Abusing the system

And don't forget the low income housing built with Walmart in mind in case they come to town.

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So in the morning, please don't say ya love me.
Cause you know I'll only kick you out the door.

OK- about reporting it and why that usually goes nowhere.

You are sitting at your desk , working away, trying to do more things than you ever get time to do. In the mail is an anonymous letter saying so-and-so is working and getting disability benefits. You can see he never has reported working . No wages show on his record. At least the anonymous letter said where he is working, so you send a letter to him and one to the business asking for unformation. Now you have Mr. So by the benefits and he comes into the office and say that he is not working, he's only visiting his friend who owns the business. You get his statement. The business owner, who has been paying this guy under the table, simply never responds and you have no practical ways of making him. This is your first opportunity to let the whole thing drop as pointless.
But let's say you are convinced that Mr. So is not being truthful. What can you do? You can go out to the business and ask the employer yourself. But you need permission for this expensive trip because you are required to travel in a government insured car and be covered for yourself if there is an accident. So a week or two later, you find yourself in the business office with the cussing owner telling you he hasn't time for this government bureaucracy. And get out.
Now you're ticked off and want to get the goods. So what can you do? None of the other employees are going to get in trouble by talking to you. You can't hang around all day to watch even if that would tell you something. You might fish around for a supplier of the business to get the lowdown- maybe, probably not. You realize there is nothing practicable you can do. You flag his records to check if wages ever show up and hope his employer gets caught by IRS. And let it go.
Truth is catching fraud is mostly a matter of luck unless it is massive enough to interest the investigating agent. Or the person is so inept he catches himself.
And this is why the greatest of care needs to be exercised in creating sources of money where fraud is easy. Some giveaway may help some but it frequently goes to those with sharp eyes for easy money who count on the inability and reluctance of those giving it out to monitor it. Remember that when the next story hits the papers with how an agency heartlessly deprived some old widow of her money.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

Yeah , there are systems to report those things if the jail officials want to participate (they are paid per report,) and they have enough correct ID information to match a record. If they have guy who makes up a social security number or simply gets it wrong, it makes an unmatchable record and the guy might as well never exist.
It's easy to say something ought to be done but it's a whole lot harder than you think. You can spend big bucks trying to prove something to the level required and get nowhere.
The only real success is relies on criminal greed and incompetency.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

It's most likely a neighbor or relative. And he will find out who reported him- that's his right to know.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

Sometimes in life there are consequences for doing the RIGHT thing. I would tell the person to get their act together and stop the fraud or that I would report then if they didn't. Give them a chance but follow through.

The most common way that people find out about fraud is because the fraudsters cannot help but brag about it either directly or to someone else who of course then talks about it.

I think it is the cost of doing business. If you figure a convenience store probably loses 10% of merchandise every year do to shoplifting. Should that store close down? No it is figured into the cost.
I would rather lose 2-3% of benefits to fraud than live in a country that turns hungry people away.

If you make $50,000.00 a year $6,000.00 of your annual taxes go to corporations tax breaks. Only $36.00 of your taxes go to food stamps. Heck I would gladly give poor people $36 a year to feed themselves.

Anyone begrudge that small amount of money for the poor?

But setting up programs that accept that benefits should be easy to obtain and therefore unverified creates a populace who is getting more an more used to fraud. It becomes an acceptable mindset and grows out of the ability to be paid for.

A temporary handout is acceptable to be unverified as an emergency but continuous ones with loose standards become a feeding frenzy teaching disrespect for what is provided.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

Either way I will gladly give $36 a year to feed the poor. This year and every year.

And I make no where near $50,00 a year.

Tell me how that has worked out for you. I would not report a neighbor who has the mindset of willingness to break the law unless it was actually was putting people in danger directly. The chances that he would apply that lack of respect to the law to you and yours would be too great and he is always there.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

But the question is not paying for the poor- it is paying for those taking away from the poor. And if you add in all the corrolary benefits, salaries, systems, etc, it is quite a bit more than just the value of the actual cash benefits.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

What we're not mentioning here so far is the fact it's a government agency. Private sector won't put up with it. My wife is a Workers Compensation Adjuster, and when she gets a whiff of fraud, usually from a doctor or employer, she'll put a PI on the claimant's tail. There are laws against fraud, and insurance companies will make sure scofflaws are charged.

She used to bring home some of the tapes the PIs would make. Hilarious! I remember one guy who couldn't remember from one day to the next which leg to limp on.

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http://www.ozarktubs.com
"The Big Load Washtub"

Unfortunately public agencies, unlike private ones, are bound by the laws giving rights to the person being investigated. And by politicians adverse to negative news stories, lawyers who are paid by the government to sue the government and media looking for sympathetic stories to publish where the government is barred by law from disclosing the facts while the other party can say anything without being held responsible.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

It worked out well when I reported fraud at work and when I reported my neighbour for abusing his kids. The criminal at work was fired and prosecuted. I testified along with others in the company. The man who abused his kids was investigated and went to jail. His wife was a very happy woman. She was too afraid to report him.

