Curious about something

[DocM]

A common response throughout HST forums: "My neighbors have a lot of stuff and they're up to their eyeballs in debt", or something to that effect, somehow the poster is privvy to the economics of their neighbor.

I find this curious. I've never once discussed my finances with my neighbors, no matter how good they are. Now, I do admit, more than once, one of them has mentioned that money is tight, but these are not people with lots of stuff; these are hardworking people, mostly young families, who are just starting out - and it's done in good humor. My neighbors with stuff? I have no idea whether or not they've paid cash or credit, and I don't care. It's none of my business. In fact, in my considerable experience, the more stuff someone has, the less likely they are to discuss their finances casually.

I'm just wondering how come so many of you seem to know the status of your neighbor's bank accounts? Is it a cultural thing that just isn't likely in this part of the country?

[Melissa]

Most of the time if I do know it is because they mention their payments or lament their lack of money due to debts. I would never ASK outright. We do live in a poorer part of the country (Appalachia) so being without money is pretty common.

I have also been a tax-preparer for about 14 years so I actually know the financial status of many people quite well. That information is confidential of course, but I can make some general inferences about our local financial state based on my experience.

[Dandish]

That's a good question. I'd guess it's mostly an assumption based on the reports of more people carrying huge debt - I heard the other day the national average credit card debt is something like $8000 - and more people losing their homes, etc. Personally I find it very distasteful to inquire about such things or discuss it in depth with anyone who isn't directly involved in my finances. However, take my husband's family - if they come over and see we have purchased virtually anything, the first thing out of their mouths is "How much did that run ya..." or something to that effect. We've finally just learned to answered along the lines of "It didn't come out of your pocket, so..." I hate when they do that.

[trappmountain]

Other than close family and friends I can only guess. My BIL is getting better now that he is single. He and his wife spent spent spent on the best of everything for themselves and their kids. She cheated left and he is stuck with a good deal of the debt. If he finds himself with a good deal of money, instead of paying down his debt he will buy something new. I guess he got used to that lifestyle and is having trouble getting out of it. His wife made a lot more money than him.

I do live in an area that is known for its overspending and debt. Whether that is just rumor or fact I am unsure.

[LynninTX]

the one person we know in this situation talks about and refers to it...dh works for her part time & she has bounced checks to us.... sigh

lives in a million $+ home according to her... car payments, 4 wheeler payments, most of her suppliers in her business have her on pay on delivery...

other than that I know nothing about individuals...

[LisaInN.Idaho]

I think a lot of it is envy and a form of reverse snobbery. I see a lot of it on here. If you have (or are perceived to have) money or any wealth, you must not be a real homesteader...whatever that may be.

[Ardie/WI]

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

I think a lot of it is envy and a form of reverse snobbery. I see a lot of it on here. If you have (or are perceived to have) money or any wealth, you must not be a real homesteader...whatever that may be.

Yes, I see a lot of that here too and I tend to consider the source.

[trappmountain]

I should have added to my post that we have a lot of "things" and yes we can afford them and we have money put away and invested for retirement.

[Scrounger]

Hey - I got a nieghbor who keeps files on family members and neighbors. He gleans (snoops....) all the info he can from internet sites, loves to gossip and fills in the blanks with what ever he pleases. From there, he spreads it around so everyone will know his version of the truth.

[Jenn]

I say it to myself about folks whose apparent wealth (ie lots of stuff) usually in bigger towns makes me envious. Don't feel it though about my neighbors- just that they're idjits to heat and cool 5-6000 sq ft for a family of four- but I'm an idjit for doing the same for 4000 sq ft.

My one neighbor who sold us this house was annoying in always saying "Is there a check for me?" when I was paying off those involved in house sale in his presence and still some now re me able to get stuff 'cause I'm rich. Guess he just talks money a lot. DD7 fishes with him and he kidded her "Next time I take you fishing you've gotta pay me $5!"

She told me "Next time he talks like that I'll tell him 'You don't need any money, you have all our money from selling us your house!' " DH likewise told me to try catching him first with a tease about being the moneybags (or say "I got no money- you took it all") to beat him to the punch since it apparently annoys me so much more.

But anyway I prefer to believe all the folks with a lot more stuff than me don't actually have enough more money to pay cash for it all and have as much for retirement still as we do, but I sure don't see folks like that (except farmers and we know THEY don't have any cash) around here.

[AngieM2]

DocM -
Their crystal balls fill them in on the neighbor's status. Sometime the crystal balls are dirty or smudged and distort the truth.

Angie

[baldylocks]

I often wonder how folks afford some of the stuff they buy and I often assume it is on credit. Even if I don't speak it here or elsewhere, I think it and I know my thoughts are out of jealousy...even though I don't like to admit it. When I reflect a little further though, I know I am content with how I am living so I can let the jealousy go pretty easily.

On the other hand, I dont mind talking with folks about money. I see nothing wrong with asking what someone paid for something in most cases. House/land purchase price can be found online or at the courthouse. Asking just saves me some effort. I also watch real estate prices online for my area so I know about what folks must have paid anyhow. There aren't many instances when a property is listed at $100K and gets sold for $30k. Prices for cars and other consumer goods are listed online and people don't often get deals that are freakishly better than the average of what you find online. I realize sometimes you can find an incredible deal, but telling others in those cases would be a boost my pride, rather than a secretive thing I would think. Now don't get me wrong, if someone is trying to imply something nasty by trying to figure what I have or how I spend my money, that's another thing altogether.

