105 acre farm in Kansas

[longshadowfarms]

Interesting listing DH found on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[bluetick]

Wow! That seems like quite a lot for the money. I wonder what the catch is!

[ThriftyMa]

I would love to live there. 105 acres. I'm headed to the port to wait for my ship to come in. So I can buy it or the other one in Mo.

[Danaus29]

Tornado Alley. I want more land but I don't like tornadoes.

[kenuchelover]

Originally Posted by bluetick

Wow! That seems like quite a lot for the money. I wonder what the catch is!

It's way up in NW Kansas, WAAAY towards the north end of the state.

Rainfall in that county has ranged roughly between 19" and 26" over the last 5 years or so (fast lookup)....they've had a drought. At best (drought over), it would likely be something in the 25"-28" range. And you'd have very cold winters.

This means you CAN'T depenably farm.... it's purely grazing land unless you want to go to the high expense of drilling wells & pumping water for irrigation. The arial photos showed the grass as pretty patchy in spots, as well.... I'd not be surprised to find shallow soil over rock in some places.

Most years, I'd lay odds even your garden would need supplemental water.

So what you've REALLY got is a decent sized but 40-something year old house with a 15 year old roof, on a smallish sized farm (for that part of the country) useful ONLY for raising cattle or hunting. Not much timber.

The local economy doesn't sound too good.... the ad SAYS (add it all up) that there are over 45,000 acres of land within that county permanantly dedicated to HUNTING & fishing by the State & federal govt.... PLUS another 32,000 acres enrolled in a "walk in hunting" program (landowners sell hunting rights to the State of Kansas, for public hunting access). That translates to 70 square miles of land nobody could farm/ranch efficiently enough to make a living PLUS another 50 square miles of land where the owners felt they had to rent off the hunting rights (wholesale to the state, no hunting clubs were interested) to the state..... which means they'd have to tolerate ANY RANDOM DAMNFOOLS with a gun & a hunting license traipsing over their property without a by-your-leave come hunting season.... something a landowner would only do if in a financial bind.

http://www.wheatonline.com/2000/news...cost120705.pdf
is a short blurb about wheat farming there.... reading between the lines, they only raise wheat with irrigation (energy costs for one farmer went up $35,000 this year). Fuel & fertilizer costs also rose dramatically. Six of his close neighbors quit farming this last year, the average farmers age is 55 & they're retiring faster than they're being replaced.

So..... this property is priced way more than it's worth. I bought a quarter section (160 acres, for any easterners on the forum) of much better quality land (40" of rainfall & deep rich soil, suitable for crops OR raising MORE cows per acre than this Kansas property would raise) down in a part of Oklahoma with much milder winters, plenty of timber and a better local economy, for only a fraction of this price. And my property taxes are lower, too. Mine doesn't have a house, but I could build one for less than the difference and STILL have gotten 52% more acres & better land at that, with better access to major cities while still being extremely private. Plus better weather.

What these folk are doing is advertising on ebay in hopes of roping in some rich "furriner" from the coasts or some highly paid cityboy..... who doesn't know that land of that type in that county probably appraises at something like half or a third of what they're asking.

[idontno]

Originally Posted by kenuchelover

It's way up in NW Kansas, WAAAY towards the north end of the state.

Rainfall in that county has ranged roughly between 19" and 26" over the last 5 years or so (fast lookup)....they've had a drought. At best (drought over), it would likely be something in the 25"-28" range. And you'd have very cold winters.

This means you CAN'T depenably farm.... it's purely grazing land unless you want to go to the high expense of drilling wells & pumping water for irrigation. The arial photos showed the grass as pretty patchy in spots, as well.... I'd not be surprised to find shallow soil over rock in some places.

Most years, I'd lay odds even your garden would need supplemental water.

So what you've REALLY got is a decent sized but 40-something year old house with a 15 year old roof, on a smallish sized farm (for that part of the country) useful ONLY for raising cattle or hunting. Not much timber.

The local economy doesn't sound too good.... the ad SAYS (add it all up) that there are over 45,000 acres of land within that county permanantly dedicated to HUNTING & fishing by the State & federal govt.... PLUS another 32,000 acres enrolled in a "walk in hunting" program (landowners sell hunting rights to the State of Kansas, for public hunting access). That translates to 70 square miles of land nobody could farm/ranch efficiently enough to make a living PLUS another 50 square miles of land where the owners felt they had to rent off the hunting rights (wholesale to the state, no hunting clubs were interested) to the state..... which means they'd have to tolerate ANY RANDOM DAMNFOOLS with a gun & a hunting license traipsing over their property without a by-your-leave come hunting season.... something a landowner would only do if in a financial bind.

http://www.wheatonline.com/2000/news...cost120705.pdf
is a short blurb about wheat farming there.... reading between the lines, they only raise wheat with irrigation (energy costs for one farmer went up $35,000 this year). Fuel & fertilizer costs also rose dramatically. Six of his close neighbors quit farming this last year, the average farmers age is 55 & they're retiring faster than they're being replaced.

