Please tell me I am not completely crazy.

[donsgal]

Part of the plan of the homestead was to establish a non-profit corporation that would eventualy offer educational classes to interested parties. Since that time, I have run across something that is kind of unusual and I have changed my thinking a little bit.

Since you all are my friends, I am going to run the idea past you and see what you think about it.

I have always been very interested in Native American culture. In the past I spent a lot of time in Colorado and had a lot of contact with Dine (Navajo) and Ute tribal members and really, really enjoyed it. I have always wanted to learn more about not only the culture, but hunting, trapping and other Native skills.

Recently, purely by accident I stumbled upon a website for the "Free Cherokees" which, presumably is an organization which is NOT recognized by the Feds as being a real tribe - but rather it is open to people of "any" Native American ancestry (even "one drop of Native American blood" will do) for membership. Presumably, they take your word for it as the website states that many Native peoples are denied membership to a tribe because they cannot prove that they are of the blood, so to speak.

Ok, let's face it. This organization is a pretend, "wanna be" organization filled with pale face white folks who really, really, REALLY want to be Native American. As goofy as that sounds, it makes sense to me, and as nearly as I can tell they are very sincere about it. They have pow wows, gatherings, etc., where they dress up in tribal regalia and do the whole..."Native American" thing.

I think it's kind of sweet actually.

Well.... (you know where I am going with this don't you)?

I am thinking. "Why not do something like that at the homestead?" I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to participate. And bringing in (Real) Native American speakers, trackers, etc,. to demonstrate skills would really be a great thing.

I mean as long as we do not try to fraudulantly convince someone we were a REAL Indian tribe, wouldn't it be a lot like Re-enactors do? Dressing up and pretending to be someone you aren't just to get into the spirit of the thing?

Ok? Is this a totally, insane idea or not? Do you think these kinds of organizations insult truly Native American people? (If you are American Indian, do they offend you?) What do you think?

donsgal

[culpeper]

I'm not an American of any description, native or otherwise, and I think it's great that people want to preserve the native cultures. The danger is, I suspect, that a lot of the activities aren't 'genuine', but often come from the imaginations of people who have rather vague ideas about what the Indians used to do - not information handed down from generation to generation, if you know what I mean.

Also, I think in a hodge-podge, certain traditions that one tribe had might get tangled up with one from a different tribe - thus will get passed down not quite true. Whether this is better than nothing getting passed down I can't quite decide.

I think if you want to throw an Indian 'party' at your place, it would be polite to approach 'real' natives, and make sure that what they agree to present is 'real' to each tribe. My knowledge of American natives is limited to TV documentaries and the like, but I'm fairly sure there were traditionally inter-tribal conflicts that may or may not continue today. However, perhaps traditional animosities can be put aside for an enjoyable, entertaining and educational occasion such as the one you propose! Let's hope your particular property is not built over some sacred site or other! I would also be guided by them as to the date of the event - you never know, they might come up with some particular celebration or commemoration that is significant to them.

I do think the planning and cost of this exercise will be enormous, however! See if you can get your local TV channel/radio station interested - as sponsors.

Edited to add:

I'd LOVE to be there! As an onlooker and learner.

[uncle Will in In.]

NO Donsgal, You are not completely crazy.

[Songbird]

Just a little crazy. LOL

[willow_girl]

Haven't we stolen enough from the Indians already?

[suzfromWi]

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Haven't we stolen enough from the Indians already?

Yes, Let them have what really belongs to them. If you are not Native American don't pretend you are. Its okay to learn about them. Its okay to have an interest in their culture., but to pretend to be them is another story.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Personally, I think you have enough to do on the homestead without the whole non-profit *anything* idea.

[MTplainsman]

Originally Posted by suzfromWi

Yes, Let them have what really belongs to them. If you are not Native American don't pretend you are. Its okay to learn about them. Its okay to have an interest in their culture., but to pretend to be them is another story.

I agree!


I live just North of a 2.1 million acre reservation. I know the indians well. I also know that you'll have to search high and low to find one that has the knowoledge of thier anscestors these days too. I don't want to sound biased by any means, it's just that the white folks seem to take more interest in indian culture, than the indians themselves. A real native who can hunt, track, and knows his/her culture inside and out, are sadly as rare as hens teeth these days. I wish more would retain the interests in thier heritage, but the modern world has effected them in too negative of a way. I have good indian friends, and I know many others quite well, and to be honest they think the white man is "touched" in the head, to try and be like they where so many years ago. They think screws are loose, when we want to live the way so many of them do not even think about doing these days. You may find a few pure indians scattered around the country that is well read and researched on his culture, and who is willing to share it, but sadly I'll tell you that you may have to search far and wide. Don't forget, though seemingly romantic of an idea, the indians of the modern world are just living like we do. The main emphesis on tribal culture, is all but gone.

www.fortpecktribes.org

P.S. Don't give me flack. I say "indians" cause thats what the majority still call themselves up here. Not all of them are politically correct yet, fortunatley, and still much prefer to be called "indians"... In Poplar, MT thier basketball team are still the Poplar Indians. They do not see a reason to change it for politic's sake.

[turtlehead]

Maybe if you presented it as something other than native american skills and traditions. Something like "hunter gatherer" skills. Then you could also incorporate practices and traditions from tribes that live in the rain forests of Peru, for example. And you might avoid accidentally offending native americans.

[bumpus]

.
Most everything about Indians has become commercial for profit, and they are not going back to the old ways.

They can only tell you about what someone else told them, because they do not live the Indian life style anymore.

