Second grade student says teacher took away her Bible during rea

Since you seem to know all the facts about this, how about you enlighten us on just exactly what those facts are? If you don't know ALL that facts, why spew your hatred for Christianity?
Did you teach your children your own values? If you did, why was it ok for you to instill YOUR values in them, but not ok for other parents to do likewise?

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"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - President Obama June 14, 2008

I never singled out Christianity and I don't hate Christianity so cool your jets there son. Quit getting personal about something that isn't personal and don't ask me questions about my family because my family is none of your business.

I'm talking about religious extremism and I think we all know that extremism can be found in any religion. I think we also all know that religious extremism is more than alive and well living in America. The above story is a prime example of the kind of religious extremism that America has a notorious reputation for and this example just happens to be Christian extremism.

If you don't recognize it then maybe you should ask yourself why.

I recognize hatred when I see it. So, how about them facts? You can cast judgement from your chair about how others raise their kids, but get offended when asked about how you raised your own! Yeah, I didn't think YOU would like it if someone else suggested your raising your kids wrong. Next!!

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"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - President Obama June 14, 2008

I second that conclusion but have to wonder about the parents agenda... Who calls the news before calling the teacher or principle first? All I can figure is the whole "parent pushing religious agenda through their child" theory fits.

Couple that with the "investigation" done by the reporting agency. They interview other parents and quote their feelings on the matter but do not bother to get a statement from the teacher, principal, or superintendent.

The article is clearly written to further a certain view of the events.

I am not a certified teacher but I have been substituting in our elementary school nearly 25 years - been through grands and now great grands.

I imagine it's pretty much the same everywhere: "free-choice" reading time means free choice books selected for that level of expertise. I have never seen a second grader with enough advanced reading skills to read the bible. Unless it was a collection of bible stories written for second-grade level I would have done the same thing. Same as I would if that child chose to "read" the Wall Street Journal during free time.
Would everybody be this upset if that child was attempting to read "Crime & Punishment" and given a more age-appropriate choice?

If this is the reason the book was taken away then I disagree. If a teacher feels a book is above a students grade level they should inform the parents, and make a suggestion as to a better suited book. It should be the parents decision what level to challenge their children. The teacher is there to assist in the students learning. If the teacher wishes to control which books are selected they should publish a list and have the student select from that list.

They do, in a manner of speaking.

Seriously??
Do you have any idea how often this happens?

Obviously there are some kids who ARE reading well above grade level, but more often, their eyes are often bigger than their stomachs. Second grade is an age at which most kids are really getting the hang of this reading thing and it's not at all unusual for librarians to suggest they go back to the shelves after they've grabbed Harry Potter, book 6, because they're fairly sure they've got a handle on this. lol
Same thing if Little Susie has made it into the classroom with big brother's copy of Lord of the Flies. "Kiddo, I think we're going to try something a little less challenging, OK?" and send her over to pick something a bit more surmountable.

But why would she send a note home?
It's just not a big deal.
(Of course, this goes back to the assumption that it was simply a reading-level issue)

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

Yes I was being serious. I think we may be crossing up words because there is no substance to the original cited article. Here is the case I'm describing:

As part of the curriculum the teacher decides to have the students choose a book from the school library. From this book they are going to have to identify various things such as the time-period the book was written, whether first-person view point, who is the protagonist, what conflicts do they face, etc. Now let's say they go to the library and my daughter picks a biography on Harriet Tubman (my daughter love biographies for some reason). The teacher feels this book can address some potentially more mature subject matters and may be hard for my daughter to pick up on the mature themes the book will present.

Now at this point I'm sure the teacher will attempt to explain this to my daughter and maybe she will change her mind and select another book. However if my daughter wishes to study this book as her coursework I would not want the teacher to say "nope sorry" and remove it as a possibility. It is at that point I would expect the teacher to present the information to me and we can work out how best to proceed. But if both myself and my daughter think she can handle it the teacher shouldn't have a problem with it.

Now, as is typical I'm sure I see the world through my own rose colored glasses. I have had very wonderful experiences with my childs teachers in school. I frequently communicate with them, mainly just status checks. There have been several times the teacher will email saying my daughter struggled a little with some topic, say fractions. It allows me to supplement what they are providing in the classroom. From my viewpoint the teachers are there to provide services to help my child learn, but in the end it is MY responsibility that she is educated and ready to proceed in life. This could be where people have different past experiences which result in different decisions.

And I think you've made this far more difficult than it probably was.