So..... this property is priced way more than it's worth. I bought a quarter section (160 acres, for any easterners on the forum) of much better quality land (40" of rainfall & deep rich soil, suitable for crops OR raising MORE cows per acre than this Kansas property would raise) down in a part of Oklahoma with much milder winters, plenty of timber and a better local economy, for only a fraction of this price. And my property taxes are lower, too. Mine doesn't have a house, but I could build one for less than the difference and STILL have gotten 52% more acres & better land at that, with better access to major cities while still being extremely private. Plus better weather.

What these folk are doing is advertising on ebay in hopes of roping in some rich "furriner" from the coasts or some highly paid cityboy..... who doesn't know that land of that type in that county probably appraises at something like half or a third of what they're asking.

WHEW.....kenuchelove..WHat You been smoking?...... It's is located in north central Kansas. Calf.mover to Olkahoma..WHew what a change.Bet anything is better than Calf.EVEN OKLAHOMA.O by the way I rent my land out to hunters like you everyday.How dumb is it to pay400.00 a day to hunt ?DOn't need big crops or water.Just let the dummy come hunt for a month or two and make equal to a good crop in 2 months.Go FIGGER.AS to the farmer that his cost of fuel going up 35,000.00 wow he must let his machines run all day long.And yes I'm 55 and ready to retire.Just waiting on a Calf guy to buy.....idontno...lost in Kansas.

[Windy in Kansas]

I also take exception to your post kenuchelover as it contains a number of inaccuracies.

For starters farmers to not sell hunting rights to their property for WIHA (Walk in Hunting Area), the state leases the hunting rights, and I believe the lease is renewed annually if both parties accept the continuance.

Gardens needing supplemental watering? I've never lived in an area that didn't require SOME supplemental watering to achieve proper production. I hasten to add that I haven't lived in a rain forest however.

It isn't likely that an owner would ever be able to secure irrigation permits for that part of the country, nor would it be feasible to do so. Most Kansas irrigation takes place further south within the state or at least further west to take advantage of the Ogallala Aquifer.

While the winters are cold by my south central Kansas standards, they are far from brutal by most snow states standards though, and really don't get a very large amount of snow that isn't melted off in a couple of weeks. The wind chills will be tough as fronts haven't weaken by the time they reach this area.

Whle you certainly did better with your purchase in Oklahoma, have you lived through the humidity of summer yet? Compared to northern Kansas you would be in a roaster oven for certain. While it gets warm around the area of the farm for sale there will nearly always be some cooling breeze while the humidity will be low. Might make an attractive place for someone wanting to use electrical wind generation.

Bottom line, your opinion, but it should prompt anyone that has interest to check it out for themselves.

[kenuchelover]

Originally Posted by idontno

WHEW.....kenuchelove..WHat You been smoking?

Nothing. I don’t smoke “anything”, nor have I ever done so. Don’t drink either. Haven’t even chewed gum in over 30 years, nor chewed my nails in the last 20.

Originally Posted by idontno

...... It's is located in north central Kansas.

O.K., call it a local terminology thing. I’ve Kansas friends over in the eastern part of the state (mostly Topeka area), & I was going by their having referred to that whole general region as “western Kansas.”

Originally Posted by idontno

Calf.mover to Olkahoma..

No, I’m a born and bred Okie moving BACK to Oklahoma.

Originally Posted by idontno

WHew what a change.Bet anything is better than Calf.

The actual fact is that California really isn’t that bad if you stay away from the big cities. Where I am it’s all low desert, 3” of rainfall & summer temps up to 120F-130F. But….. you can see for 40 miles, and there’s no problem with stuff rusting on you. We've even got artesian geothermal water. Plenty of privacy, LOTS of space between houses. GOOD Mexican food out here, you ought to try the local carne asada some time. And it’s one of the most productive agricultural regions in the U.S., due to all that sunlight & irrigation water from the Colorado River. 2-3 crops a year (no real winters), depending on what’s in the rotation…. AND high yields. Good cropland here runs $4,000-$8,000 per acre. There’s even some real pretty country close by of the “omigawd it’s got green plants on it” variety.

I just wanted to go home to raise my kids.

Originally Posted by idontno

EVEN OKLAHOMA.

Heck, we considered lots of nice places…. EVEN KANSAS ended up on the list (right after OK, the Appalachians, the Ozarks, AZ & NM, etc. Eastern Kansas, that is…. there is some beatiful soil down along the rivers out there).

