Yet another firewood question...

thebugguy · #1 10/27/05, 10:18 AM

Folks-

I have a few questions regarding the commerical viability of sawing and selling standing deadwood as firewood. I've managed to cut and stack pretty much all the wood I'll need this winter, and while looking around for next year's supply, I see a LOT of standing dead trees on my property. While it's getting a little late in the season, I'd love to make a little money this fall by hacking up and selling some of the already dead trees (elm, oak, and hickory, for the most part). I've just spent the better part of 2 hours on google trying to find information on the quality of standing deadwood as firewood and have been disappointed with the information out there.

So, my questions are:

Will people pay for deadwood, or do people expect their firewood to be cut live and then fully seasoned?

Does standing deadwood require seasoning, or can I cut, sell, and burn it this fall?

How "dead" does wood have to be before there is serious degredation of BTU content?

I'll cut up a bunch this winter for myself and to sell next fall (if I can find a place to get it all out of the elements), but I'd love to bring in a little money now without selling an inferior product to someone.

Any advice or experience out there?

Thanks,

thebugguy

WindowOrMirror · #2 10/27/05, 11:23 AM

Deadwood is "seasoned" while standing... for a couple of years. After that, viability goes down. I don't "the curve", but hardwoods would go slower (in general) than softwoods.

I am burning dead elm that I felled and split (fun). Around here, firewood goes $100 a full cord... that's a LOT of work for $100.

R

thebugguy · #3 10/27/05, 11:43 AM

Red Devil-

I've split my fair share of elm- what a pain! Luckily, the dead elm I have are small enough so that, in general, only the lowest 5 or 6 feet of trunk needs splitting- the rest is small enough in diameter to be useful as-is.

Part of my problem is that I've only owned this property for about 1.5 years, so I don't have a good grasp on exactly how long some of this stuff has been dead... Next time I get the chance, I'm going to saw through some different species of apparently different ages to get a feel for how punky they are.

Still, it seems that someone, somewhere out there would have some data as to the BTU degredation of wood...

cheers,

thebugguy

Gary in ohio · #4 10/27/05, 12:09 PM

People will pretty much buy whatever is cheapest. Standing dead wood is fine. ONce you cut it down you will know if its usable. If it falls apart its junk. If its solid, it sellable.

**Cabin Fever** · #5 10/27/05, 12:32 PM

I'm with Gary on this one. I can tell right away when I cutting a dead tree down whether or not it's any good to burn by how easy it is to cut and by the look of the sawdust. That's not to say that the limbs might not be okay....a lot of times they are.

If you see a dead birch in the woods....don't even bother with it!

There's nothing wrong with dead wood if it's solid.

BTUs in wood is dependant upon dry weight. All tree species have same BTU content per pound of dry wood. So, if the dead wood that you're cutting up feels "heavy"...it has a good BTU content.

thedonkeyman · #6 10/27/05, 01:06 PM

A labor of LOVE. I have cut split and sold WOOD for years. People want seasoned, clean and stacked wood, free of BUGS. I use to sell it for 20.00 a cord, and had to get it out with a Mule. But I'm 66 and that was some time ago. Wood here in this area is 150. per cord. Get a wood Splitter and save your muscles for sawing. Use a BUZZ saw on the small stuff, as a large BLADE is better to keep sharp than a Chain saw. Make sure you know how to sharpen a Chain Saw as dead HARDwood will be hard on it. If you have alot of Trees then setting up a small mill would be productive, with a moving belt to carry the wood to a pile (or better a Trailer)after the spitter. You could work it up the woods OR skid everything out and pile it at a area so when it RAINS you won't have to work in the MUD. DEAD TREES are DANGEROUS, hope you know how to fall one? Watch out for the LIMBS at the top to come down. Don't work ALONE. Have FUN.

bare · #7 10/27/05, 01:36 PM

I have a different theory. I try to leave my dead standing conifers here on the place for "emergency" wood. I have many that have been dead standing for more than 25 years here and they are still sound.

comfortablynumb · #8 10/27/05, 01:43 PM

dead elm wood if its solid dries out like hard bone.. it dulls my chainsaw its so hard.

it burns great..

thebugguy · #9 10/27/05, 02:03 PM

Thanks for the comments so far, folks.

