Investing In Your Kids

Peacock · #1 01/29/08, 04:35 PM

Heard a story today from my mom's financial advisor about a couple who refused to fund their kids' college educations. Their reason wasn't what you'd think, that they wanted the kids to value their education and they might not if they got it for free. Their reason was that they wanted to keep all their money and invest it in accounts for their own retirement. They had enough to go around, but were afraid to let any of it go.

I thought that was kind of foolish. Paying for your kids' college education IS an investment. They go to college, earn more than they would have without college, and if you do run out of money in your old age, they can take care of you.

At least, that is, if you raised them to be productive and respectful.

The end of the story is this - the kids went to college anyway, but didn't finish. Might they have finished if the money was there? Maybe, maybe not, who knows. But the parents died and the kids got the money anyway. And had a pretty tough life up till that point.

In case you're curious, I'm not talking about my own situation. My own is similar, but my parents did pay for part of my college, just quit after two years. Was I entitled to it? No, I'm not saying I was, I'm not saying they should have done things differently. DH's parents did the same, they said they'd pay for half his college, and he got caught up in working to pay for the other half and never finished because the job seemed good enough at the time.

All I'm saying is that I'd rather live in a tin can trailer in my old age and eat Ramen Noodles again and be broke, and know that I did my best to give my kids a good life. And I think that they'd make sure I didn't live that way, anyhow. I sure would have made sure my mom was comfy, if she couldn't pay her own way.

Just a thought for the day.

Madame · #2 01/29/08, 05:10 PM

My folks paid for my first year. They were pretty well off. I didn't like being beholden and had no direction. I joined the army and when my time was up I paid my own way with the GI bill and part time jobs. I valued college a whole lot more when I paid my own way, and it showed in my grades.
I wasn't able to save $ for my dd, but said I'd help her as much as I could - room & board, and a large portion of tuition and books. She has no interest in college. If she changes her mind, I'll help her...but I'll expect her to pay part of it too.
Different choices for different folks. Both ways are valid.

uyk7 · #3 01/29/08, 08:30 PM

Why should parents be responsible for paying for the kids college education?

Pony · #4 01/29/08, 08:37 PM

My son is not college material. He is very intelligent and creative, but does not feel the need to go to school at this point in his life. He makes good money, BTW, but formal education is not his gig.

Daughter is in the Air Force. She is not sure what she wants to do at this point, and did not want to spend the money on college if she finds out later that it wasn't what she wanted. She did, however, attend school to become a clinical massage therapist. She's good at that, but chose to join the military.

No where is it written that you owe your kids a college education, or that everyone must or should attend college. It's not an entitlement. For many, it's a waste of time and resources.

I went to college and to graduate school. I'll probably be paying off those lousy student loans well past retirement, but oh well. I got the education I wanted, and I never even thought to expect my parents to "invest" in me. They got me to 18, and that's fine. They've earned their money and their retirement, and I would never have thought that they somehow "owe" me.

Pony!

mldrenen · #5 01/29/08, 08:40 PM

my plan is to send my son to community college or a local state college for the first two years, and pick up the tab. the next two can be spent at a college of his choice, since he will be responsible for tuition. i hope that plan will be incentive enough for him to apply himself fully and take advantage of grants and scholarships, thereby minimizing his out-of-pocket expenses, and making for a more genuine learning experience.

of course, he's only 4 right now. who knows what the future holds.

Wildwood Flower · #6 01/29/08, 08:58 PM

I'm of the school that doesn't believe it's up to the parents to pay for college either. My folks constantly encouraged us to go to college and 4 out of 6 of us did. We worked and lived at home, and one brother got scholarships and grants.

I didn't pay a thing for my daughter to go to college either--just didn't have it. She also got jobs and student loans etc.

Now, my grandson? That's a different story...he's only one year old, but I've started a college savings plan for him. I don't plan on paying for the whole thing, but I'd like to give him some help. I'm on a retirement income now, and it's giving me something to live for....to see him graduate from Harvard! LOL

willow_girl · #7 01/29/08, 10:02 PM

My parents told me when I was 15 that they didn't consider me a good "investment" for their money, and not to expect any help going to college.

It wouldn't have been so bad, except the schools based my financial aid eligibility on my parents' income. By the time I was 17, I wasn't even living at home, but the schools still demanded to know the particulars, and my parents refused to disclose any information that might help me. In the end, I was unable to obtain any scholarships or grants, and gave up the idea.

I did attend part-time a few years later, after marrying a man who worked for a community college. Had a fantastic time! Didn't finish my degree, though -- too busy working! Would love to go back someday ... I doubt it ever will be financially feasible, though.

JennNY · #8 01/29/08, 10:13 PM

I think that if college wasn't handed to me on a silver platter, I would have appreciated it more. I NOW appreciate my parents sending me to college, but it was more forced, than suggested.