It’s just that eastern Oklahoma came out on top in virtually every category we considered……

Originally Posted by idontno

O by the way I rent my land out to hunters like you everyday.

No you don’t. I don’t hunt.

I don’t have any knee jerk reaction against hunting per se, I just don’t find searching out and killing something thrilling enough to personally consider it “recreation”…. and I don’t need the meat enough to go out and kill something that’s living free. I’d do it fast enough if I needed to, but I don’t need to.

Originally Posted by idontno

How dumb is it to pay400.00 a day to hunt ?

Very dumb, in my book. I honestly can’t believe Kansans are paying anything like that. On the other hand, I guess what it really boils down to is how much money people have & what they feel is worthwhile to them.

There are people out there buying $60,000 status cars, or paying $5,000,000 for a house bigger than they really need & that costs a fortune to maintain….. so if Kansans are paying you $400 per day to hunt rabbits & deer & turkey, I can’t see that as being any “more dumb”. It’s their money, after all.

Maybe it’s a personality quirk on their part?…. at that price they’re obviously NOT doing it for the meat, so it might be a “thrill of the kill” thing? And I’m sure we’d both rather have them spending their money & energies off killing animals “quickly” (& thus moderately humanely?) than keeping it bottled up & then going postal on the rest of us.

Originally Posted by idontno

DOn't need big crops or water.Just let the dummy come hunt for a month or two and make equal to a good crop in 2 months.Go FIGGER.

I did “figger”… and your hypothetical dummy would be paying $9,000-$18,000 for 1-2 months of sport hunting. Plus losing wages while out there blasting away.

Neh, you’ll pardon me if I view this claim with extreme skepticism. Are you sure this isn’t a whole hunting club instead? Or one “dummy” who turned around and charged 50 other dummies $40 per day to hunt on your property, thus turning $1,600 profit & making FOUR times off the deal than you are?

Besides, water & big crops are still relevant. The more rainfall a place gets, the more browse & cover, hence the more wildlife. And if a place gets bigger crops, it means the soil is better, again supporting more wildlife. A dry farm with poor soil isn’t worth as much, hunting wise, as a better watered farm with rich soil.

Originally Posted by idontno

AS to the farmer that his cost of fuel going up 35,000.00 wow he must let his machines run all day long.

No….. you misread both my post AND the linked article. It wasn’t his FUEL cost, it was his ENERGY cost that rose $35,000. I assume he’s pumping water for wheat irrigation.

The only fuel or fertilizer cost increases mentioned came from somebody else, a Commissioner on the Kansas Wheat Commission who gave figures (for western Kansas) only as percentages rather than flat figures:

Farm diesel costs rose 81% just this last year.
Highway diesel costs rose 51% just this last year.
Anhydrous ammonia fertilizer costs rose 56% just this last year.
Liquid fertilizer costs rose 40% just this last year.

Originally Posted by idontno

And yes I'm 55 and ready to retire.Just waiting on a Calf guy to buy.....idontno...lost in Kansas.

Well, I wish you good luck in your retirement plans. But you’ll be wasting your time waiting if you’re hoping for an Okie to buy it…. especially at a price anything like that ebay listing. They can simply get better land FAR cheaper down here.

Same for Californians, I suspect. Uh, maybe you could find somebody from New York City who’d buy….. just point out how much cheaper the land is compared to anything in upstate New York, and how the area doesn’t contain anything that terrorist groups like Al Quaida would consider a worthwhile target (unless they’re crazy enough to mistake a pair of Co-op silos for the Twin Towers).

Neh, I think your best bet is to simply keep renting out hunting rights to your land to these Kansans you claim are willing to pay $400 per day for the privilege. At that rate, you could retire in no time even without having to move off the property (just remember to duck!).

[kenuchelover]

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

I also take exception to your post kenuchelover as it contains a number of inaccuracies.

For starters farmers to not sell hunting rights to their property for WIHA (Walk in Hunting Area), the state leases the hunting rights, and I believe the lease is renewed annually if both parties accept the continuance.

Yes, that was my impression as well…. landowners “sold” their hunting rights to the state on an annual basis. (I wasn’t trying to imply it was in perpetuity).

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

Gardens needing supplemental watering? I've never lived in an area that didn't require SOME supplemental watering to achieve proper production. I hasten to add that I haven't lived in a rain forest however.

Gardens I had in Taiwan didn’t need it, my grandmother in NE Oklahoma never really needed it…. she DID keep a basin by the sink to save rinse water for the garden, but this was more to put it to some use than out of any real need. Talking to folk in SE Oklahoma suggests it’s not needed except “maybe” during one particular month….. & even then it depended on the property (many didn’t, due to factors such as soil type, slope, water retention, elevation, ground cover, etc. Poorly sited gardens need extra water there, good locations don’t).

