Impossible to officially cancel "Lanzing.net" dialup isp

HermitJohn · #1 09/08/11, 03:31 PM

The cancellation page on their website is down. The cancellation form download to mail/fax is down. When I call their 800 number it just goes to voicemail and they dont respond, I've called like 5 times.

So whats next step? This is apparently a smallish isp, they dont have the India call center like AOL and Earthlink and some of the other biggies used to have. But they have effectively made it impossible to cancel just by disabling all methods their terms of service requires to cancel And in TOS it states that I am not considered canceled until I get a cancellation confirmation from them. So if I just get my credit card to change my card number then they may not be able to charge me directly, but have feeling they will try to turn over bills to collection agency.

So do I contact my state's attorney generals office or what?

foxtrapper · #2 09/08/11, 03:34 PM

Mailing Address: LanZing Internet 3807 Glasgow Dr. Lansing, MI. 48911

Cancel by letter.

HermitJohn · #3 09/08/11, 03:50 PM

Uh, they have disabled the official form download that their TOS requires to cancel by USPS. And what makes you think if they wont answer their phone or acknowledge voicemails, that they will respond to a letter? I can send it certified, but if they just ignore it and wont sign for it, then I am just out more money.

Assume they are total jerks and just arent going to respond or deal with me in any manner, whats the next step? That is my question.

Immaculate Sublimity · #4 09/08/11, 04:00 PM

I'd start with the BBB, lodge a formal complaint there - gather info on other complaints, or be the first... then maybe a call to the FCC for advice on how to proceed.

mnn2501 · #5 09/08/11, 04:01 PM

Send them a certified letter return receipt requested canceling their service. Keep a copy of the letter you send them and of course the return receipt you get back when they receive the letter. Contact your credit card company and do what you need to to have them stop allowing charges from that company.

Assuming they don't accept your letter, at the same time contact the BBB and file a complaint, then if you get a collection agency calling you can do whats called a 'drop dead letter' meaning they can not contact you every again. The only thing they can do is to take you to court at which time you pull out the copy of the letter you sent, the certified letter they didn't accept and your copy of the BBB letter you sent.

Send an email to their sales account sales@lanzing.net and at cc yourself as additional evidence, letting them know their cancelation links don't work (they don't, I tried them myself) and telling them to cancel your acount immediatly.

Bearfootfarm · #6 09/08/11, 04:29 PM

Quote:

In the event you want to cancel the Service, you must notify the Company in writing thirty (30) days prior to such cancellation. This notice must either be faxed or mailed to the Company or otherwise delivered in accordance with the Company’s policies.

It doesn't say you have to use their form.

Send them a Certified letter stating you wish to cancel and you're done (legally)

Send copies to your Attorney General and your bank/card company at the same time, and tell the bank/card company you will not authorize payments ofter 30 days

PNP Katahdins · #7 09/08/11, 04:43 PM

Also contact the Consumer Protection office in your state, plus Michigan's. I'll bet they have other complaints on file and would add yours. Good luck.

Peg

fordy · #8 09/08/11, 04:48 PM

...................I'd file a suit against them in small claims ct.(if legally possible) for any costs incurred after the cancellation date stated in your letter ! , fordy

HermitJohn · #9 09/08/11, 06:40 PM

I cant comprehend why a company would play these kind of games, what really do they expect to gain other than bit more chump change? We are talking about less than $10 a month! And I think this is small isp so its not even the volume thing like AOL and Earthlink and the like benefited from with their cancellation runaround using call center in India.

But ok, gotta go to town in few days anyway, will send certified letter. If its refused then I contact ARkansas attorney generals office with copy of refusal to accept letter. Course they might accept the letter and then not cancel service so there would be no proof other than that they accepted "A" letter from me. They could just claim the letter didnt request cancellation.

And I will call the credit card people and that probably means going through hassle of waiting for replacement card with new number. I've dealt with a different credit card company over charges with a different isp and they refused to take my complaint seriously, just came up with crazy demands like that I send proof to their office on west cost 2 days BEFORE I even received their letter demanding this or my case would be dropped. Since I dont have a time machine this is rather impossible. And the amount wasnt high enough to get lawyers involved. But at least I can get credit card number changed and that prevents future charges.

foxtrapper · #10 09/08/11, 09:03 PM

Were I you, I wouldn't care a bit about an official form. I'd just have a copy of the letter I sent, and a note as to the date I sent it. The legal requirements are met, service is legally terminated. Easily defended in any court, if push comes to shove.

Sumer · #11 09/08/11, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrapper

Mailing Address: LanZing Internet 3807 Glasgow Dr. Lansing, MI. 48911

Cancel by letter.

I just google maped that address. It shows a picture of someones house!

Bearfootfarm · #12 09/08/11, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Course they might accept the letter and then not cancel service so there would be no proof other than that they accepted "A" letter from me. They could just claim the letter didnt request cancellation.

Make copies and have them notarized,

Harry Chickpea · #13 09/08/11, 11:24 PM

Assume that the company will turn you over to collections.

