The job market has certainly changed

JJ Grandits · #21 11/19/14, 08:57 AM

Just blame the Democrats. They trashed our economy and destroyed the middle class.

Eagle-eye · #22 11/19/14, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Grandits

Just blame the Democrats. They trashed our economy and destroyed the middle class.

I don't blame the democrats exclusively. The republicans trashed the economy too. Corporate interests rule both parties equally. Corporate interests, and the interests of everyday working people are simply at odds over many things. They always seem to get their way because they have the money, and influence.

If you own the government, and the government has the power to pick the winners and the losers then how can you lose?

JJ Grandits · #23 11/19/14, 09:34 AM

Republicans did not give us NAFTA.
Republicans did not give China most favored trade status.
Republicans did not give China computer technology.
Republicans did not create rules and regulations that caused the housing bubble and started the "great recession".
Republicans did not give us the highest corporate tax rate in the world that drove good paying jobs overseas.
Republicans did not open our borders to immigrants who take jobs, drain our social sevices and fill our prisons.
Republicans did not give us Obamacare which has kicked the legs out of any recovery that the private sector has accomplished.

So I think blaming the Democrats is pretty spot on.

willow_girl · #24 11/19/14, 09:35 AM

It's supply and demand. All the young folks want to work with computers nowadays; it's all they know. A "job" is something you do sitting at a desk and staring at a screen.

Gotta find a way to make it work for you. I discovered that in my locale, there is a shortage of housecleaners. No one wants to get their perfectly-manicured, keyboard-ready hands dirty! I can charge $20 a hour for housecleaning, far more than I'd command in an office setting these days. So be it ... I don't miss "office politics" anyway!

JJ Grandits · #25 11/19/14, 09:41 AM

You ought to see how much I charge for trimming an ornamental tree for an hour.

MO_cows · #26 11/19/14, 10:06 AM

A side note about employers who make you apply online - I helped a friend put in two online applications for two different hospitals. Turns out it is a 3rd party you are giving all that personal information to, not the employer you are actually applying to! The application link is a redirect, those hospitals both used some kind of 3rd party service. She started getting junk emails about jobs within hours of completing the first application. So beware of the online applications.

notwyse · #27 11/19/14, 10:12 AM

Was president Reagan a Democrat? He passed IRCA. Granted amnesty. Hummm. Also apparently a spy. But...not getting sucked and n....

simi-steading · #28 11/19/14, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

Country concerts occur on porches and in churches. And I have a dozen ethnic cookbooks I'd be happy to sell to you.

I'm very sincere about cooking though. There is nothing made in DC that you can't make, better probably, yourself. I think it's the convenience that's missing.

It's more fun when they serve you all 7 courses and pair those up with great wines and you don't have to lift a finger... There were times we'd get off work at 5, hit the restaurant and wouldn't finish dinner until 9pm or later...

Ya just can't do that kinda stuff at home very easily.... and you gotta have very good paying jobs to be able to afford it..

So, I guess that means I also miss the pay in DC, but man do I not miss the work and traffic..

Sadly my wife moved here to WV to travel further, get paid less, and actually do more work than she did in DC... I hope so badly we can get started on a business next year so we can get her outta the corp world as fast as possible.

I get what the OP is talking about... Sure is a shame things aren't equal everywhere when it comes to jobs and pay...

**Kung** · #29 11/19/14, 10:18 AM

I know what you mean. I can't count the # of job apps I've seen that require someone to have experience with various software suites, teambuilding/working together, etc....and they want to pay like $10/$12 an hour.

What's even funnier - some of the people I know have flat out TOLD me they are geared towards college students....who often have NO experience with these suites, teambuilding/working together, etc.

What it is, is a smokescreen to find that ONE student or person who's young, yet somehow has managed to garner actual marketable experience. They don't often care about the rest.

I will also say that many times it's not necessarily that they're looking for someone with ALL those qualifications. What they're actually saying is "We need someone who's truly multifaceted, can learn fast, etc." I went into my last job interview (which I got - working as a GS-9 for the government on Fort Leonard Wood) listing a TON of experience. They asked me if I actually knew or had worked with all of the things I listed. I flat out told them "Worked with them? Yes. Current? Not necessarily, but I assure you that given a month, I'll be current and experienced."