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

It isn't likely that an owner would ever be able to secure irrigation permits for that part of the country, nor would it be feasible to do so. Most Kansas irrigation takes place further south within the state or at least further west to take advantage of the Ogallala Aquifer.

Yep, so it’s not land particularly suited for crops. It’s hay & cow land, from the sound of it.

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

While the winters are cold by my south central Kansas standards, they are far from brutal by most snow states standards though, and really don't get a very large amount of snow that isn't melted off in a couple of weeks. The wind chills will be tough as fronts haven't weaken by the time they reach this area.

I think the pertinent point here is “snow states standards”. Osbourne County WOULD have winters colder than average for the U.S., significantly colder than much of the country. Plus the storms pushing down the plains, as you noted.

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

Whle you certainly did better with your purchase in Oklahoma, have you lived through the humidity of summer yet? Compared to northern Kansas you would be in a roaster oven for certain.

Yep, I’ve lived through OK summers before. I’ve ALSO spent years in Taiwan (even more humid, year round to boot), and spent much of my life in the desert. 30-40 degrees lower summer temps is generally fair compensation for higher humidity.

(Last minute revision.... ran a search for stats out of curiousity, it turns out that BOTH areas..... Osbourne County & where I bought in SE OK.... have virtually the same humidity. Osbourne averages about 10 degrees colder in the winter, summer temps about the same. Osbourne does get a bit more wind, though, mostly in terms of a more consistant wind).

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

While it gets warm around the area of the farm for sale there will nearly always be some cooling breeze while the humidity will be low. Might make an attractive place for someone wanting to use electrical wind generation.

Bottom line, your opinion, but it should prompt anyone that has interest to check it out for themselves.

Bottom line, I wasn’t in any way trying to insult Kansas or it’s people. My biggest objection to that property was the price tag….. like I said, you can get far better land for cheaper elsewhere. I very seriously doubt that going prices are ANYTHING like that in “north central Kansas”, they’re either charging an arm & a leg on account of the 40-something year old house (which DID look nice in the photos) or else…. like I said….. hoping to attract a gullible buyer who doesn’t know local prices or comparative land value elsewhere.

I'm SURE you could get a better deal in this same county (pricewise), and a better deal for better land in other parts of Kansas. And there ARE lots of nice folks in Kansas (have to be, they live next to OK & some of it rubs off on them ).

[FarmboyBill]

I wasa born in NE Kans and lived there 25 years. I only ever so slightly vaguely remember hauling water out to the garden as a little kid in a wagon and 2 5 gal milk cans. On the contrary, now, I live 40 m SW of Tulsa, and if I want to have tomatos, I haul water by the barrell full Last year, I raised around 28 tomatos ahd I would haul a 55 gal barrell of water a week to water them

[Cat]

Wow, such an interesting debate! Having lived in KS my entire life figured I would chime in. Yes, KS was in a 5 year drought as were many states, many states are still in drought, it's a part of life. My Grandmother lives in NW Arkansas where they generally get a LOT of rain and we've had more moisture this year than they have. No one can control Mother Nature, ever!

Hunting, in Kansas, is an income generator. My friend who runs sheep charges $3,000 per week for people to come down and hunt deer on his land, and if they bag one I believe they're then charged a trophy fee? (I don't hunt so I'm not real familiar with the entire process but had to endure the 'boys' conversation recently.) If you get your deer before the week ends then you're allowed to hunt ducks, geese, pheasant, or quail for the remainder of your time. It's not Kansans that pay these prices, it's out-of-staters!!! Certainly can't imply that Kansans are fools for paying that much to hunt.

Yes, you're going to have to water your garden, your grass, your dog, your cat, etc. etc. etc. It's just a part of life here as it is in many areas, I'm sure. While we do get tornadoes on occasion, most generally they're limited to SC Kansas down near Wichita. That is the only area that has recently had severe damage from Tornadoes that devastated a decent sized area. The last 'killer' tornado that came through our way was in 1968, I believe, which was before my time.


$125 grand for a farmstead is actually fairly reasonable, as you'd pay that much for a city lot + decent house anywhere in this area. Out here, if you don't get adequate rainfall you don't maintain that amount of trees on a property very long, and I darn sure don't believe that anyone waters those! From the photos I would definitely spend that money on it were I an interested buyer, with the outbuildings, the house & hardwood flooring, corrals, etc. it's definitely worth it, IMO. (Although I don't like the outward appearance of the house, the interior does indeed look to be well-maintained.) Of course, an inspection might turn up some unforseeables, but of course no one can plan on those.