Draft a letter of cancellation, with big bold copies of correspondence at the top:
CC. State Attorney General
Such and so credit card company fraud department
your attorney
FCC
file

Send one copy of it to them certified return receipt
send another with tracking but no signature required.
Send copies to the others. If you don't already have an attorney, hold that one back.
attach the postal receipts to your copy of the letter.
If they bill you the following month, immediately notify the fraud dept of the credit card and file a police report.

When the collections agency comes after you, put a notice in your credit report disputing the claim. Read up on exactly what a collections agency is allowed to do and catch them in an error. File a claim against the collection agency.

The standard rule in business is that if there seems like there will be a fight, CC your side of the story to the world. Only blithering idiots will dare contest your story if you have let others know what is happening at the time it is happening. I outlined the full course of action for you. In reality, the one letter should do the job.

Betho · #14 09/09/11, 10:12 AM

yeah it's not legal for them to only allow an online form for cancellation. They MUST accept and honor a written letter. Granted, they might pretend to not get it, but I agree with others if you copy your correspondence to others and document the hell out of everything you should be fine. They might fight you on it a bit but even if they do submit you to collections agencies you can fight that. Let your credit card company know what's going on and send them copies of the letters as well just so they can have them in their records.

Companies who behave like this generally back down when you threaten litigation... because they can seriously be slammed for this behavior.

HermitJohn · #15 09/09/11, 11:27 AM

Ok, new info, was looking at email receipt for payment and the originator of the bill is dialupusa.net. This is a seller of virtual isps. Lanzing.net is a virtual isp. This means the billing and all the infrastructure is from dialupusa.net, and that Lanzing.net is just a rebranded storefront for dialupusa.net service. Lanzing.net gets new accounts and acts as a retail customer intermediary and dialupusa.net provides the isp infrastructure. Lanzing then gets a percentage I guess. That explains why a small isp like I assumed lanzing.net was, could offer such a large number of local connection phone numbers.

I emailed dialupusa.net and have yet to hear back from them. But at least my email to them hasnt bounced back yet. Some originating email addresses like that dont accept incoming emails. They dont normally deal with individual retail customers directly, but when the virtual isp owner fails to communicate, then they should be able to do something if they want to. I figured either they can cancel my account or at least build a fire under the owner of the virtual isp storefront, Lanzing.net. If not then I will do the certified letter thing on Monday morning. Lanzing.net is who I offically have a contract with.

And at this point, no a lawyer would be pricey way to deal with a less than $10 monthly charge. Though I suspect if necessary a certified letter on some attorney's letterhead would tend to get their attention. Some people need to be hit over the head with threat of legal action for them to take notice. And hiring an attorney to write a letter might be a good bargain for reluctant buisiness though probably cost at least $100.

SteveD(TX) · #16 09/09/11, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

It doesn't say you have to use their form.

Send them a Certified letter stating you wish to cancel and you're done (legally)

Send copies to your Attorney General and your bank/card company at the same time, and tell the bank/card company you will not authorize payments ofter 30 days

This.

Attorney not necessary IMO. A copy of the cert. letter to the appropriate state regulatory agency over the internet providers might be good too.

foxtrapper · #17 09/09/11, 03:10 PM

Hermitjohn,

You're making quite the mountain out of a molehill. You send a cancellation letter, you stop paying, it's done.

Is there something you're telling? Like giving them direct access to withdraw money from your account?

HermitJohn · #18 09/09/11, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrapper

Hermitjohn,

You're making quite the mountain out of a molehill. You send a cancellation letter, you stop paying, it's done.

Is there something you're telling? Like giving them direct access to withdraw money from your account?

Nope, credit card, I'm not stupid enough to give anybody direct access to my bank account. Credit card companies can be pain in rear to deal with when contesting a charge, but there are lot more legal protections built in for credit cards than for any other way of paying.

And no I'm not making a mountain out of a mole hill. I dealt with another isp that I had two accounts with. Decided I didnt need that second account. I cancelled one account, they stopped charging me for a year on that account. Then they decided somehow I hadnt properly cancelled it so they charged me for years worth of service I didnt use. Then threatened me with more charges if I contested it. I cancelled both accounts at that point and got definite cancellation confirmation numbers in writing. My credit card number was locked so no further charges could be made and I got new card. Then I contested their charges with the credit card company. Well that isp screwed me, then the credit card company screwed me again. Making demands that I resubmit info I'd already submitted twice to a third office of their company cross country someplace. And they demanded it be there two days before I even received the letter demanding this. If I didnt comply they would drop my challenge to the charge. Well since I dont have a time machine, this was obviously impossible. And the amount wasnt enough to get a lawyer involved. By their letters it was obvious nobody had even looked at evidence I submitted. They are now my ex credit card company. I hope they and my ex isp are very happy in bed together.

In olden days if somebody stopped paying for a service, the service stopped and that was it. Now the lawyers have decided since its a contract that if you stop paying and there isnt official cancellation of the contract, that they can just rack up the charges willy nilly for non payment and late payment and anything else, then turn all these trumped up charges over to a collection agency. You nearly have to get a court order to cancel a contract if one party is a horses petute about it and wants to play games.