When people hire nowadays, they usually simply want to ensure that they're not hiring one-trick ponies. I work with people who are GS-13's and above and for some reason think pulling the bag out of the small trash can, tying it and handing it to the janitor to make their job easier is 'not their job' because 'it's outside of their job description.' *facepalm*

Nevada · #30 11/19/14, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simi-steading

When I was in STL, an IT job like I was working paid around 35-40K... When I moved to DC, I started out at 65K and left making over 80K.... and that was just end user support..

For engineer positions, in STL, average was around 80-90K.. in DC, it was $125K and up...

There was a lot more companies in DC to work for than in STL, but there were more people trying to get those jobs in DC too... bu they still paid much better.

It's all in where you live, and what the local economy is like. If most people have money, they will pay more. If most people have less money, they will pay less..

Then again, DC is a world of it's own... The rules there aren't liek the rules for jobs anywhere else in the country..

I never looked at IT work as a way to make a large salary. I happened into Linux server administration as part of my dialup ISP business, when I had to provide my own RADIUS server, and host email & web space for subscribers.

I look at IT work as a way to having the freedom of working at home, and I also like the culture. I always enjoy interacting with other server admins doing similar work.

But if I was younger I would probably be looking to being an IT manager someplace. The pay is good and there is often a lot of autonomy as an IT manager, since the work you do is usually very different from what everyone else is doing.

**Kung** · #31 11/19/14, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

I never looked at IT work as a way to make a large salary. I happened into Linux server administration as part of my dialup ISP business, when I had to provide my own RADIUS server, and host email & web space for subscribers.

I look at IT work as a way to having the freedom of working at home, and I also like the culture. I always enjoy interacting with other server admins doing similar work.

But if I was younger I would probably be looking to being an IT manager someplace. The pay is good and there is often a lot of autonomy as an IT manager, since the work you do is usually very different from what everyone else is doing.

100% true. Where I work we pretty much have autonomy. NOT because no one knows what we do, but because (and this is why I like working where I do) people come to see what we do, thinking that we're just a 'computer carry in center' and leave realizing that some of what we've done (3 guys and 1 girl) have literally saved the Army, and other Army posts, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just the other day we fixed an issue with Office 2013 that we were told 'couldn't be fixed.' It took us about 2 days. LOL They realize quickly that we're not 'just' help desk personnel; we have that drive that compels us to not just work around but fix issues at the core.

This said, I got into IT because I loved doing what I do, *NOT* because I think it would have made me a ton of money.

Nevada · #32 11/19/14, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kung

When people hire nowadays, they usually simply want to ensure that they're not hiring one-trick ponies. I work with people who are GS-13's and above and for some reason think pulling the bag out of the small trash can, tying it and handing it to the janitor to make their job easier is 'not their job' because 'it's outside of their job description.' *facepalm*

IT is a different animal to a lot of companies. They are typically in the business of doing something completely different from IT, like metal fabrication or auto parts wholesaler, yet require good working workstations and a central server to do what they need. Then often don't even know how to approach the problem. Sometimes the people they interview tell them what they need. But since nobody in the facility is a computer wiz or knows much about file servers the new IT manager often makes his own decisions.

In larger companies, like the oil companies I worked for, they're looking for something else. They usually know what the need because they've hired a consultant to determine their needs. They look for someone with management experience, but no necessarily a lot of hands-on computer experience. The new IT manager hires one or two computer techs to take care of the server, the workstations, and even to provide tech support to employees. Therefore, large corporation IT managers can be good at budgeting, supervision and management, but not so technically good (there are always exceptions to that, of course).

But when an IT manager takes on a one man operation he had better have his head screwed on straight.

simi-steading · #33 11/19/14, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

A "job" is something you do sitting at a desk and staring at a screen.

I've many times told my wife it sure is amazing how we've moved from hunting and farming, to industry, to sitting at a desk and pushing paper to eek out survival in the world..

I blows my mind that we've figured out how to basically do nothing, then turn the effort into money, and in turn into goods...

If it wasn't for taxes, insurance, and other similar "needed" expenses, we could pretty much live on very little....

nostawmama · #34 11/19/14, 11:10 AM

My husband has been in the construction field for 15 years and we have been looking for a job for months now. We just cannot wrap our heads around how employers think they can pay 10/hr for 1099 position, and they don't provide tools, equipment, tool trailer, and insurance! We would LOOSE money taking that kind of job!