Of course, someone can find something to complain about with any piece of property, in any part of the world. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have value, just that everyone has differing opinions on what they're interested in. Of course KS has a LOT to complain about, but knowing what I know about Kansas I would definitely say that piece of land is worth the asking price.

[kenuchelover]

Originally Posted by ÇåThëRîñè

Wow, such an interesting debate! Having lived in KS my entire life figured I would chime in. Yes, KS was in a 5 year drought as were many states, many states are still in drought, it's a part of life. My Grandmother lives in NW Arkansas where they generally get a LOT of rain and we've had more moisture this year than they have. No one can control Mother Nature, ever!

Where in NW Arkansas? I've got some relatives out that way.

Originally Posted by ÇåThëRîñè

Hunting, in Kansas, is an income generator. My friend who runs sheep charges $3,000 per week for people to come down and hunt deer on his land, and if they bag one I believe they're then charged a trophy fee? (I don't hunt so I'm not real familiar with the entire process but had to endure the 'boys' conversation recently.) If you get your deer before the week ends then you're allowed to hunt ducks, geese, pheasant, or quail for the remainder of your time. It's not Kansans that pay these prices, it's out-of-staters!!! Certainly can't imply that Kansans are fools for paying that much to hunt.

Good god a mighty! $3,000 per week per person? Those are some desperate wannabe hunters! Hmmm, maybe they're all Texans..... I recall a few folk on this forum claiming that a few rich families were hogging all the hunting land in Texas (sounded odd then, but maybe there's some truth in it?).

Originally Posted by ÇåThëRîñè

Yes, you're going to have to water your garden, your grass, your dog, your cat, etc. etc. etc. It's just a part of life here as it is in many areas, I'm sure.

Strange..... all the farm dogs & cats I've had knew enough to water THEMSELVES at the nearest pond or creek. Or are you talking city dogs & cats, penned up in a yard away from natural surface water? Or indoor critters?

My folks always planted or terraced in ways to make the most out of available soil moisture.... slowing runoff so that it's more likely to seep in instead, building ponds wherever the topography would fill them naturally, keeping decent ground cover to keep the soil from drying out, and so on. "Little encouragements" like placing a rock or log to spread a rivulet out over a larger area instead of letting it run straight into a creek.

Originally Posted by ÇåThëRîñè

While we do get tornadoes on occasion, most generally they're limited to SC Kansas down near Wichita. That is the only area that has recently had severe damage from Tornadoes that devastated a decent sized area. The last 'killer' tornado that came through our way was in 1968, I believe, which was before my time.


$125 grand for a farmstead is actually fairly reasonable, as you'd pay that much for a city lot + decent house anywhere in this area.

City property prices are always FAR pricier than rural property prices.

WHAT part of Kansas is "this area" of yours, btw? Western, or a wetter part of the state? Better soil down along some of the large river floodplains? (I'm STILL in awe of the soil under Topeka.... pure black loam 20'-30' deep! And fools went & built a city on top of it! A friend of mine living there bought the adjacent lot & tore down it's house just for the additional garden space!)

Originally Posted by ÇåThëRîñè

Out here, if you don't get adequate rainfall you don't maintain that amount of trees on a property very long, and I darn sure don't believe that anyone waters those!

No, western Kansas is NOT natural timber country, most anything there tends to hug the creeks & other such sources of soil moisture (just like much of western Oklahoma). So people wanting to buy land there will have to realize that they simply aren't going to get a farm with that resource in abundance, as they might in many other parts of the country.

Uh, I suspect it's also more a matter of winter storms PLUS low rainfall than low rainfall alone. Stuff like eastern red cedar & mesquite are pretty tolerant of low rainfall, but not much survives sudden hard freezes.

Originally Posted by ÇåThëRîñè

From the photos I would definitely spend that money on it were I an interested buyer, with the outbuildings, the house & hardwood flooring, corrals, etc. it's definitely worth it, IMO. (Although I don't like the outward appearance of the house, the interior does indeed look to be well-maintained.) Of course, an inspection might turn up some unforseeables, but of course no one can plan on those.

Of course, someone can find something to complain about with any piece of property, in any part of the world. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have value, just that everyone has differing opinions on what they're interested in. Of course KS has a LOT to complain about, but knowing what I know about Kansas I would definitely say that piece of land is worth the asking price.

Makes you wonder why they're offering it on ebay, where it will be mostly seen by people unfamilar with the area...... if it's worth the asking price.

Nearly $1200 an acre for low rainfall land, that doesn't look like particularly good soil, and a long ways from large cities? I'm sorry, but I'm still VERY skeptical that the going rate in that area is anything near that high..... good house or no. Maybe they're basically selling the house & the poor land goes with it?