Or you can sue them, but they know you cant afford to sue them for under a certain amount so they get away with it.

Its a brave new world. Until I can either get this isp to admit I have cancelled my account or proof that they ignored my cancellation request, then I am still on the hook. Its a brave new world out there, common sense has nothing to do with it. Lawyers live in an alternative reality.

I still dont understand why all the hassle to cancel an under $10 a month account, its not like they are an AOL with massive numbers of customers to screw over, but I guess they have some motive???? I mean any company that wont answer its own phone or respond to voicemail request???

And by the way dialupusa.net that does the actual billing for lanzing.net also refuses to reply to my email or calls. I guess I have bad breath or something.....

foxtrapper · #19 09/09/11, 07:26 PM

So you actually *did* give someone access, even though you say you didn't. You authorized auto billing, which was what I was talking about and what you describe having done. Sorry you didn't apparently learn the lesson from your first go round, for this is exactly why you should never do this.

Being billed after cancellation is not new, it's very old. The latest relevant legal case was established many years ago with a newspaper. The person cancelled, but continued to receive the paper, and read it. The newspaper sued because the person continued to enjoy the newspaper. That is how they won.

You've got a case if you send cancellation and never use the service again. Yes, with auto billing you will likely need to also cancel the credit card you've given them permission to hit.

In the future, never give anyone permission to automatically bill your credit card or your bank account. Never.

HermitJohn · #20 09/10/11, 06:28 PM

The problem with your theory is that they nearly ALL autobill. They want either a credit card or your bank account number and they autobill every month either way. Few if any dialup isps ever are willing to send a separate bill every month and treated each bill as a separate transaction for a separate months service. If you found one, its going to be one of those that wants $25 a month for dialup to cover the extra expense. There are some of those left and I guess they must get few people that pay that. But you arent going to find any isp under $10 a month that takes checks on a month to month basis and if they dont get a check they just consider the account closed.

Yea it would be great if you as a customer got to set the terms. But many times if you wait for that you just arent going to buy the service at all. There get to be "usual" conditions for sale in any buisiness. ISP buisiness is no exception. They arent making enough off any particular individual to deviate from the norm. Dont want to accept the TOS as given, then dont sign up. Those are only options. Its different if you are buying some high dollar service or product, then sellers will negotiate terms and price with an individual. They dont negotiate on individual sale of bargain basement services. Its take it with all contractual conditions or leave it. Dont believe me, go into Walmart and go to manager and see if he will negotiate your purchase of one 15cent package of Raman noodles.... However if you want to buy $100k bulk order, I can guarantee that he will sit up and pay attention. Might still not get the deal you want, but he will definitely pay attention.

And dont worry, havent used my Lanzing.net account since middle of August when I was trying to cancel it. Matter of fact right now my phone company landline has developed some kind of bottle neck where the fastest speed one can obtain is like 9k to 12K whereas I used to get 26K. The isp used doesnt make any difference and I've went through 3 or 4 during the summer just to make sure. The phone company says they are only responsible for providing clear voice call service (which I have), not data bandwidth. So right now I am using a 19k tethered data connection to my Boost Mobile pay as you go cell. Its a flat 35cents a day. Still super slow but faster than I can do with landline anymore.

Oh and you were mentioning before that all I needed to do is send a certified letter. Well, previous experience as I have well indicated shows that I need to get them to fully state and confirm that my account is cancelled. Usually this involves a confirmation cancellation number. Dot all the "i" and cross all the "t". These terms of service agreements are horrendous and non negotiable so you want to be protected YOU JUMP THROUGH HOOPS NECESSARY. The TOS states I am not cancelled until I have official confirmation from them and charges will continue to accumulate. Though I had no idea they were going to play stupid games over this and stonewall any attempts to cancel.

So at this point I will have to do the certified letter thing, if its returned as undeliverable, keep that as my proof. If they cause trouble in future, I will sue in small claims court HERE in my state. And no I am not stupid enough to ever use that account again even if it were fast enough connection to actually use. I didnt use that cancelled account from that other isp, cause it was CANCELLED and they werent charging me for a whole year. Its them that decided they could grab some more money and that I wasnt legally going after them for less than $100. See small time theives and con artists and scammers know you cant afford big expensive time consuming battles over relatively small amounts of money. Even to file suit in small claims court would probably ruin a $100 bill not to mention take bunch time. Lawyers will laugh if you go to one of them over anything less than $10k, maybe more like $100k anymore.

anyway, this company, if they want to contest, they have to come here cause I will file small claims suit here. Oh I am sure they have some fine print in the TOS stating different, but local judge isnt going to find it reasonable that customer in this state has to go cross country to file in another state since this company is offering retail service to citizens of this state. You sell a retail service in any particular state, you can be held to account in that state. State law trumps any contractual conditions. And you cant legally squirm or contract your way out of being responsible for the retail service you sell in any state.