Poaching for Food(ROUND TWO)

[Oilpatch197]

After reading the original topic, isn't there a code that if your starving you can kill animals legally to survive?

Yep, it's a secret code and you do it secretly! Shssshhhh!

[Jenn]

Why is it bad (in the opionion of some of you) to get charity- welfare or food bank aid- but not to 'illiegally' poach either on public or your own land?

[Country Doc]

This thread reminded me of an old joke.

A man in Louisiana is caught shooting a bald eagle. He is brought before the judge to plead for mercy. He tells the judge his kids are hungry and he was duck hunting. He didn't get any ducks so he shot the eagle to keep the kids from starving. The judge, with a tear in his eye, says "ok i will let you off this time but don't do it again".
As the man is leaving the courtroom the judge asks " by the way , what does a bald eagle taste like"? The man answers "sort of like a whooping crane".

[mpillow]

Personally I'd rather have game on my table or homegrown meat and protien vs. hormone laden crap you buy at the store.
So the secret is that poached meat is better for you.

But here's to hoping none of us will need to resort to it!

[BigBoy]

If there is an animal on my property that I want for food then there is only one definition of the word poach.

Poach (põch)
To cook in a boiling or simmering liquid: Poach the quail in wine.

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by Jenn

Why is it bad (in the opionion of some of you) to get charity- welfare or food bank aid- but not to 'illiegally' poach either on public or your own land?

Jenn,

As I stated in the other poaching thread I would do either if need be but I think as a homesteader it's generally preferable to rely on yourself than rely on the government to take care of you. I think that's why some people think a handout is "bad"

Of course government paid healthcare in Canada and England sounds pretty nice though

[Haggis]

In one way or another every American takes handouts from the government; even if some folks pay more for their handouts than others.

We have so many laws in America that it is impossible to not break the law in nearly eveything we do in our daily lives. Odd thing is that the same person who will have one too many on Friday night and then drive home on public highways, will drive over the speed limit on the way to work every morning; in both cases endangering innocent human lives, will then speak of a subsistance poacher as if he were Charles Manson.

I've always thought is was wrong to enter on another's property without permission, and even worse to shoot their game without permission, but there have been a great may folks who have told me to help myself to any game, in season or out of season, if I had an empty pot at home.

When I was very poor and my children very small I was given to squirrel and rabbit harvesting in a big way, and viewed game seasons as quaint guidelines. Most of the "off season" deer we ate were given to us by wealthy farmers who delighted in shooting every deer they saw. I was friends with one large scale farmer who didn't allow hunting on his land but he did allow me to trap furs. He asked me one day if my snares could catch deer and I told him they could. He didn't want the deer killed by the snares, he wanted them "leg snared" so he could just drive right up on his ATV and shoot them. I'd set the snares, tell him where they were, and every once in a while he'd show up at the house with a field dressed deer for me.

[caballoviejo]

I think of poaching as what was done on the King's land during the Robin Hood times when Prince John had usurped the throne and was taxing the populace into oblivion.


I don't comprehend "poaching" on one's own land, as if the King owned it.


If animals are on my land they are mine.

[michiganfarmer]

Jen, My problem with government help is that is exactly what the government wants. They dont want us thinking for, or doing for ourselves. They want us to be dependant on them. I can understand you wanting to protect wildlife from being over hunted. It would help if you understood that a lot of people here dont want handouts from the government. A lot of people herre want to make their life on their own what ever way they see fit. You may not like it, but that knowlege may help you understand people with the views you dissagree with

[michiganfarmer]

just because the state makes a law, that does not make it right

[JAK]

Depends.

All laws aside, I think it depends on how you are managing this land you claim to be yours. If you flatten out Hell's half acre and pave it, I don't think you have any right to shoot every moose, bear, deer, rabbit, or squirrel that happens to stumble out onto your parking lot.

On the other hand, if your farm or woodlot is managed in such a way that it is a natural habitat which provided natural food and shelter for various sorts of animals, then you might be able to claim some natural title. In New Brunswick, one square mile of forest concurrently supports, on average, perhaps 1 Moose, 1/2 Bear, 3 Deer, and various other critters, and perhaps 10-20 cord of wood. That doesn't mean however that you can harvest all that each and every year sustainably. Perhaps 1/2 cord of wood, plus some fruit, nuts, and some land set aside for crops and perhaps some livestock. In addition to this, and the biomass that is neccessarily re-invested into the land to keep it healthy, how much game meat can really be harvested sustainably? I would guess perhaps 100 pounds per square mile of land of mixed use; less if you raise grazing livestock; more if you don't farm or manage a woodlot very intensively and deliberately manage it, or leave it, as a wildlife habitat. I live in the city and have an acre out in the woods that I leave pretty much intact. By my reckoning I think that entitles me to something like 1/2 a grey squirrel, if I don't run over it first.

