I'm bloody well tired

Bret · #21 03/26/14, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnn2501

Seems to me like that people give much too credence to the opinions of others. If you don't like how a poster says something just ignore what they say. For Particularly annoying posters there is an Ignore feature.

You control how you take a post.

Having said that I think at times we have all been guilty of firing off a reply before really thinking about it.

And the mods do a fine job IMHO.

If I thought before posting, I would never be able to post. Arcticow, I enjoy your posts.

where I want to · #22 03/26/14, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emdeengee

My experience is that it is a waste of time to complain about the rude but not "illegal" posts. Vulgarity seems to be acceptable here.

And yes the sneering is expressed by both sides. How does that make it better or right or excusable?

No but the real point is to look in the mirror before looking out the window.
I personally started out being super careful to be super polite but found that leads to being ignored at best and flamed at worse.
Now I'm fighting the personal battle of avoiding name calling while still defending my points.

Some things I try to steer clear of is religious based arguments. If someone says that something is true because of the religion, that can only be debated from within the religion.
I am almost at the point of considering that some liberal or conservative people are really members of a church of those names because they seem to argue the same litany of values without variation. Scary.

Some things I find really rude is cross border ragging on another country. So are you going to stop because I find it rude and mean? Another thing that offends me is broad criticism of the other sex- statements that all women or all men do some horrible. Are you going to stop that from going on?
Dismissing personal concerns as unimportant or even untrue without asking or explaning is offensive. Ignoring a post because it's inconvenient to your own opinion or diverting a thread to your own agenda is rude. Patronizing personal remarks like "lighten up" crab the heck out of me. Not just when addressed to me but if I see them addressed to someone else too.
Of course if your goal is to circumvent difficult to answer posts, the thread will end up going around and around, usually devolved into a series of "oh yeah"s. A war of raspberries. And that is ugly. But unless you are prepared to answer an issue raised by an opponent in an argument, you can not expect that it will just go away because you are annoyed.

And I like arguing- it's the only way to test my own thought and opinions. I don't think that the people who complain about arguing, as if politics was ever anything else, are really as offended by the process as they are about being contradicted and having to think further.

Ambereyes · #23 03/26/14, 12:25 PM

What am I missing? I am on a couple of other forums and moderator on one, this forum seems to be one of the best moderated and calmest I have seen. Sure there are disagreements, seen them in quite a few parts of this forum. If a particular thread annoys me I just move on.

Harry Chickpea · #24 03/26/14, 12:26 PM

I guess I'm not seeing the gangs of bullies. There is a strong conservative slant, sometimes to the point of being stereotypical, but I would expect that since the hardworking country type of folks strongly tend to conservative values.

When I see a post here that evokes an emotional response in me, I'll usually step back and try to figure out what it is that is causing my response. If it is a person using language that seems personal or inflammatory then I may use a different strategy than I might for someone who is confused or parroting of a media mavin without thinking it through.

If I hold a point of view strongly, such as thinking that kids really need to be exposed to at least some farm life and life and death on a farm before age ten, I'll defend it strongly. However, I know there will be others who disagree, and the only thing I can do then is to use words that will make them think. I can't change anyone's opinion, only they can, and even small shifts in opinion take time and reflection.

If I could think of a single person on the forum who intentionally set out to do people on the forum harm, I might see more teeth in the original rant.

emdeengee · #25 03/26/14, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

No but the real point is to look in the mirror before looking out the window.
I personally started out being super careful to be super polite but found that leads to being ignored at best and flamed at worse.
Now I'm fighting the personal battle of avoiding name calling while still defending my points.

Some things I try to steer clear of is religious based arguments. If someone says that something is true because of the religion, that can only be debated from within the religion.
I am almost at the point of considering that some liberal or conservative people are really members of a church of those names because they seem to argue the same litany of values without variation. Scary.

Some things I find really rude is cross border ragging on another country. So are you going to stop because I find it rude and mean? Another thing that offends me is broad criticism of the other sex- statements that all women or all men do some horrible. Are you going to stop that from going on?
Dismissing personal concerns as unimportant or even untrue without asking or explaning is offensive. Ignoring a post because it's inconvenient to your own opinion or diverting a thread to your own agenda is rude. Patronizing personal remarks like "lighten up" crab the heck out of me.