Hope you had a nice holiday!

[kenuchelover]

Kansas.... like most of the rest of the world.... is a fine place. I'm NOT dissing it!

But for HOMESTEADING, a western Kansas farm like this... ESPECIALLY AT THIS PRICE... is not a good choice. Indians didn't farm in this part of Kansas, there were only highly mobile tribes who hunted buffalo. And as far as White settlement went, much of the central & northern plains have been LOSING population steadily ever since they were first homesteaded back in the late 19th century. It is simply too hard to make a living in most areas.

Where this particular farm is located, rainfall is low, the photos suggest the soil is not particularly good, the winters are fairly cold & temperature can drop WAY down overnight when a storm comes in.

The most efficient use of this land is livestock.... which takes experiance to begin with & MORE experiance in tougher locations like this. And it's hard to raise enough livestock off 105 acres of land THIS QUALITY for even an expert to make a living, let alone make a living AND pay a mortgage. Yeh, maybe you can supplement income by renting out to hunters... but that's an iffy thing and can cause other problems.

The house is probably worth far more than the acreage.... but no homesteader with any brains looks at the house first & the land second. NOR would they buy poor land just because it had a nice house. If all they wanted was a nice house they'd be living in a city.... what a homesteader wants is LAND. This house is simply too LARGE (nearly 2800 square foot living area) and expensive for "homesteading". It would hold a LARGE family comfortably, but the acreage woudn't support a large family, and local demographics (town sizes, & distances to towns) make commuting to an outside job unlikely to be practical.

Many homesteaders want to raise all or most of their own food.... gardens here would be difficult and require much more human watering than most other places. So unless the homesteader planned to live off meat alone...

This PARTICULAR property "would" be nice for a LOCAL rancher who already has additional land but needs a base of operations. Maybe a family who needs to replace their old house, or a pair of newlyweds who want to go into the family business but NOT live in the same house as the old folks.

It "would" be nice for a wealthy buyer who wants an isolated "country estate" where he can live comfortably, hunt freely, and run a few cows to pretend he's ranching..... but does NOT need to make a living off the property, let alone even have it pay for itself.

No slur on Kansas, or Kansas..... but this property is NOT well suited for homesteaders. They can likely buy better & cheaper in eastern Kansas. And I KNOW (based on what I saw while hunting land) they can buy better & cheaper in central or eastern Oklahoma.

[longshadowfarms]

kenuchelover, it sure sounds like you're dissing it. Give it a rest. I posted this so that if anyone was interested, they could check it out. I think people here are intelligent enough to decide whether this would suit them or not. If nothing else, the wildlife pics are fun. Yeesh. I didn't think a simple post would cause such a ruckus.

[kenuchelover]

Originally Posted by longshadowfarms

kenuchelover, it sure sounds like you're dissing it.

What I'm dissing is this particular underproductive & overpriced piece of property..... NOT Kansas itself.

The problem is that some other posters got this mixed up, or for some reason took this personal. idontno in particular, or maybe he just doesn't like Oklahoma & Okies for some reason?

Originally Posted by longshadowfarms

Give it a rest. I posted this so that if anyone was interested, they could check it out. I think people here are intelligent enough to decide whether this would suit them or not.

I agree in full. And you'll notice I didn't criticize you for posting it, I simply gave my opinion on the property's qualities & price, accurately pointing out that people could get better deals elsewhere.

Originally Posted by longshadowfarms

If nothing else, the wildlife pics are fun. Yeesh. I didn't think a simple post would cause such a ruckus.

Neither did I. I think folks were just getting territorial on us.

[bretthunting]

let me try to set the record straight, i live in S.W. NEB. and work in N.W. Kan.
and against my better judgement i will tell you the town in case you want to see where ( Atwood) is where i work. i lived in this town until recently when we bought a small farm in neb. we grow some of the best dryland corn,wheat and milo in the state, we have been a drought for a few years but most parts of the country do this off and on. we have alot of trees,(cotton woods,elm,cedar,pines,hackberry and ash just to name a few). that price does sound a little high, but not real bad. i AM a hunter, the state leases the hunting rights, but the land owner can still farm/graze or in other words utilize the property.winters can be cold summers can be hot and yes we have tornados, but then again i dont like earth quakes or hurricanes so i'll take my chances with tornados. all in all a really nice place to live. my house well is only 22 feet deep, garden needs a little water every day, but not really that bad. if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

[idontno]

The only thing i have against Oklahoma is there is too much hot air coming from there in the summer.......NO...NO...NO.....I mean the weather....

[Iddee]

I would buy it right now if the shipping to NC wasn't so outragous.

