Renovating (really) old, dilapidated houses Q.

[hisenthlay]

Have any of you done this? I'm searching the real estate listings for a homestead, and I occasionally come across places like this. Places that have really neat old houses (like log cabins from the 1700s, or farmhouses from the 1800s), but they're so run down that they look like haunted houses and are definitely not liveable by normal standards. ASSUMING that the place is checked out to be structurally sound for the most part (like floors, ceilings, chimneys, and walls may have to be destroyed and rebuilt, but foundation and central supports are sturdy), is it generally more or less expensive to renovate a house like this than to build a brand new one of similar size? And is it generally more or less time consuming and emotionally exhausting to renovate or build new (if you had to choose between those two options)?

I love the idea of getting one of these houses, salvaging original details where possible, then stripping it bare and redoing it in a way that is pretty faithful to what it would've looked like when it was built. And for obvious reasons, these houses are always cheap for their area. I know of at least one for sale now that, if it were even fixed up halfway decent, would probably sell for twice the current listing price.

In my case, my fiance and I both work 50-60+ hour/week jobs right now, and we certainly don't know anything about heavy construction, so we would probably hire people to do most of the major work, and do smaller things like painting, installing/refinishing floors, installing some appliances, etc. ourselves.

Have any of you done this? Is it a reasonable project? Was it a good experience?

Thanks!

[moopups]

Haveing been a building/remodeling contractor many years back let me enlighten you of bidding practices. A new work job is bid at time per hour, materials, and 60% - 20% for taxes, 20% for missed exspences that pop up, and 20% for profit. A remodel job is bid at time, materials, and 300% - what does this tell you about the amount of labor involved with such a project?

What physical shape are you in? Can you climb a ladder 150 times per weekend? Do you have enough extra income to support sub contractors? Where will you live while this is going on? Is there someone you can turn to that will have the correct technical answers?

I am bring up these hard questions just so you will know that what your proposing is a very big bite to chew. Such projects can draw out to 2 to 3 years just to complete 90% of the job, mose final touches never get done.

Do not think twice about any building that does not have a straight ridgeline, or any saging sides. Then check with the zoneing to see if the building has been condemed long before you venture any further approach.

[daytrader]

Done it so many time I QUIT. No more old houses for me. Old worn out commercial buildings are the thing here for the good money. Every area is differant.

Now, if I could flip them under the old tax laws. Heck yes.

[Janon]

Most of us also love that idea... most couldn't even come close to affording it though. "Salvaging original detail" is called restoring, and anyone who has restored anything... be it a car, boat, house or tractor... will tell you, that its a labor of love and nowhere near practical in terms of money or time spent.

cheers,

I love the idea of getting one of these houses, salvaging original details where possible, then stripping it bare and redoing it in a way that is pretty faithful to what it would've looked like when it was built.

[TNHermit]

Id have to agree with the others. Its unfortunate that its this way. But remodel work like this is really expensive. Unless you really enjoy a challenge.have the patients of Job and just know you would never divorce over something like this I would think twice. On the other hand if you have just a boat load of money and can live someplace while its done. Go ahead.

Have done it..many times..loved it and if I were 20 years younger would do it again..IMHO, there's no difference between renovating a gorgeous old house and
roughing it in the barn while you're building a new one on your land..

People either love those grand dames or they don't..if you don't..stay away..far away.

[Maura]

If you have the money to do it, then go for it. I would not put the kind of money you are talking about into a rental. If it is a really upscale area, or soon to be upscale area, then it may be worth the effort and money.

Check out your property tax laws. You may be able to get a tax break if it is historical, or even if it isn't.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Yes, done it many times. Not log cabins, but a 1912 home, a couple of mid-fifties homes. One home made of barn scraps in the 1940's.

You will spend an incredible amount of money on remodeling unless you do the work yourself.

[Shadow]

Me and the wife have remodeled several houses Some were older out dated and required lots of work. The one we live in was built in about 1920 and nothing remains but the basic frame. completely ripped out the walls ceilings, plumbing, wiring everything but the outside walll studs.
DON'T DO IT
It was too much time labor and money, we did every thing ourselves, and still made very little money.
If you are having to hire it you can easily lose your shirt.
We did major remodleling on 16 houses over a period of 12 years and should have just watched tv after taxes it just is not worth it. David and Judy

[clovis]

I have to agree with the others. It is a labor of love.

I personally would stay away from just about anything that needed major work. Now if it needs cosmetics and a new roof and furnace, that would be a different story.

Typically, you get what you pay for, so stay with quality if you can when purchasing one of these homes. Let me tell you why:

In '93, I bought a small home built in the 1880's. It hadn't been maintained since the 1950's. Property values in the area were skyrocketing, so I bought the place, thinking I could fix it up. What you may not see in a poorly maintained home is that there are ten million problems hiding at the time of purchase. In my case, I found layers and layers of lead based paint, rotten windows repaired with caulk, and severe roof problems. I have worked and worked on the place, and I don't think I will ever be done with it.

If you can't do alot of the work yourself, I would think about staying away. The work isn't hard, but it is time consuming. Cosmetic repairs like paint, plaster, carpet, then go for it.