Of course if you goal is to circumvent difficult to answer posts, the thread will end up going around and around, usually devolved into a series of "oh yeah"s. A war of raspberries. And that is ugly. But unless you are prepared to answer an issue raised by an opponent in an argument, you can not expect that it will just go away because you are annoyed.

And I like arguing- it's the only way to test my own thought and opinions. I don't think that the people who complain about arguing, as if politics was ever anything else, are really as offended by the process as they are about being contradicted and having to think further.

Very interesting reading. Do YOU own a mirror lol!

I have no objection to discussion or argument on any subject including religion, politics and other countries. All opinions are interesting. I just find the vulgarity used to be unacceptable. And completely unnecessary. Libertards, Feminazis, Repuglicants, Democraps and other similar words seems to be completely acceptable here.

arcticow · #26 03/26/14, 12:34 PM

I enjoy reading all of you who posted here. I know how to use the ignore button, and have from time to time. Angie, you will get a PM when I have time later. I want to be very specific when I report something or someone. Anyone can cross a line once in a great while, including me. Some folks I had under Ignore for a while I now enjoy reading. And for Nevada's friends, I like to read what he says, even tho it makes my brain hurt sometimes. He ain't the problem. I can disagree with you all day long, and still be OK if it seems that your argument is reasoned and presented with courtesy. Blessings on the mods, it's like being a school bus driver... Angie is a saint or her head would explode some days...

AngieM2 · #27 03/26/14, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Angie is a saint or her head would explode some days...

Obviously you've not seen though the computer screen some days

arcticow · #28 03/26/14, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngieM2

Obviously you've not seen though the computer screen some days

You do hide it well, though, ma'am...

Oggie · #29 03/26/14, 12:45 PM

I think that it’s important to realize that many of the more vehement posting personalities on this forum are actually drama majors from Northwestern University working on their course studies in performance art (Well, except for the one who is actually the work of a graduate studies academic planning committee from Creighton (but that’s really too complicated to go into)).

Posting activity tends to pick up around the end of the semester and midterms and tends to drop off during the summer recess.

Some of my favorite old-time posters are no longer in the forum because they graduated and have to spend most of their time trying to earn a living at various dinner theaters or as mimes on the sidewalks or in parks in major cities.

AngieM2 · #30 03/26/14, 12:45 PM

I'm going to let you all in on a secret.

Some people get infractions and banned when they don't think mods are doing something fast enough or to their liking. They may not see the PM's in the background asking someone to edit a post, rather than get infracted; or someone with a style that 10% of the time causes infractions but 90% of the time is a smart and excellent member.

I have some of the banned members as ones that I wish would have just not posted that last absolutely insulting post, specific and cannot be over looked, and they are gone.

Some of the smartest, most knowledgeable have little patience with the perceived stupid to them questions and it all comes apart. It is very sad.

There are some banned people I really miss seeing posting and some of them I did the final deletion infracting that caused it to go over the ban level. I had to do it, even if I liked them in most cases. And I have to not infract some I don't care so much for unless I can put another member's name in the action and I'd still do it.

It's not as fun or nice as some would think. I would ask, even if you don't agree with a mod or me, give us time to work things out. Or at least don't do something dumb and rule breaking and get infraction points yourself.

where I want to · #31 03/26/14, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emdeengee

Very interesting reading. Do YOU own a mirror lol!

I have no objection to discussion or argument on any subject including religion, politics and other countries. All opinions are interesting. I just find the vulgarity used to be unacceptable. And completely unnecessary. Libertards, Feminazis, Repuglicants, Democraps and other similar words seems to be completely acceptable here.

Yes, I find that offensive too. And yes, I look a lot in the mirror. If you don't find the idea that I hold back a lot scary, you should. But there is a hard balance to find between the desire to not allow weak thinking to rule an argument and not to insult someone incapable of better.
Sometimes name calling is just because someone is frustrated but inarticulate. Being inarticulate does not mean wrong.

arcticow · #32 03/26/14, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

Yes, I find that offensive too. And yes, I look a lot in the mirror. If you don't find the idea that I hold back a lot scary, you should. But there is a hard balance to find between the desire to not allow weak thinking to rule an argument and not to insult someone incapable of better.
Sometimes name calling is just because someone is frustrated but inarticulate. Being inarticulate does not mean wrong.