We will help the kids as we are able. But my oldest is 16 now and we have 6 kids, down to 19mos. Money is tight and I am not sure how much we can help. I am hoping that she gets some scholarships, grants or financial aid. We have 1 1/2 years to figure it out.

JennNY

Peacock · #9 01/29/08, 10:16 PM

Some of you may have misunderstood what I said above. I specifically said that I didn't believe I was entitled to college tuition, and I'm not saying that any kid is entitled, or that parents should necessarily be expected to pay, whether they have the money or not. Nor am I saying that college is the only way to go.

What I mean is that it's sort of backwards thinking, IMO, that these people - who did have the money and could have afforded the kids' tuition, at least for a 4 year degree at a state college, refused *for the sole reason that* they wanted to invest the money for their future in IRA's, etc. I can understand their POV, that they wanted to be totally in control of their future, whereas paying kids' tuition and hoping that if your finances go awry the kids will help you out may be a bit of a risk. At least they might give you a bed in the hay loft or something.

What I'm alluding to, I suppose - in a roundabout way - is the lack of responsibility and duty to family in today's world. I was raised, and so was DH, that family members help each other out no matter what. Parents help their kids when they're struggling - say, give them a few thousand for a house down payment, pay a bill now and then, send them home from a visit with a bag full of groceries, etc. And when parents need help later on, their children help - keeping up the house, driving them around, that sort of thing.

Used to be that was expected and something you could pretty much count on, though of course there were plenty of bad apples and always will be. But seems like nowadays (good grief, I sound OLD) it's not unusual for either side - kids or parents - to say "I'm not obligated to help."

I'd give my last penny to help out my kids. I would have given my last penny if my mom needed it, too. If I'd had siblings I'd probably feel the same about them, assuming they could be trusted to appreciate it.

In previous generations, children *were* your investment account for retirement. You had as many children as you could handle, so they'd help on your farm or in your business, and make sure you were cared for when you could no longer work. But now we don't need that, right? We have IRA's and Social Security.

bowdonkey · #10 01/30/08, 06:18 AM

This has been a great post. I guess you have to just know your kids and do what you think is right. School debt as you all know is a huge burden for young people entering the work force. I know so many that are working their tails off trying to pay it off and meet day to day living expenses. I won't have my kid throwing away their best working years paying interest. I'll be helping mine just a little while they attend college and when they enter the workforce and demonstrate they are responsible adults, I'll pay off their loans and the lenders can take a hike. I'm a firm believer in a person knowing pain [ bondage to a lender, miserable boss, long hours with little compensation, whatever fill in the blank] so they know when they have it good.

teresab · #11 01/30/08, 08:06 AM

My daughter is an ER RN. She is 23. She went to college without any assistance from us (me and her stepfather) as we were just unable to help her. She said she is so glad that it was that way. She saw person after person drop out because they partied their nights away and ended up flunking out.

She couldn't party because she knew how much she had on the line. She worked hard ..got scholarships and grants and came out of school with $12,000. debt. She is now working hard at paying that off and will be debt free next January. I am very proud of her.

My DH and I have 2 sons together- ages 6 and 5. We have decided (if we have the money) we will pay the minimum we have to pay as deemed by the college and we will let them assume the rest. If they work hard and graduate then there would be a lump sum upon graduation to pay towards loans from us. If we don't have the money then it will be their responsibility.

It's never too early to learn responsibility and the value of hard work...be it at school or your job.

hintonlady · #12 01/30/08, 08:06 AM

As parents it is our job to raise children to the point of independance in the real adult world. Children do not ask to be born, so once brought here they have basic needs.

Everyone learns at their own pace. Some young adults are fortunate and skilled enough to survive, some are not.

Either way, it is our responsibility to give them the tools they need to make it.
If you choose to NOT pay for education and it is intended to teach a lesson of making it through adversity, that is valid. If you choose NOT to pay for education because "I don't have to" that is very selfish indeed.

There are very few young adults who have the skills to do more than earn basic starting wages. At that income, work hours etc. paying for and concentrating on college is a major hardship.

My Father promised to pay for my education and did not. I grew up depending on that promise and was never shown how to come up with alternative plans. When that fell through I did my best to manage. It did not work out. I spent many years struggling to just get myself moving along. That is a lot of time wasted.

I would never want to saddle my son with such life difficulties. Although I know a free ride xcannot come from me I will still give him every last drop of my blood if that's what it takes. I have to trust I raised him well and that he will do the right thing in return.

Because, that is my job, otheriwse I should have just stuck with pets who have no need of much. Being a parent is about sacrifice. The world has enough painful lessons, we do not need to create extra.

Dandish · #13 01/30/08, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edayna

I'd give my last penny to help out my kids.

Well, your kids are still young...let's see if you still feel that way when they're 25...lol. Really, I hope you do.