[kenuchelover]

Originally Posted by bretthunting

let me try to set the record straight, i live in S.W. NEB. and work in N.W. Kan. and against my better judgement i will tell you the town in case you want to see where ( Atwood) is where i work. i lived in this town until recently when we bought a small farm in neb. we grow some of the best dryland corn,wheat and milo in the state, we have been a drought for a few years but most parts of the country do this off and on. we have alot of trees,(cotton woods,elm,cedar,pines,hackberry and ash just to name a few). that price does sound a little high, but not real bad.

Thanks for pitching in, it helps to have a “closer to local” firsthand source.

For comparison: Alton is ~110 miles east of Atwood, 1000' lower elevation.

I located settlement era descriptions of Osborne & (Atwood’s) Rawlins Co. http://www.kancoll.org/books/cutler/...rne-co-p1.html
http://www.kancoll.org/books/cutler/...ins-co-p1.html

NEITHER had “a lot of trees” & Osborne had only half what Rawlins did, 2% native timber compared to 4% which “as is usual in the western counties, is wholly confined to the banks of the streams.” Osborne county is steeper (more prone to soil erosion under White ag use) w/fewer creeks (likely why less timber). Land use differences likely played a role. This farm & Alton area seem to have LESS timber than in 1880, see arials off ebay listing & from online topos/arials http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.c...Alton%7cKansas & http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.c...Alton%7cKansas showing this property & environs as virtually treeless. I’ve a KS rancher friend that far north, he says it’s hell trying to get trees to survive winters, must plant in sheltered spots & even then most don’t thrive/reproduce. “Native timber” would've been old growth trees, stunted by harsh conditions. Cut by 1880's homesteaders seeking fenceposts & building materials, it simply wouldn’t have replaced itself by now. Perhaps Rawlins Co folk more foresighted, cut less or replanted? Verdict: very little timber resource or potential here.

Soil also differs, Rawlins had “rich, black loam”, while Osborne had shallower soil ranging 2’-15’ deep & in 1880 “composed of a rich vegetable mould (sic) with a liberal mixture of mineral substances, sand and lime” (translation, plowing/overgrazing, w/steep slopes & Dust Bowl to come, would remove most “rich vegetable mould” & leave mostly shallow, sandy/rocky soil, hence sparse vegetation & bare patches in many photos. Listing DID mention small group of red cedars (notoriously tough tree), perhaps as unusual enough to be selling point?.

Property erosion prone, mostly 6% slope w/some level patches & steeper spots. Has intermittant creek & small stock pond (no timber there?). Verdict: Can’t raise crops & poorer graze than when first settled.

What is raw land like that going for by Atwood? I suspect this property either overpriced or else they’re really charging for large house & tossing in 105 acre yard as inducement! What does pasture rental bring per acre there?

Originally Posted by bretthunting

all in all a really nice place to live. my house well is only 22 feet deep, garden needs a little water every day, but not really that bad. if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

I’m confused here--you say your house well “IS” only 22 feet deep, but earlier you said you recently left Atwood & now live in Nebraska. Are you talking KS or NE regarding the well?

Ouch--little water EVERY DAY for garden? I only water every 2-3 days myself & I’m in a desert! & N central OK grandparents only watered garden in a really dry year, only once a week or so even then. That was ~250 miles S of Alton/Atwood, & ~80 miles further E (190 for Atwood), w/30” normal rainfall. An extra few inches precipitation wouldn’t make that much difference, so perhaps fault lay in the wind somebody mentioned, might dry out soil & stress garden plants, making them require frequent hand watering up there?

Alton should get more rainfall than Atwood. ?Atwood would get in the low 20’s, Alton in mid or mid-upper 20’s if not for drought? Note current climate trend, drought & weather extremes are going to be more common, good idea to plan for average rainfall dropping 20% within next decade.

Neh, between low rain, slope & general unsuitability for row crops ON THIS PROPERTY, tree killing winters, lack of timber resources (cold winter but no woodlot!), impracticality of commuting to higher paying city jobs, pricetag that seems to cover more house than land, & low acreage for cattle (not enough cow units to live off…. maybe goats OK?) , I STILL have trouble seeing this as homesteader suitable.

I did a fast census lookup. Osbourne Co population has DROPPED by 2/3 since settled (started dropping immediately, lost 6% or more in first two decades alone). Only 4454 people left in 2000 (~4200 by now given current rate of decrease). Fewer & fewer people each generation have been able/willing to keep going in Osbourne Co, this does NOT bode well for folks wanting to start a life for themselves there. I’m sure it’s fine for W Kansans whose ancestors have survived 4-5 generations of winnowing under harsh conditions, quite literally bred to tolerate hard times (see, I’m NOT dissing Kansans!). But neophytes?