Which comes down to the playground rule... If you can't use your words don't hit. If all you can do is call names, take a short breather and THINK...

emdeengee · #33 03/26/14, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

Yes, I find that offensive too. And yes, I look a lot in the mirror. If you don't find the idea that I hold back a lot scary, you should. But there is a hard balance to find between the desire to not allow weak thinking to rule an argument and not to insult someone incapable of better.
Sometimes name calling is just because someone is frustrated but inarticulate. Being inarticulate does not mean wrong.

I would not hold back. It is rather dishonest if you do. And anyone's opinions don't scare me at all. If you have something to say then say it - just in a courteous manner. Why would anyone find it necessary to INSULT someone because they think differently? An adult can and will control themselves. Using insults does not make you inarticulate. It makes you rude. Your meaning is articulate. Insults can be very expressive and eloquent but in the end just juvenile.

AngieM2 · #34 03/26/14, 01:10 PM

And an insult can be couched in elegant words.

Twobottom · #35 03/26/14, 01:11 PM

I have seen this whole scenario play out on many sites. Some people come on strong, maybe a little rude, and others complain about bullying and threaten to leave the site. It usually goes down one of two ways...One, the moderators/owners 'crackdown' and decide to put a stop to this "bullying". Pretty soon nobody can have a spirited debate without being penalized. Debates stop and the entire purpose of the site/section/thread is moot. Some people stop visiting the site.

Or the managers of the site simply accept that people sometimes disagree in ways that offend others, this is the nature of debate on a website. They recommend using the "ignore" button on any posters that others may feel offended by. Site remains somewhat inflammatory. Some people stop visiting the site.

I have never seen a middle ground reached. And ALL moderators being human beings, always favor certain posters who they have a longer relationship with or who may reflect their own views. Because of this, total even handedness is impossible and the more they try to moderate the posters, the worse it gets.

When you enter a site where people are free to voice their opinions, you agree to be exposed to humanity...the good, the bad, and the ugly. You have the power, via the ignore function, to eliminate ANY poster that offends you. Therefore, logically, you have absolutely no right complain about the same group of people being offensive, IMO.

emdeengee · #36 03/26/14, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngieM2

And an insult can be couched in elegant words.

Or nasty and vulgar ones. Both are still insults. We have discussed this many times on this forum but nothing changes. Some of the most rabid insulters are just left to run free. And of course this stultifies any real discussion.

bowdonkey · #37 03/26/14, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcticow

Which comes down to the playground rule... If you can't use your words don't hit. If all you can do is call names, take a short breather and THINK...

Wise words if the playground is a hockey arena!

arcticow · #38 03/26/14, 01:22 PM

As was stated earlier, offending me is very difficult. Badgering someone else in a public forum makes me much less reticent to call someone out, to hold them accountable for the way they deal with others. I won't try to police thought, even when one's idea of "spirited debate" amounts to shouting down those with whom they disagree. I WILL take someone else's back when I see them browbeaten! Sorry, that's my idea of spirited fairness.

arcticow · #39 03/26/14, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowdonkey

Wise words if the playground is a hockey arena!

Never, EVER mistake meekness and fairness for weakness...

Twobottom · #40 03/26/14, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcticow

As was stated earlier, offending me is very difficult. Badgering someone else in a public forum makes me much less reticent to call someone out, to hold them accountable for the way they deal with others. I won't try to police thought, even when one's idea of "spirited debate" amounts to shouting down those with whom they disagree. I WILL take someone else's back when I see them browbeaten! Sorry, that's my idea of spirited fairness.

Unless I'm mistaken every member has the ability to use the ignore function. Why not let each member decide how and when to deal with other posters? Let's let people decide for themselves when they are offended.

As far as 'shouting down those with whom they disagree' you'll have to explain to me how that is possible on an online forum. But I will also sometimes jump in when the odds are against someone, thats just my instinct sometimes