Now, the way hunting is supposed to work is that everyone collectively provides land for game to thrive, and everyone collectively has a right to hunt responsibly. Some people are better at doing more than their fair share of the former, and some people are better at doing more than their fair share of the latter. But isn't that always the way. We all gotta eat somehow, and someplace, but that includes the critters, not just us.

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by Haggis

Odd thing is that the same person who will have one too many on Friday night and then drive home on public highways, will drive over the speed limit on the way to work every morning; in both cases endangering innocent human lives, will then speak of a subsistance poacher as if he were Charles Manson.

Excellent point Haggis

Another point that amuses me is that in some of the high class neighborhoods in my area there are deer that are decimating the suburban landscapes by browsing shrubs. The residents want their expensive landscaping and shrubs but don't want any deer killed. For several years there was much talk of shooting deer with contraceptives and other wacky schemes to avoid killing the deer.

After a few years of talk, those landscape plantings must have been deemed more important because they let a select group of experienced bow hunters in the area to kill off some of the deer.

[JAK]

Originally Posted by Ed K

Excellent point Haggis

Another point that amuses me is that in some of the high class neighborhoods in my area there are deer that are decimating the suburban landscapes by browsing shrubs. The residents want their expensive landscaping and shrubs but don't want any deer killed. For several years there was much talk of shooting deer with contraceptives and other wacky schemes to avoid killing the deer.

After a few years of talk, those landscape plantings must have been deemed more important because they let a select group of experienced bow hunters in the area to kill off some of the deer.

We have all sorts of deer in our neighbourhood, right here in the city (small city). I see at least one every night. There was 8 on our front lawn the night my wife went into labour six years ago. Of course they eat our vegetables, shrubs, trees, and anything else they can. Bow hunters have generously offered their services. Residents have gracefully declined. Most residents, myself included, prefer to see all the deer, as much as they love all their shrubbery. Perhaps we are low class.

I wouldn't mind some selective management by bowhunters on an annual basis, but not a cull. The population seems stable. I have noticed this last year some late fawns that seem too small to last the winter, but I don't think that is for lack of food. I think the deer population does migrate outward from the city on its own, and provides ample opportunity for hunters in the cities outskirts. Our city might be an exception because we are a city with lots of trees surrounded by lots of forest. We also don't have lyme disease, yet, though it has just been reported on the news today in Nova Scotia, so it may be here already. Saint John, New Brunswick.

[Ed K]

[QUOTE=JAK]Perhaps we are low class.QUOTE]


Sorry if I implied that did not mean to. My intention was only to state that the folks in the neighborhood described want their cake and to eat it too by having thir shrubs protected by deer contraceptive darts while still enjoying that the deer are there to look at. Meanwhile people in nearby areas in the lower economic strata would like to have these folks deer and eat them too

No offense meant

[bretthunting]

one other thing that i would like to add is that deer,like the bear,moutain lion etc. will become accustomed to people and loose their fear and then you all i am sure are aware of some of the ramifications. more deer/car acc. the animal attacking people etc. and you know how deer become during the rut.

[Cornhusker]

Originally Posted by bretthunting

one other thing that i would like to add is that deer,like the bear,moutain lion etc. will become accustomed to people and loose their fear and then you all i am sure are aware of some of the ramifications. more deer/car acc. the animal attacking people etc. and you know how deer become during the rut.

I'd be more worried about that 1/2 bear.
If I needed food, I'd go get it on my own land. If I had to go on somebody else's land, I'd get permission to be there.
If somebody comes on our place and starts shooting, I'd probably think I was under attack and shoot back.

[heather]

Is there really anyone here who HAD to poach an animal to have something to eat?
There was nothing else in all the land that you could eat except a poached animal?
I find that hard to believe -
I'm not arguing really - I'd do it in a heartbeat, if I had to -
I just find it hard to believe that anyone would have to

[bretthunting]

heather
hope i do not offend anyone, but really anything you shoot nowdays has a season. rabbits,upland game,waterfowl,deer etc. the only thing that does not are song birds which are illeagal to shoot,so that to would be poaching.that is unless you like eating coyotes or prairie dogs.

[heather]

I know, that's why I'm asking - how in the world could you be that starving that you'd have to poach - has anyone not heard of a contraption called a freezer?! Hunt in season; freeze some meat
How hard is that?