Off Grid and the Cold...

seedspreader · #1 12/12/05, 05:16 PM

We are grid tied, and I have to be honest, I have been thankful the last few weeks.

I have a diesel tractor which I use almost every day (man is that thing good on fuel!) and I plug in the heater block every night. It sure does start nice that way, otherwise, when it is so cold, lots of ether and a battery jump pack, even then it's not a guaranteed start.

So how do you off gridders deal with some of these type things? (Those in the north country I mean)

Tell me about your cold dealings!

Edited because I spelled ETHER ~ either... LOL

Gary in ohio · #2 12/12/05, 09:25 PM

I know some people will bring the battery inside on COLD nights. Keeps the battery warm an ready to start.

seedspreader · #3 12/12/05, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary in ohio

I know some people will bring the battery inside on COLD nights. Keeps the battery warm an ready to start.

That would definitely help, I would imagine that the engine gelling and the viscosity of the oil would still be a big problem.

I know I hate it when my "freeze free" hydrant freezes back by the barn, I can only imagine the hassle that off gridders have with some of those things.

Jim-mi · #4 12/12/05, 10:13 PM

And if some one is relying on a diesel genny and they haven't done their homework properly ... gelled diesel fuel ...
not a good thing. Many a trucker from the deep south, hauling a load north, has experienced the woes of gelled fuel. The additive to prevent gelling is pricey.

Up in my neck of the woods propane fueled gennys are by far the best way to go for Cold weather.

And of course my Carharts to keep the bod warm.

wy_white_wolf · #5 12/12/05, 10:43 PM

Mixing about 1 gallon of unlead gas into 20 Gallons of diesel will lower the gelling point by about 20 degrees and doesn't affect the running of the engine.

Also when I worked Exploration if we where expecting it to get below -25 we would drain the oil out and warm it on a stove in the morning before putting it back in.

Gary in ohio · #6 12/13/05, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy_white_wolf

Mixing about 1 gallon of unlead gas into 20 Gallons of diesel will lower the gelling point by about 20 degrees and doesn't affect the running of the engine.

Your values are right, just the wrong fuel, its 1 gallon on kerosense to 20 gal of diesel.

michiganfarmer · #7 12/13/05, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy_white_wolf

Mixing about 1 gallon of unlead gas into 20 Gallons of diesel will lower the gelling point by about 20 degrees and doesn't affect the running of the engine.

Also when I worked Exploration if we where expecting it to get below -25 we would drain the oil out and warm it on a stove in the morning before putting it back in.

My brother lived in anchorage alaska for a couple years. He said the oil drillers let the trucks, and dozers run all winter. They said at -50 and below the engines would never start

michiganfarmer · #8 12/13/05, 06:41 AM

I grew up an a dairy farm. My dad had a 2 cylinder diesel John Deere. It would start down to about -10 without starting aid. a couple times when the temp got colder he took a bunch of coals from the wood stove, put them in a steel bucket, and set them under the tractor for an hour

mpillow · #9 12/13/05, 06:56 AM

I know that deisel and #2 fuel oil are about the same product despite coloring and tax issue and folks here in Maine who have outdoor oil tanks for their furnaces go to a 50/50 mix of #2/kerosene if they are smart.....when hubby was "on call" burnerman I cannot tell you the number of times he had to address gelling....it doesnt save money to risk it eventhough kerosene is more money it was $60 for hubby to drive into the dooryard to thaw the oil tank and unplug all the other stuff.

When I was on the schoolbus gelling became an issue at about -10. Every year it was a problem...even for drivers with 10 years experience....and they do plug the buses in...gelling would often occur midway thru route.

LisaInN.Idaho · #10 12/13/05, 10:09 AM

We've had no problems down to -30 with our John Deere because of the engine glow plugs. It starts right up every time.

freeinalaska · #11 12/13/05, 11:41 AM

The winter efforts to keep our vehicles running is one of the biggest challenges up here. Nothing starts after a night of -40. On a typical 40 below morning I will get up and start the propane heater in the generator shack at around 4:00 AM. After coffee, about an hour later, the generator (gas) will start happily so I can plug in the block heater for the truck. After another hour and a half the truck will start.