Little Susie shows up with her challenging book. The teacher brings her Caddie Woodlawn, Sarah Plain and Tall and Hatchet and says, "Let's try one of these instead. Or maybe over here on the shelf?"
Susie says OK and puts her book back in her bag. No big deal at school.
I literally can not guess how many times I've seen exactly this happen.


She then goes home with Sarah Plain and Tall and Mom asks why she's reading this instead of her Bible.
Teacher took it away...
And off we go.

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

Weirdly enough the same thing happens when people read other holy books too like for example the Qur'an.

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"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me." C S Lewis

OK, MAYBE the second grader misunderstood and the teacher is wonderful. How about this one? This time it is a Fifth grader, and they played the teacher's voice mail message to the father, “I noticed that he has a book – a religious book – in the classroom,” she said on the recording. “He’s not permitted to read those books in my classroom.”

http://townhall.com/columnists/todds...sroom-n1833661

There seems to be no dispute that this was a free reading time. So who wants to defend this teacher? Who wants to defend this principal who did not clearly come out and state that free reading time does not exclude "a religious book?"

Again the question becomes: Have they had a chance to handle this within the district first?
Have you been following the entire thread?

I also floated the theory that she might have asked the student to put it away because of content, not knowing either school policy or the law. A polite, simple call to the principal to have the teacher reminded of both would have been the end of it.

The same applies to this.


Lisa is right. Calling a lawyer and a political group FIRST, before following channels at school, is showboating pure and simple.
In the case of the older student, reminding the school of US Dept. of Ed's policy should have been the end of it. If the principal still needed a better understanding, you go to the superintendant. S/he doesn't get it either?, you take your lawyer with you to the next board meeting.

End of story. True, not nearly as exciting as getting on national news, but that's the way most of us handle this.

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

I did read this thread a few days ago. I don't recall, are you a teacher? A member of the teacher's union? Is that why you want to blame the parents first and are afraid to expose the stupid and illegal act of the teacher?

Often times reporters get things wrong, but from the article,...

"After he received the teacher’s message, Rubeo contacted the school. He said the principal said she would have to turn the matter over to their legal department. Rubeo then wrote a letter to the school ordering them to cease and desist the harassment of his son."

So it sounds like the father tried to go thru the principal first. It also sounds like the principal punted. I have a rule I've had to use a few times as a business owner, once you say you are calling your lawyer, you and I don't talk directly any further because it is more likely to be used against me rather than resolve the issue.

I know some folks love to blame the parents first, but it sounds like the father tried a reasonable local approach and the principal went to legal, so the father did as well. And I still would not fault the father if he went to the press as a first step, because in this case, where the teacher is clearly taking an anti-religious stance, it is an egregious violation of 1A rights. In today's day and age, you should not have to remind any gov't official that the Constitution, the US DoEd, and the Florida DoEd all guarantee that gov't employed bullies can not violate 1A rights. Once the teacher made clear this wasn't an issue of free reading time but rather an out right ban on the Bible in the classroom, there was no gray area. The best way to prevent
further abuses is to bring public condemnation against the teacher and principal, both of whom deserve to be fired.

This has nothing to do with blaming the parents.

There is a chain of command that is spelled out in every school handbook, large and small. Parents usually have to sign something at the end of the handbook indicating they have read it and understand the rules, procedures and protocols spelled out therin.

If people are not doing so, that indicates they did not understand what they read, or they didn't read it.
Either way, the onus is on the one who is not following the agreed upon procedure.

In this case, that does indeed seem to be the parents.
Like I said, this is how most of us resolve issues within the school system. Though I'll agree, it's not nearly as sexy as calling the news.

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

Funny how the first thing a School does is go to / for legal counsel, but if a parent does that they are doing it for the notoriety/ spot light..

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Pennsylvania Constitution, Article 1 Section 21 "The Right of the Citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned"
www.pafoa.org
http://www.45thpacok.com

Ohhhhh....the Sheeple theory of appropriate acquiescence to gov't dictate. No parent has an obligation to follow the self serving mandates of petty gov't bureaucrats. What makes you believe a parent has that obligation?

Are you a teacher?

Nope, they don't. They can take their kids out of school and homeschool them.

Homeschooling is an option I wholly endorse, however, it is not the only option. One can simply choose to ignore the school policy in this case. There is no contract between the parent and administration that allows the school to dictate adherence to complaint procedure. The administration has limited ability to set rules and regs governing the conduct of the parent, I can't think of any except in the area of conduct on school grounds, and certainly the school has no right or ability to control a parents free speech rights to complain off of school grounds.