ErinP · #35 11/19/14, 11:24 AM

It always concerns me when people try to blame (or credit) the president for something as massive as the economy.
This is foolish and makes people into victims of their circumstances because they're just waiting til this guy gets out and quits ruining their lives, or the next guy saves them, or whatever…

Something I've discovered over the years is that who is or isn't running the country really has very little to do with my personal household economy.

Nevada · #36 11/19/14, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

It always concerns me when people try to blame (or credit) the president for something as massive as the economy.
This is foolish and makes people into victims of their circumstances because they're just waiting til this guy gets out and quits ruining their lives, or the next guy saves them, or whatever…

Something I've discovered over the years is that who is or isn't running the country really has very little to do with my personal household economy.

I disagree, because economic bubbles are almost always the result of weak regulation. As we've seen, economic disasters like the great depression and the current recession can result.

But the problem with blaming Obama for a slow recovery is that recovery is dependent on residential real estate prices recovering. Homes in my neighborhood are still about 35% of what they were in 2006. I don't know what the president or congress can do to make that recovery go any faster.

MO_cows · #37 11/19/14, 12:31 PM

IT used to be a cash cow because their knowledge base was somewhat rare and therefore valuable. But teenage kids today know as much about networks and technology as some trained "IT techs" from the past. Just like web designers had more demand than supply for awhile, that was the "fast-track ticket" for awhile. It is just supply and demand. There are more people who need and want jobs than there are quality jobs available. So the employers can offer less and still get the work done. The lower rung of workers have become downright disposable, there's a long line of new ones waiting to come in when you have used one up.

It's just the way of the world, businesses are not charities. It does their business more good to spend those millions to name an arena or put their logo on a do-gooder cause, than to be good to their workers. And people keep on buying what they are selling, so hey, it works.

Nevada · #38 11/19/14, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows

IT used to be a cash cow because their knowledge base was somewhat rare and therefore valuable. But teenage kids today know as much about networks and technology as some trained "IT techs" from the past. Just like web designers had more demand than supply for awhile, that was the "fast-track ticket" for awhile. It is just supply and demand. There are more people who need and want jobs than there are quality jobs available. So the employers can offer less and still get the work done. The lower rung of workers have become downright disposable, there's a long line of new ones waiting to come in when you have used one up.

It's just the way of the world, businesses are not charities. It does their business more good to spend those millions to name an arena or put their logo on a do-gooder cause, than to be good to their workers. And people keep on buying what they are selling, so hey, it works.

That's true of taking care of workstations, and even network connectivity to some extent, but server configuration & administration and network troubleshooting is an art of its own. If you need a stable server and network then you need someone who really understands that stuff on a fundamental level.

**Kung** · #39 11/19/14, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

That's true of taking care of workstations, and even network connectivity to some extent, but server configuration & administration and network troubleshooting is an art of its own. If you need a stable server and network then you need someone who really understands that stuff on a fundamental level.

This. I know a lot of IT guys who I consider to be smarter than I am. With that being said, while you can 'learn' troubleshooting, network administration, and the like, it takes a while longer to learn those things when you're dealing with a non-standard network/infrastructure.

For instance, the government network where I work. There are a LOT of programs that interact with other programs, both COTS, GOTS and otherwise; and you simply cannot easily import 'basic' troubleshooting and administration to that atmosphere and replace someone who's learned their craft over years of real world experience.

BadFordRanger · #40 11/19/14, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Grandits

Republicans did not give us NAFTA.
Republicans did not give China most favored trade status.
Republicans did not give China computer technology.
Republicans did not create rules and regulations that caused the housing bubble and started the "great recession".
Republicans did not give us the highest corporate tax rate in the world that drove good paying jobs overseas.
Republicans did not open our borders to immigrants who take jobs, drain our social sevices and fill our prisons.
Republicans did not give us Obamacare which has kicked the legs out of any recovery that the private sector has accomplished.

So I think blaming the Democrats is pretty spot on.

"Nuff Said?????????"
But still yet, the republicans are far, and I mean far from being without blame also.
We all have our own little war to fight with our enslavers and we'll all fight that war the best we see fit, or as more than half of the people that live in the United States will do, set on their fat butts and wait for the ones that has a few guts takes the war back to them in our own ways and our own time, and make it a legal as they are doing it to us while doing so.
It is just so much harder to do legally when you are from the broke side of town nowadays!
But if God is willing and something as small as my boiler works correctly for me, (which I am sure it will

) so that I can stop that dang heating bill, I will be well on my way of beginning to fight back.

Godspeed

Ranger