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11/22/05, 04:14 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,197
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Plumbing Questions 'cause Plumber Vanished
Hi everyone. Sure is nice to visit here in the comfort of my own cabin for the first time in 4.5 months. I've had so many "do it yourself" questions that I was going to burst for a while. This forum is indispensable and I really appreciate it. Anyways... I have a 119 gallon pressurized water tank that I need to hook up to a woefully inadeqaute 12 v shurflo on a temporary basis. I need the tank 'cause the tankless water heater ignites on water pressure. I know it will be tough on the little shurflo but my new pump is 24v and I don't have four solar panels yet to hook it up (24v needs pairs of panels and batteries). The tank is a well saver and I need instructions for a simpleton like me. BTW, my pump is 1/2 inch pipe and the house piping is 1/2 inch but the tank has 1.5 inch opening. Now that I can access the internet at leisure, I can use your links if you have any. The tank didn't come with instructions
 Thanks!
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11/22/05, 04:32 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 411
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Marcia-my handyman, who has been a plumber since 1979 says, he doesn't think there will be enough pressure to engage a tankless water heater due to the fact you are using a 12 or 24 volt pump, which will not be enough pressure-He thinks you would need a 110 pump motor with a pressure device to maintain pressure to the water heater-hope this makes sense to you, as I have no clue!
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11/22/05, 05:12 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,072
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Woohoo  So glad to see you back!
Deb- who has no idea on your problem, but just excited to see you here.
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11/22/05, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Zone 7
Posts: 10,559
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With no water pressure in the tank set the air to 2 lbs. below the cut in pressure that you would want the pump to come on. This will pressurize the tank to some level and give drawdown.
__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!
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11/22/05, 05:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: GA
Posts: 927
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Sorry I can't help with the problem but wanted to tell you that I'm glad you're back. I've wondered how things were going with you. Please post some pictures of your cabin soon.
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11/22/05, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.E., Tn
Posts: 28
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hello,
do you know the pressure it takes to ignite your tankless water heater ?
if I remember correct , and depending on the model , 5psi might be all you will get out of the sureflo at best.
Sureflow's are more of a transfer pump [ bilge ],than a pressure pump .
I tried to search for manufacture's info with no luck so far . I'm relying on my memory of past use of these pumps and am have a case of "sometimer's" right now .
Edited because: I must type slow , a couple of responses while I typed 
Last edited by walkinghorse; 11/22/05 at 05:32 PM.
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11/22/05, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Carthage, Texas
Posts: 12,261
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Hi Tango
Does your tankless heater activate on pressure? or flow? I've looked at them in the past for myself and others, and my understanding is when 'flow' is sensed, the tank's heating system *gas or electric* starts heating water. Hard to imagine one working off pressure alone, as a regular home always has water pressure on the supply side of the heater.
I don't know if you're going to be happy either, with a 24vdc shurflo...reckon you can find out...
Back when I was wet behind the ears, so to speak, with alternative energy, I used a shurflo 12v pump, but without a tank...when I needed to run a tub of water or do dishes, I'd flip a switch hardwired to the shurflo, and I'd get a little teensy weensy bit of pressure, maybe 2 or 3 pounds. To solve my problem, I elevated my tank higher than my house, pumped water into the tank, then relied on gravity feed for pressure, no need for the battery eating shurflo. I've since built a lake about a hundred yards up the hill from my home...now I have a modest 10lbs pressure, without the need of a pressure pump...through a gravity flow line out in the middle of the lake...
good luck...I know it's no fun not having water pressure...just think how much more you'll appreciate 'having' pressure, when you get your system set up...
__________________
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming
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11/22/05, 06:16 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.E., Tn
Posts: 28
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texican reminded me of something that may help on the pressure.
for every 2.3ft in elevation of your water tank you can get an extra pound of water pressure if you are careful on the friction loss on your water line.......
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11/22/05, 06:59 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Whiskey Flats(Ft. Worth) , Tx
Posts: 8,749
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...................Tango , your controller should beable to accept\manage power inputs from about 4 different sources :solar panels , batterys , wind generator and a Gas powered generator . Lets say you had a 2000 watt controller , solar panels and a wind generator and a 5,000 watt gasoline generator . And , lets say your 110 volt ac powered water pump is activated by the pressure switch and it requires say 3000 watts to start and run....which is MORE than your 2000 watt controller CAn provide via the battery's and solar panels working together . So , what happens IS , IS that the controller AUTOmatically senses a Large load and It will AUTOmatically Start the Generator and allow it to RUN as long AS the water pump is running . When the water pump is shutdown by the pressure switch on the Tank , the Generator is NOT needed and will be turned OFF by the Controller if the system is set UP correctly . fordy... 
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11/22/05, 07:10 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Whiskey Flats(Ft. Worth) , Tx
Posts: 8,749
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..............Addendum....Here is what you need UNtil you get a complete solar system . First , you need a 110 volt water pump for your pressure tank . Next , you need a 5 kw generator with a REmote state kit . Everytime your pressure tank gets low on pressure You can REmotely start the generator then allow the pressure switch to activate the 110vac pump !!
.............Also , that tankless water heater can over heat IF the VOLume of water is substantially LESS than it was designed FOR . The shureflow 12vdc pump won't do the job UNless your tankless waterheater is Properly matched to the flowrate of the shureflow . fordy...
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11/23/05, 07:05 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,197
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Good morning everybody  Ooh boy, Thanks for the welcome back and the advice. The Aquastar ignites on water pressure. It needs 30 psi to ignite (has no pilot). The reason for the pressure tank is to supply the 30 psi directly to the Aquastar. The good folks at backwoods solar told me the shurflo would do for a temporary set up to fill the pressurized tank while I get the 24v dankoff installed when I get the extra panel. I know the little shurflo won't suply the pressure by itself. It is a tough little motor and I highly recommend it for off gridders with minimal water usage (as I was for the past few months).
Fordy, my controller is 60 amp which I am sure can handle a 110 motor but I don't have an inverter at present to handle that type of output or surge. 24v pumps don't have the starting surges of ac pumps. I won't be able to afford a generator for a while
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11/23/05, 09:49 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fl Zones 11
Posts: 8,120
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Tango- it's great to see you back!! We missed you!
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