BTW, if you really want to restore a home, it can be done. If you hire out the work, and hire pro's that can really do the job correctly, they charge high prices. A wood refinisher I know charges $50/hour with a $2000 minimum. I usually charge $40 for plaster restoration work and $35 an hour for painting.

Get the best structure you possibly can....foundation, straight roof lines, straight walls, no termite damage, no major roof leaks.

clove

[jnap31]

Another thing I did not see mentioned I would make sure you are in a place that has no codes and inspections and permits and the like before undertaking such a project. I was thinking of relocationg an 1850's log cabin that has a caved in roof but still mostly sound logs myself to build onto.

[Beltane]

We purchased our home about 7 years ago and it had been vacant for about three years at the time. The barn also contained two apartments that were vacant as well. Prior to moving in, we had to replace all of the plumbing and electricity, but those were the only major obstacles. We drilled a new well a few years ago, and we are still saving for the new septic system we need. We continue to work on home improvements, and we try to keep with how the home originally would have looked. Both the house and the barn date somewhere between 1770 and 1780. I love old houses. I wouldn't live in anything but.

[kmaproperties]

Been building and remodeling for 25 years, that said, I agree with the others.
A home like you are explaining would take a crew of 4 guys at least 3 months at six 10-12 hr days, and mucho bucks in materials to complete. devide that all up by your 10-20 hrs per week and where are you? = 2000 professional man hrs. give or take, 100 weekends if all goes right.
As said before there is your 2-3 years and you will be sick of the place and worn out by then.

[fantasymaker]

[B]Your buying the cheapest part of the house![B] the walls in a house are a tiny fractoon of the cost .What yu are doing is seeting your self up to spend gold on clay. I have a concrete comercial building that everyone wants me to convert to apartments but what happens is the old concrete would make everything else a ton more expencive to build.
the big thing in remodeling is everything is done twice (take apart then build new) and then you are left with somthing that doesnt fit anyway!
What seems to work better is to strippout a houses and then build a new one with the salvaged details.
Thers no money in this but if its for love what can ya say!

[Cindy in NY]

Only do this if the house can be lived in while YOU are working on it, you have the money to put in it, and you love the work! It doesn't make financial sense to have someone else do the work.

We bought a 100 year old Victorian that we live in. We have been restoring about a room a year - refinishing all the woodwork (sometimes over 100 pieces per room), refinishing the floors, restoring the windows, repairing the walls and ceilings, and updating electrical. It costs us about $500 a room to do it ourselves. Most of our problems have been cosmetic. We've spent over $5,000 over the years on slate roof work that we can't do.

If you don't plan on living in it and you don't have the passion for restoring it yourselves - don't do it!

[hisenthlay]

Wow, thanks for all the input and the benefit of all your experience. I was kind of hoping that people would say, "sure, it's fun, make it a hobby, hire some work, do some work yourselves on weekends, and you'll be done in a few years and have something great for all of your efforts." But I guess I knew all along that there was more to it than that. What all of your responses really make clear to me is that this is not the sort of thing we should undertake unless we are really both 100% in love with the idea and the specific house and 100% committed to spending a lot of time and effort on it. I have a tendency to come up with big ideas, drag my guy along unwillingly at first, and then he turns out to love it and be really enthusiastic about it in the end--but that doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.

I wasn't thinking about doing this for profit--just thinking that we could by an amount of land in an area close to our jobs that we could never otherwise afford right now with a neat old house on it, and then spend money bit by bit to fix it up so that it would eventually be worth as much as the other properties in the area. Maybe someday we'd sell it and hopefully get our money back out of it, or maybe we'd want to live there forever. I was also thinking of continuing to live in our current house until the new one is liveable--our house now is about 45 minutes from the areas I'm looking in. We do have some money to spend on contractors and materials, especially if we buy a property very cheaply, but we're not in any position to be burning through it like gangbusters.

We live in a 1911 brick victorian now that was completely redone inside by the people who sold it to us. Lots of original woodwork, stained glass, etc. Notably, they sold it because they were getting divorced (although I heard the husband was abusive, so it may have had nothing to do with the renovation). We love old houses, and we like the idea of doing some remodeling so that we can make the house fit our wants and needs, but maybe I'll just stick to looking at houses in decent shape for now (unless that absolutely irresistable restoration project comes along... ).

Anyway, thanks for the reality check, guys.

[Quinton]

My wife and I bought a house that was made in 1909 and was a great 4 square type..

The neighborhood was one that would be definetly increasing in value..

The historical society sold it to us, AFTER completely reroofing, new gutters, tearing down the garage, (termites!), new sidewalks, new curbs, and then painting the exterior in the colors we wanted.

Inside we had to redo electrical, plumbing, walls, added insulation after the first winter nearly did us in with Natural Gas costs, added furnace and AC, tear out asbestos around old plumbing and old boiler system. Redid and modernized the kitchen and put in a 1/2 bath.

Netted us about $5,000 profit after selling it

[hunter63]

One thing on older houses, some times it's better to buy one, rip down almost all of it and rebuild, so as to keep the orginal foundation,drive-way, well, septic, elect or what ever it has.
Big difference on remodeling and old house, and building new,and all new services, permit and code wise.