There are risks and consequences of doing the right thing but if you always expect someone else to take the risk then you have no right to complain about criminal activity since you opt out of the process that would fix the problem.

The abusive neighbor is one where I would agree. My experience at work was a bit different- the person was disciplined but stayed in the job and made me pay for it for ten years. If you asked me about the work thing, I would not do it again. If the people who should prosecute do not choose an action that keeps you safe, which in a bureaucracy is notoriously lacking, your price may be too high.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

You've hit real close to the reason.

It's all about our debt based money system. Our real money was replaced by paper notes that are actually receipts for debt instead of money.

Here is the simple explanation for how our money system works:

The only way a dollar comes into being is somebody somewhere borrowed it into existence. Money is borrowed, the bank simply makes a book keeping entry to that effect, (creates it out of thin air) and now the dollar is real, and get's spent on something real.

Unfortunately, that dollar has to be paid back WITH INTEREST. That means more dollars have to be created ( and borrowed into existence ) for that to happen. Thus, the money supply must continuously expand, along with the built in inflation that results from that expansion, or the system collapses in a deflationary spiral.

Once the debt gets big enough, the consumer can no longer continue to borrow. They have limits, or face bankruptcy. HERE is where the federal govt steps in....and can borrow unlimited amounts. Of course, they can only borrow to fund programs, so what we see is the effect of that necessary money creation....those programs.

THUS there is absolutely no incentive to reign in that spending.....if anything, the opposite is true. That is WHY you see more and more programs in search of 'clients'....and more $249 hammers bought by the Pentagon.....and so on.......they HAVE to keep the merry-go-round going up until it flies off the axle.

THAT is the main reason there is no one trying to cut off benefits or spending....it HAS to continue, or the banking system dies.

Then, they will blame it on all kinds of other things, the public won't understand the real reason for what happened because 99.9% of them either don't care, or focus on the symptoms like we're doing in this thread, not the actual cause.....and they will start the game over for another 100 years of fleecing.

The bankers....separating you from your wealth one phony buck at a time.

Yes but many on these benefits are working. They are putting into the system.

Why is it that only the poor are considered abusers of the system?
Have you ever purchased anything off the internet?
Did you report that purchase on you taxes or pay the sales tax on that purchase?
If not you abused the same system!

Do you have your own business. Did you claim your vehicle was used 100% of the time when really it is only 50%.
If so then you abused the same system!

Are you self-employed, maybe income from snow plowing on the side. Did you claim all of that income?
If not then you abused the same system!

I have no problem paying for the poor. If they abuse that, that is on them not me. I am not here to judge others who cheat .
Someone once said"He who has no sin shall be the first to throw stones!"

I used to work with a man who bragged about how he'd filed fraudulent tax returns for many years, mainly because he was a few years older than his wife, would probably die before her, and leave her with a mountain of debt. I was so shocked, I didn't say anything, and didn't realize at the time that I could have made a phone call to the IRS and maybe, just maybe, gotten a chunk of reward money.

The gist of this post seems to be everyone does it so it's ok for those getting benefts dishonestly to do it. And this is idea that is so bad- that a person has no responsibility for their own actions. If you take that idea and apply it to burglery, you would seem to say that because some people cheat on their taxes, it is fine for a thief to come into a stranger's home and steal their computer. A million people stealing does not make it right.
The other assumption is that, although the law that creates such benefits defines "poor", everyone has the right to decide the law is wrong and that they are "poor" enough to deserve those benefits even though they don't meet the law's requirements. At least you seem to keep calling them poor despite the issue being they do not meet requirements but use fraud to get them anyway.
Although the examples you give of public theft are all people trying to avoid the government from taking what they worked to have and that is not the same as taking what you have not worked to have, few of us are perfect in our actions. But there is still a point that most people should not go if there is any chance of having a society not riddled with corruption to the point of misery.

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For we used to ask when we were little, thinking that the old men knew all things which are on earth: yet forsooth they did not know; but we do not contradict them, for neither do we know.

This gives me an idea!

__________________
So in the morning, please don't say ya love me.
Cause you know I'll only kick you out the door.

Taxes are merely organized theft. An individual goes to jail if they stick a gun to your head and lightens your wallet. But a group of individuals bands together as a 'government', does the same thing, and that is OK ?

If every night a fox came into my chicken house and stole a chicken, that is "the system". Am I wrong for limiting my losses ? I think not.


I have no problem with you paying for them. I have no problem with ANYBODY voluntarily supporting any cause.

I DO have a problem when a group forces me to be "charitable" under duress, to take care of folks that are often quite able to care for themselves.