Most pow wows today have nothing to do with the Real Indian way of life.
They are just for show and computation, for recreation, and praise from people.

There attention drawing shows for profit which comes
from people who buy the products.

Even the real pow wows are dying out.

They take on the American way of life and drop the Native simple part.


bumpus
.

[Dente deLion]

Originally Posted by turtlehead

Maybe if you presented it as something other than native american skills and traditions. Something like "hunter gatherer" skills. Then you could also incorporate practices and traditions from tribes that live in the rain forests of Peru, for example. And you might avoid accidentally offending native americans.

This sounds like a better way to do it - especially because you would be presenting *your own* hunter-gatherer skills, while giving credit to your sources (e.g., "I learned this from studying the traditions of the Ute tribe").

On the Free Cherokees bit, I suspect (admittedly without looking into it at all - just from your description) that it has something to do with getting grants, college scholarships, etc. If you saw "Free Cherokee" on an aid application would you bother looking it up to check its legitimacy?

[Shadow]

I last played cowboys and indians about 55 years ago. Pretending you are indian, polish, african, what ever seems just a touch starnge. Me and the wife are both of American Indian Hertage, But we are just full Ameircans, Thats what we are and that is the only thing we claim. WE ARE AMERICANS

[Cornhusker]

Originally Posted by Shadow

I last played cowboys and indians about 55 years ago. Pretending you are indian, polish, african, what ever seems just a touch starnge. Me and the wife are both of American Indian Hertage, But we are just full Ameircans, Thats what we are and that is the only thing we claim. WE ARE AMERICANS

Me too, and I don't have a drop of native blood, but I'm an American and proud of it.

[Peacock]

If you do, I hope you plan to donate a percentage of the proceeds to a Native American charity.

I think it sounds kind of cool -- as I'm one of those wannabees myself. I think my Cherokee percentage is something like 1/64. Does that make me one? Hardly, but I still think it's an important part of our nation's cultural heritage.

We went to Cherokee, NC a few years ago on vacation and I really enjoyed the museum. We didn't get to spend as much time there as I'd have liked, but I'd like to go back. A place like that can't help but take on "touristy" aspects, as even the Cherokee themselves adopt businesses designed to rake in the cash vs. truly educate visitors.

I guess what you have to do is find some real Indians and ask them what they think.

But on the other hand, it seems like most Indians these days are more about casinos than culture.

[AR Cattails]

My great-grandmother, on my mother's side of the family, was 100% Cherokee and my great-grandfather was 100% Irish. What a cute couple they must have been.

[turtlehead]

Originally Posted by Shadow

Pretending you are indian, polish, african, what ever seems just a touch starnge.

I disagree. I think it's interesting - could be a very interesting hobby, like genealogy, only researching old life skills instead of family ancestry.

I see lots of folks that learn to quilt or sew or spin and they're not pretending to be anyone other than themselves. Just studying old skills in the hopes that they don't become lost to the ages.

I also see lots of non-Irish celebrating St. Patrick's day. That's mostly an excuse to party, but I think celebrating various cultures is pretty wonderful.

[Hillbillybob]

It's nice to be able to enjoy my Native heritage now but my grandfather would whip you if you tried to tell him he was Indian.

I Look at it this way!

First I'm American

Second I'm native American

3rd I'm a Marine.

I'm Also a Hillbilly living in the Great Ozarks Mountains and I take pride in all.

Look around here and you will find a lot of Black French (Native Americans).
They called themselves Black French so they could own land here in Missouri before all the laws changed again.

You must remember that the good Christians took the children away from their parents and put them in schools, taught them Christian values and would beat the children for speaking their own language or practicing their own religion.

Yes I know what was done to my grandfather and what they tried to do to my dad when he was young.

Hillbillybob

[Peacock]

Well, look at it this way. I'm a good, healthy mixture, ethnic-wise. My genetics hail from England, France, Germany, probably some other places too, and of course that little drop from the Cherokee. I have no "cultural heritage" except for being an American. Would it be wrong for me to want to learn more about my ancestors in, say, the Appalachians -- living in coal country, in a two-room shack -- because I'm only distantly related to the people who really lived that way and because my life bears no similarity at all? Or, OTOH, would it be OK to learn how they managed to survive with so little and celebrate their strength, and of course go back home to a hot shower and soft bed?

Seems that if we restrict cultural learning - and even teaching - to those who have "genuine" ties to it, we're going to lose a big opportunity for knowledge and understanding.

[silentcrow]

Have you ever looked into flint knapping, and the associated "knap-in"? A knap-in (or stone tool craft show) is a gathering of knappers and others (At'lat users, "native" crafters, carvers, misc. vendors, etc.) and can be hosted by a single person (if you have the space or place for it) or an organization. They can be small, or large. I usually go to 2 decent sized ones...Flint Ridge Ohio and Letchworth State Park in New York.

Many of the things you mention are done at these gatherings. In fact, you are in a state with some of the best knappers I know, so you may be able to find out more about it locally. I know a great knapper, Jim Redfearn, lives in your state.

I've seen people teach knapping, fire starting, various crafts, how to use an At'latl, etc. This may be something to look into, especially if you are afraid of stepping on any Native American toes. I'm sure they hold a few in your state each year. If you get a chance, go to one and see what goes on. Some are better than others, but all are interesting!
http://www.eskimo.com/~knapper/

[TedH71]

MTplainsman,

Yes, there are still some people that live the lives of their ancestors. Most of them live in Canada or in that province that was recently given back to the Native Americans for themselves to run called Nunavut.