Things can change, though. I'd never let either one of my kids go hungry or homeless, but let me tell you they are wearing thin on my pocketbook otherwise. The oldest graduated HS in 2003. Never really had much problem with this kid, worked hard in school, anti-partying, etc. He really wanted to go to a trade school in Chicago; it was VERY expensive, but we took out loans and paid a lot to get him there, including leasing an apt and furnishing/stocking it. The deal was he'd work part time to pay his half of the rent, get good grades at school and we'd help as much as we could. Long story short - it was a complete waste. Two months after he was there he turned into a different kid, literally. It's a long story, and I really don't want to hear about how we must have something wrong somewhere (what we did was give too much when they were young, and that's about it), so I won't go into detail, but know that I am STILL paying on those loans and he didn't finish school. It cost us thousands of $. I don't think I would EVER do that for a kid again. I'd make them show me they were truly serious while they were going, and then MAYBE I'd help a little. I don't think it's "owed" either. As far as you kids being your insurance policy, well, the jury's still out on that one, but I'm trying to make sure we'll be okay either way...

DAVID In Wisconsin · #14 01/30/08, 08:31 AM

I'd give my last penny to help out my kids.

My 81 year old neighbor says that too. And at 81 she still has to work to support two lazy, good for nothing sons.

TNnative · #15 01/30/08, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

My parents told me when I was 15 that they didn't consider me a good "investment" for their money

That is so sad, I am so sorry to hear this.

cindyc · #16 01/30/08, 08:36 AM

I HOPE I am teaching my kids to value education in the future by requiring them to value it NOW. We have high academic standards, and we expect a work ethic that does not have mom sitting around nagging the kids to "do their school work". They are fully engaged in the process. They know NOW that college is up to them because we may not be able to afford to send them all, and that they have to work hard to earn the scholarships that they are going to need to go. They will have EARNED their way to college BEFORE they are old enough to go. At that point, if at all possible, I don't mind helping them pay for whatever is left over that the scholarships did not cover. My hope is that they will value that scholarship and not do anything to lose it because of the sweat they put into getting it. If they ever stop giving effort and keeping the grades where they need to be, my part of the money side of things will be over. The oldest is 13. He has known that plan for at least five years.

Cindyc.

renloy · #17 01/30/08, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uyk7

Why should parents be responsible for paying for the kids college education?

Because they brought a child into this world. If they aren't ready to take on that responsibility there are many birth control options out there.

Wendy · #18 01/30/08, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by uyk7
Why should parents be responsible for paying for the kids college education?

Because they brought a child into this world. If they aren't ready to take on that responsibility there are many birth control options out there.

Your responsibility as a parent is raising your children to adulthood. The age of that in this country according to most everyone is 18. After 18 I will help them when & if I can & if I think they deserve it. I see way too many 20-30 year olds still living with their parents & basically mooching because they are never taught to get out & do for themselves. You do not "help" them if you continually pay for everything & do everything & bail them out of everything. They need to learn life lessons & sometimes they need to learn them the hard way. Kids need to learn that you have to work to get somewhere. Mom & dad paying for their ride isn't teaching them that.

savinggrace · #19 01/30/08, 08:57 AM

I don't think there is anything wrong with a requirement that children meet reasonable a reasonable GPA and participate in extra curriculars you approve of while in school on the parent's dime...

Husband was a royal screw-off the first time he went to college; did ok the first semester and basically failed after that. It was well within reason that my in-laws cut him off at the time; (yeah-a trust fund baby COMPLETELY cut off) a little time in the real world cured him; he returned to school when he was ready and he's now a very, very successful person!

I am much more focused on private high school than college costs; #1 they are facing us quickly and #2 I figure that is the best investment I can make for them-college; provided they are accepted we will make it work no matter what I need to do! (work the midnight shift at a gas station/student loans ect.)

But we are not going to give-just because we can! Living on Ramen noodles in a sparse apartment working a dead end job for a while builds character....

AJ Williams · #20 01/30/08, 09:08 AM

I may not be able to pay for my 2 stepsons and 3 sons (all my sons by the way) educations in college. They will have a home to live in and be fed at while they are going if they choose to go. I am endeavoring to provide all the boys with skills that will provide for them if they can't or don't want to go to school.
I have very little college but a lot of technical training. The boys will become what they want because the only limitations they have are the ones they place on themselves. They are able bodied and intelligent. If something happens to change that I will help them get the skills to overcome.

My job as a parent is to provide for them and teach them to be adults. Whether it is through moral/emotional/financial help I will do what I can. Both of my stepsons fathers are sadly lacking as fathers. The oldest is moving back from his dads because his dad is one in name only. He doesn't seem to get it that he needs to see to the boys emotional needs as well as physical needs. That is why it is up to us to do all we can to raise children to be all the can be within their limitations.

Did I get off thread?