[PineRidge]

Hmmm, I neveer really thought about my neighbors and debt/spending. They both have more "stuff" than we have, but I don't worry about how they got it.

Now I could tell you about my Families finances, and then I would be right to talk about buying what you can't afford, 'cause I know it for a fact

[Siryet]

One thing that I have changed in my life is no longer being concerned about my neighbors lives, outside of their actions affecting my security, family, health or property.
If they need real help I will help them in a new york min. but other than that: "Live and Let Live"

[dixiegal62]

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

I think a lot of it is envy and a form of reverse snobbery. I see a lot of it on here. If you have (or are perceived to have) money or any wealth, you must not be a real homesteader...whatever that may be.

I dont know about here on the board since Im still a newcomer, but I find in real life if people think you have money, they assume you have no problems and your life is easy as pie. They also assume that if you have money they can and will ask to borrow it or your things all the time.

[CJ]

For some reason, people tend to think that if someone has a lot of nice things, (toys) they must be in debt up to their eyeballs.

I know for a fact a lot of people assume that about my husband and I. (Co-workers especially). Yet we don't carry a single debt in the world, and we bank usually close to 75% of his annual salary, and live off the rest.

We're working back towards having a homestead life again, but it probably won't be until we retire... not if we want to remain debt free. We're willing to patiently save up.

[Shepherd]

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

I think a lot of it is envy and a form of reverse snobbery. I see a lot of it on here. If you have (or are perceived to have) money or any wealth, you must not be a real homesteader...whatever that may be.

I think so too. I know at times I feel I can't post about something because it might be misunderstood or I'd be perceived as "not truly a homesteader" because you can "only be dirt poor to be one" - which I don't agree with. We've paid off our place, live fairly comfortably and have money set aside to help in our retirement years. But that's our business. And I know how we did it. We did it by doing without most of our lives, scrimping and saving every dime we could, doing without a lot of things that others refused to give up, working at least 2 jobs most of our lives, etc.

I have no idea about the finances of our neighbors, or most people. The only exception to that is when a friend or family member confides in us and wants our advice on what they could do to turn things around. I guess I'm a firm believer that if someone has enough confidence in us to ask our advice, it's a trusted confidence, and I'd keep their trust by not discussing it with anyone else.

[Wildwood Flower]

I try not to discuss our finances with anyone, other than in generalities.

My DH, on the other hand, brags to his relatives "I never had a D#$#@rned thing until I married this girl." Then he proceeds to tell all. I absolutely hate that!

I do know about our kids and their finances. One does great, the other is terrible. We live in a pretty conservative area of the country, I don't think people around here are into "keeping up with the Joneses" but I may be wrong.

[Dave]

I've known of my neighbors being in debt because where I live has been a ghost-town for the last 6 months. Every single adjoining home is now empty and owned by the bank. And most of them have been empty for many months. It's become very surreal. And quiet.

Over several years I watched all the neighbors treat their home equity like an ATM machine giving out free money. I watched their driveways fill up with motorhomes, boats, ATVs, Hummers, expensive cars, etc. At least until the repo-man showed up and took them all, and then the bank came and foreclosed.

All this transprired in just 4-5 years.

I'm in the epicenter of foreclosures now here in southern California. From 2001 to 2005, real estate prices went up 3-4 times over. A good example is the condo complex in the neighborhood. They went from 120k to over 500k in 3 years for a 2 bedroom condo. When they were selling for 500k, the realtors didn't even bother putting up a sign because they'd be sold the next day in a bidding war.

Now many have been sitting for sale for 300k for nearly a year and nobody is buying. Most are empty. Others are being rented at market rates, 1300-1400/month, but most of the owners are paying 1900 and up to carry them. Every month they're cash-burning at least $700 to carry depreciating assets.

The classified are filled with ads for boats, rv, atv, vehicles, etc. There's even a glut of nearly new appliances, lots of granite countertops and whatever else people could rip out of their foreclosed homes before they were forced to leave.

It's a very good time to find a deal if you have the money to buy. Fire-sale prices on all of that stuff.

The people left around in the neighborhood that I see in the local stores, most of them have a very scared and troubled look in their eyes right now. They're no longer sipping Starbucks and laughing into their cellphones. They're probably not even answering their phones anymore at this point because it's probably the collection agencies calling.

That's how I know.

[sgl42]

Given the overall debt levels in american society, and the overall very low savings rate in the US, a large number of people *are* up to their eyeballs in debt. You can't be certain of any one particular person, but the odds are in your favor of your guess being right.

Also, most people ask and most people willingly tell their job/profession. Usually you can get a rough idea of their income from that. My immediate neighbors are a prison guard, a fedex driver, and a lady who runs a daycare in her house. Most people could probably guess a rough range of what these people make. Yes, there are sometimes surprises -- I once knew a carpet installer that told me (unprompted by me) that he made $100k/year. I would not have guessed that on my own.

In addition, the prices on houses and cars, the two largest expenses most people have, are generally pretty well known.

So, if you see someone who's a school teacher, that always buys a new car every 2 years, goes out to dinner all the time, and just bought a new boat, it's a fairly safe inference that they took on debt to do it. No, not guaranteed. They might have a large inheritance, might have done exceptionally well investing, might have gotten screaming deals/discounts on everything they bought.

Probably some people are point this out due to jealousy, but probably many of the people on this board do so as they're just shaking their head on the values that people are exhibiting. And the risk these people are exposing their families too if they get layed off.

--sgl