufficient (and an inability to learn and to adapt).

A lifetime of being accustomed to having all one’s needs met by simply “having a job” teaches one ONLY to be dependent upon others (or “the system”) to supply food, water, heat, shelter, transportation, etc, etc, etc.

Having a large “nest egg” may allow “rural dwelling urbanites” to BUY the skills and abilities of others but they are STILL dependent upon others to supply their needs unless and until they learn to do so themselves.

Most who live “in the box” are not even aware how dependent they are upon the elaborate systems that supply their needs -- UNTIL the electrical grid goes down for a few days or transportation interruptions or natural disasters interrupt the flow of goods. Then people become acutely aware. However, then it is too late to make adjustments in their personal life that would have allowed weathering the crisis easily and conveniently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

. . .will end up on Gov't roles and very dependant in later years

“Later years” may find any of us dependent upon others (perhaps including government). There is no reason to suspect that homesteaders fare any worse in this respect than non-homesteaders, and possibly some reason to expect them to fare better (healthy lifestyle, good food, exercise, low stress, etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

. . . due to lack of money?

Money is NOT the key to self-sufficiency or minimal-dependency. Knowledge, experience, skill, energy and attitude are far more important than money. Those who are “pre-homesteaders” think of everything in terms of money. Those who are homesteaders realize that other things are essential and that money is not central to life.

This is not to say that one can ignore money or that no money is ever required, but that thinking in terms of money prevents one from focusing upon important items.

I would go so far as to predict that those who focus on money are unlikely to succeed in homesteading or self-sufficiency.

jnap31 · #10 05/12/06, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer4

Nikki, I think the OP was referring to government welfare roles....

Janp31, welfare and other 'safety net' programs ( as we know them today ) didn't exist at the time of the depression, they mostly came about post wwII.

Your right I was thinking soup lines but I said welfare. My point was that people that grew their own food and really owned their homes did not need free hand outs from Uncle sam

mama2littleman · #11 05/12/06, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer4

Nikki, I think the OP was referring to government welfare roles....

Thank goodness, I thought I was going to be run out of the forum and tarred and feathered along the way. Gotta be careful about whom you claim to associate with around here <g>.

Nikki

jnap31 · #12 05/12/06, 11:42 AM

QUOTE=Obser]Money is NOT the key to self-sufficiency or minimal-dependency. Knowledge, experience, skill, energy and attitude are far more important than money. Those who are “pre-homesteaders” think of everything in terms of money. Those who are homesteaders realize that other things are essential and that money is not central to life.

This is not to say that one can ignore money or that no money is ever required, but that thinking in terms of money prevents one from focusing upon important items. [

I would go so far as to predict that those who focus on money are unlikely to succeed in homesteading or self-sufficiency.[/QUOTE]
This is wonderful I wish I could copy it and take it to my discussion I am fixing to have with morrison corner and her cheerleaders on a diffrent thread, I think I will take it there it meshes perfectly with what I have already written just 10 min beore I read this post.

pcdreams · #13 05/12/06, 11:48 AM

Obser: Coudn't have said it better myself

Niki · #14 05/12/06, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obser

Money is NOT the key to self-sufficiency or minimal-dependency. Knowledge, experience, skill, energy and attitude are far more important than money. Those who are “pre-homesteaders” think of everything in terms of money. Those who are homesteaders realize that other things are essential and that money is not central to life.

This is not to say that one can ignore money or that no money is ever required, but that thinking in terms of money prevents one from focusing upon important items.

I would go so far as to predict that those who focus on money are unlikely to succeed in homesteading or self-sufficiency.

This is exactly why I am working toward being more self-sufficient. I have no idea how far I will get, but my goal is this:

Instead of trying to figure out how to make more money, I want to figure out how to live without it.

pcdreams · #15 05/12/06, 12:11 PM

How to live without it? Hmm not in todays world... Live with very little is very doable (ask me I know).. You will need money to pay taxes at the very least.. everything else is optional.. provided of course you can and do raise all your own foods/animals foods etc.. and can sew... etc..

Simple solution is work a month or two a year for some ahole to make taxes (or sell some of what you grow) and you have the other 11 to do real and productive work.. doesn't get much less stressful than that.

Obser · #16 05/12/06, 01:06 PM

Niki, you have a positive attitude toward attaining a degree of self-sufficiency.

Some guidelines that we apply are:

Minimize the outflow of cash instead of focusing on income.

Quality of life is not determined by income and is often adversely affected by the need for income.

Income production requires that we sell our time, energy and talent to do something that someone else wants to buy.

"Job satisfaction" is a relative term. Are there more appealing alternative activities upon which one might choose to spend that quarter of their life?

Personal satisfaction trumps job satisfaction.

Money does not enter the equation except for those who choose to focus their life upon money and those who are unaware of or cannot comprehend the alternatives.

Those who dispute the above make ideal corporate employees and urban or suburban dwellers. We encourage them to continue because the system needs them and the countryside does not.

pcdreams · #17 05/12/06, 01:09 PM

dang obser.. Have you been reading my mind again??

Lol

Hammer4 · #18 05/12/06, 01:14 PM

I agree jnap, if you have some land and some ability to provide for yourself, you will be better off in an economic down turn than someone who doesn't have the means or the ability when needed to fend for themselves.

jnap31 · #19 05/12/06, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obser

Money does not enter the equation except for those who choose to focus their life upon money and those who are unaware of or cannot comprehend the alternatives.

Those who dispute the above make ideal corporate employees and urban or suburban dwellers. We encourage them to continue because the system needs them and the countryside does not.

LOL excelent post I was smiling and then as I read more I was laughing I think this is going to be an interesting thread, I can visualize Morriosnscorner frantically Pm'ing people for back up at this point LOL when I take the above to the frugal living a burden thread?

frogmammy · #20 05/12/06, 02:02 PM

I know someone (organic farmer) who makes a good living for about six months of the year....during which he rales and swears at the government, the military, people who work for the government, law enforcement people, and college graduates.

The OTHER six months of the year he collects welfare payments, food stamps, utility assistance and all the free food he can get.

Yeah, he's a REALLY prepared homesteader!

Mon