Another method is to pull my parachute over the entire vehicle and run a propane weed burner under the rig for an hour and the start the truck. Something about open flames in the vicinity of a gas tank make me nervous though.

Two years ago I bought an auto-start for my primary work truck. This has a feature that starts the vehicle when the engine block temperature drops to 0 degrees F. At -50 the truck will start about every hour and a half and run for 18 minutes. This does use more fuel than I want, but ensures a vehicle is always ready in case of an emergency.

Ah...the pleasures of winter in the northlands. A morning like this one with the temps being a mild -15 seems spring like.

Jolly · #12 12/13/05, 01:00 PM

Drove a diesel VW for years. VW recommended one gallon of regular unleaded to 9 gallons diesel for extreme cold weather.

LisaInN.Idaho · #13 12/14/05, 09:54 AM

My husband says we also have an air intake pre-heater that heats the combustion air going into the engine.

FrankTheTank · #14 12/14/05, 10:35 AM

A trip to Siberia...

Quote:

My nose was one reliable gauge: at zero degrees, it crackled when I breathed as the hair in my nostrils froze; 20 degrees colder, and it would stream and then freeze. At minus 40, an apple froze solid in my hand when I paused too long between bites. Plastic becomes rock-hard within seconds. The soundman's wire cables froze into absurd shapes. The resin grips on my Extremities mittens became sharp and rigid like plastic hatchets. When I retreated indoors, Edward Scissorhands turned into Mr. Magoo as a thick layer of ice formed on my glasses. I would stumble around blindly in the dim lamplight, trying not to trip over discarded footwear or collide with the woodstove. It took me a week to realize that the sore on the bridge of my nose was a frost burn caused by the metal frame of my spectacles.

http://staging.travelandleisure.com/...285FAC5E5FB5B3

I was just thinking about grid power last night. It does really come in handy!

WisJim · #15 12/14/05, 10:40 AM

A block or other engine heater run for just a few hours (use a timer for convenience) doesn't add that much load to my PV/wind generator system. If I needed to start a diesel every morning no matter what the weather I would also keep it inside. I have found heated work space for winter mechnical jobs is cheaper in the long run than buying newer vehicles, and that keeping the tractor under a roof and out of the wind, even if the space is unheated, makes a big difference in cold weather starting. and then, as I said, the amount of power used by an oil or block heater isn't enough for me to worry about. Back when I had a strictly DC system, I used a 100 watt bulb under the engine, with a tarp over the top to contain the heat.

bbbuddy · #16 12/14/05, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

I know I hate it when my "freeze free" hydrant freezes back by the barn, I can only imagine the hassle that off gridders have with some of those things.

A freeze proof hydrant can't freeze if installed correctly, as all the water drains down below ground. It either is installed so the valve is above your frost level, or there is something wrong with your dry-well that it should drain into. We used large rockfilled plastic sandbags (they are not water proof) with plastic tubing running into them when we installed ours, and have no problems at all. Use the water outside all the time when it is 1to 3F and they are just fine.
This summer dig it up and fix whatever problem it has....you probably need a bigger better dry-well.

LisaInN.Idaho · #17 12/14/05, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy

I know I hate it when my "freeze free" hydrant freezes back by the barn, I can only imagine the hassle that off gridders have with some of those things.

Ours haven't ever frozen and it's been pretty cold at -30!

seedspreader · #18 12/14/05, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbbuddy

A freeze proof hydrant can't freeze if installed correctly, as all the water drains down below ground. It either is installed so the valve is above your frost level, or there is something wrong with your dry-well that it should drain into. We used large rockfilled plastic sandbags (they are not water proof) with plastic tubing running into them when we installed ours, and have no problems at all. Use the water outside all the time when it is 1to 3F and they are just fine.
This summer dig it up and fix whatever problem it has....you probably need a bigger better dry-well.

Yup, it's on my list, it was installed when I bought the place and has given me problems...

mink · #19 12/14/05, 03:58 PM

i work for a highway dept and our fuel is cut 50-50 diesel and kerosene....we plow at -25 sometimes and never have a problem with gelling. i use 50-50 in my tractor at home and i never plug it in unless its below 0..... oh another tip see if you can have glow plugs installed. i plug mine in on the cold days for an hour or so and it takes right off with just the glow plugs and no ether...mink