Maybe this is all just perspective & what folk are used to? Perhaps you’d do us the favor of looking through following & judge them as “alternative” homesteading areas (I’m NOT pushing OK per se, I’m just describing examples I’m personally familiar with, If anybody knows other good locations please chime in):

1) One grandfather farmed N of OKC. 30” of rainfall (increases as you move south & east), never irrigated but almost always got good crops (died w/6x’s as much land as started with). Rain more dependable than N Kansas (moisture from the gulf). Sloped land was pasture & raised good cattle. Good creek that never went dry, plenty of hardwood timber down by creek (pecan/oak/etc) & trees WOULD grow everywhere--constant battle to keep red cedar/etc out of pasture. Only watered garden in really dry years & even then only a weekly or two weeks type of thing. Whole region mostly good ag land, winters not bad, summers not too hot, still being heavily farmed/ranched today. Fair game (much cover by creeks). Today no land being converted for just hunting use, little/none rented out for hunting (OK up to it’s ears in game). Much good farmland goes for ~$500 per acre, often w/serviceable farmhouse. Prices get 2-4 times higher as go w/in close commute of OKC (professional people there are buying farms as “country estates” & investment opportunities, driving prices way up as you get closer to the city).

2) Next grandfather up in OK Ozarks. This WAS much poorer soil, shallow w/too much rock to hold rain well, so usually had to water garden weekly. But you could shoot deer from front porch on a regular basis, had holler w/own private echo & lots of timber & wildcrafting resources. Bears also & occasional panther drifted through. Mostly timber use or just lived on, or small scale ranching. Some crops raised on flats but best land was flooded years ago to make reservoirs for Tulsa. Prices reflect poor earning potential ($200-$300 per acre for hilly wooded land, moderate for flat, ridiculously high prices for house lots down by the lake…. retirement & recreation fueled real estate boom of sorts).

3) SE Oklahoma Co I bought land in is same size as Osbourne, but per capita income $1400 higher & population 3x higher so larger economy. 40” of rainfall (believe it or not, EXTREME SE corner of Oklahoma gets closer to 60” & even has swamps complete with Spanish moss & alligators!). It’s close enough to the gulf to gets rain from there, but intervening mountains break the back of any gulf storms & mountains to the north & a little east help shelter from weather coming down from the north. MILD winters. Summers are warm & a bit humid, but the statistics say not appreciably different than Alton Kansas. Depending on land quality & isolation, prices for good land mostly run between $400-$1500 per acre, although you can also buy halfway decent land WAY off in the boonies, or hilly rocky land a few hundred acres at a time, for as low as $200 per acre. (I’ve 3 times seen rich bottomland for sale at just $600 per acre, in the last 2 years…. once with a house & covered with a large commercial grove of pecan trees). Plenty of isolation (between distance & lots of timber), but medium to large sized towns often within commuting distance for services & job opportunities. Lots of GOOD soil. Plenty of people who barter, & live homesteading type lifestyles. LOTS of game (walking my land, I never saw less than 2-4 deer…. and I was talking aloud to myself as I walked. Several flocks of turkeys reside on & around the property. (Spiro Mounds lies 100 miles to the east along a large river, this was the center of one of the most influential moundbuilder cultures in preColumbian North America. Cahokia was bigger politically, this place was bigger religiously/spiritually. SE Oklahoma supported a LARGE Indian population back in the old days, far bigger than NE & N central areas I described, far bigger than northern Kansas).

Looking seriously at Alton (not Atwood)…. noting conditions there….. AND recalling how population has dropped steadily since settled….. which of these 4 places would you consider the most promising spots for homesteaders? Which would be most economical spot for them to locate, in terms of land prices & wage income & “raise your own food” potential? And…. would you advise someone to buy 105 acres w/BIG house……. OR a farm w/smaller house but cheaper price OR more or better acreage? Or even more/better/cheaper raw land & build own?

[kenuchelover]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

I wasa born in NE Kans and lived there 25 years. I only ever so slightly vaguely remember hauling water out to the garden as a little kid in a wagon and 2 5 gal milk cans. On the contrary, now, I live 40 m SW of Tulsa, and if I want to have tomatos, I haul water by the barrell full Last year, I raised around 28 tomatos ahd I would haul a 55 gal barrell of water a week to water them

What is your Tulsa soil like? Assuming tomatoes spaced every 2 foot, you're talking giving them .84" of water per week (same thing as 43" of rainfall per year).

This is a VERY high water requirement (especially given Tulsa's own annual rainfall).... was the ground perhaps very sandy, or very clayey? Shallow? Had you used any mulch?