Cabin Fever- you're right about the BTU content as a function of dry weight. I was wondering what effect long-term weathering/fungal action/insect damage had on the BTU content, but I suppose just hefting a piece should tell me if it's still any good. That's where I'll just have to get some experience...

I'm still wondering about moisture content, though. So long as I'm not cutting and stacking it in a rainstorm, would you consider standing deadwood appropropriate to toss on the fire fresh from the woods?

Thedonkeyman- yep, a lot of work, but it beats bagging groceries for bringing in a little extra income. I'm not going to try to support myself doing it (already have a 40hr/week job and no way to buy the proper equipment for large-scale cutting), but even selling a couple extra cords a year would help out. And yeah, I've felled a few trees at this point but am nowhere near an expert. Early on I nearly caught the butt end of a log under the chin as the d**n thing bounced in my face. I quickly learned a healthy respect for falling trees!

Comfortablynumb- I sharpen my chain after every outing and bring them (I have two of them) back in for "professional" sharpening about every 24 hours of use. It's pretty easy to tell when hand-sharpening just doesn't help much more...

cheers,

thebugguy

apirlawz · #10 10/27/05, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebugguy

I'm still wondering about moisture content, though. So long as I'm not cutting and stacking it in a rainstorm, would you consider standing deadwood appropropriate to toss on the fire fresh from the woods?

We have lots of standing dead elm on our farm. A blessing and a curse - yes you can burn it right after cutting (it burns beautifully!), however, it really does do a number on blades. We have 3 or 4 in constant rotation. Being young and really, really dumb, my dh and I still split the stuff with a maul. But really, it's not so bad once you get your "technique" down.

This year, we had storm after storm that blew the tar out of the trees in the area. (of course, none of them came through the farm...kept missing us by a mile or so all summer!

) Soooo, we have tons of maple and elm to be cut, split and stacked for next year... I have a feeling we might end up renting a log splitter pretty soon...lol!

**Cabin Fever** · #11 10/27/05, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebugguy

....would you consider standing deadwood appropropriate to toss on the fire fresh from the woods?.....

Believe it or not, standing dead trees continue to transpire water. Not as much as when the tree had leaves, but some, nonetheless. For this reason, the wood should still be cut, split and seasoned...at least the trunk wood should be. Sometimes the branches are dry enough to burn right away.

bare · #12 10/27/05, 03:14 PM

How do they still transpire water Cabin? I would think that a tree would have to have an intact cambium layer and needles/leaves to transpire.

'Round these parts, THE most desirable wood is called "buckskin", which could be any species of dead standing wood without bark. Some old dead standing Larch and Douglas Fir have probably been standing for decades.

Hovey Hollow · #13 10/27/05, 03:19 PM

I'm not sure where they got their information but according to the owner's manual of the stove we are looking at, standing deadwood can be considered 2/3 seasoned. Dead wood on the ground should be considered wet.

**Cabin Fever** · #14 10/27/05, 03:30 PM

Perhaps transpire was the wrong word. You see, all of those vascular bundles of cabrium, phloem and xylem are like capillary tubes or like a wick, they will "suck" water up into the tree for a long time.

bare · #15 10/27/05, 03:51 PM

Ach, it's all semantics. Wood is wood and it's all BTU's. Some better and more than others but it all will burn eventually.

::bare, who's pretty picky about his wood, but still will stop in the middle of the road to pick up a piece that's fallen off someones truck::

apirlawz · #16 10/27/05, 04:09 PM

CF, you scared me there for a while. It does make sense, though, if the bark and cambium are still intact. The "straight to the fire" wood that I was talking about is what Bare referred to as buckskin - waaaay dead, bare, and so bleached, it's practically white. It's as hard as a flippin' rock and starts burning immediately.