Why Health Insurance Cannot Work

where I want to · #61 12/04/13, 02:54 PM

Insurance works for most when it is limited. You can't afford insurance that pays for a broken window but you can afford insurance that covers breaking everyone simutaneously.
Insurance can have a profit when few people have every window broken while the homeowner can afford to pay the premium to have peace of mind that, if he is the unlucky one with mass widow breakage, he has the means from the insurance company to pay for the fix. The homeowner has balanced his expense with his sense of security.
And he works to do things that will minimize his risk of that single widow break.
Unfortunately when health care is basically a freebie, whether you get it totally free or have to pay for it anyway, it will be used indiscriminately without any personal judgement as to the value received for the money spent.
And since the person can no longer be relied on to screen for this, the government provider will do so for him lest frivolous use bankrupt the program.
In other words, with Obamacare, you have traded personal options for what care you get for the government deciding that. And try to get that monolithic agency to change their rules just because your puny little body is the one suffering, especially if you are too sick to fight.
The government will take your money beforehand to pay for this insurance for others thereby lessing your ability to get your choice of care when you need it.

jwal10 · #62 12/04/13, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

Health insurance is more than just a way to cover medical expenses, it also provides access to care. Insured people will have access to care regardless of their ability to pay to copay, since providers will settle for the insurance portion. It's hard to put a price tag on the value of access.

Access yep, Until the goobermutt decides YOU don't need it. After all they know better than you do. Me, I have never been turned down, cash will always talk.

The problem today everyone wants a Cadillac, as long as someone else pays. And they all think they will live forever. Me I will live my natural life and die when God lets me...James

Nevada · #63 12/04/13, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwal10

Access yep, Until the goobermutt decides YOU don't need it. After all they know better than you do.

All Obamacare insurance is private insurance, and private insurance companies do their own medical authorizations.

arabian knight · #64 12/04/13, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

All Obamacare insurance is private insurance, and private insurance companies do their own medical authorizations.

So what? It is the Government that Set the Standards as to what is covered and what is NOT. Has nothing to do at all with the insurance companies Nice side step though.

Molly Mckee · #65 12/04/13, 08:41 PM

Way more people are signing up for Medicaid the for regular insurance, last figures I saw for WA were 6 to 1. Medicaid is not private insurance.

jwal10 · #66 12/04/13, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

All Obamacare insurance is private insurance, and private insurance companies do their own medical authorizations.

Right now it is but this is not what he wanted, this will never work and he will go for what he always wanted, a single provider. Goobermutt insurance....James

Tricky Grama · #67 12/05/13, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren

In a perfect world that would work.

We've now seen what should be obvious. Government, which isn't for profit, should not attempt to provide a service without the incentive that would cause a for profit to make sure it works. Substituting political exigency for the profit motive doesn't work.

to make it worse, the insurance companies walked away smiling because their lobbying ensured they will profit handsomely from the government meddling in health care. While what we had and still have for some wasn't perfect, it worked for most Americans.

Creating a system with huge deductions and unnecessary requirements has already began to disrupt medical care. We don't have enough doctors and nurses. The huge disincentive that is ACA with more paperwork piled on top of the other paperwork required by regulations isn't the way to maintain quality care throughout this country.

Increased heath costs are directly attributable to government intervention in the past. The middle class can't handle the forced charity aspect of ACA. The money isn't there. Many families would have to pay huge amounts they don't have to fulfill deductible requirements before they get coverage. That means they effectively do not have health insurance!

For something that potentially means life or death for productive families, you can't let feel good destroy them. Yet that is the basic premise of ACA. ACA is a premeditated lie that took advantage of people's sense of fairness to inflict something that is the antithsis of fairness on the American people. Was that done on purpose? I hope not. Rather I think it demonstrates beyond doubt the incompetence of the President and the those in Congress who are way past their expiration date.

Why Health Insurance Cannot Work - General Chat

Tricky Grama · #68 12/05/13, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Health care costs more than the average person can pay. To have a company pay our health care costs, keeping a portion for their efforts, is health insurance. If you cannot pay your health care costs, why would you think you could afford to pay someone to do it for you?
The average couple will use $300,000 in government sponsored Medicare. Those getting this health care welfare will explain it away with, " Well I paid into it, so I've got it coming to me." But they don't do the math. They don't see that they paid a tiny fraction into Medicare. So, the taxpayers (mostly the middle class, soon to be known as the Working Poor)are funding health care of senior citizens, even those with millions in assets.
ACA just takes the health care costs of the poor, Medicaid, now paid by all taxpayers, sets up a new agency so everyone that is earning money pays more for insurance, so the poor people will be covered.
The only change is that everyone must have more coverage than they want and the ones that earn more than the poverty level, but not enough to afford insurance will now be forced to buy something they can't afford.
But the key here is that we must stop thinking that insurance gets us more than we pay in. You can't have a policy that costs $300 a month and expect to get $3100 in Medical care each year average. Some folks see insurance as a way to cut their health care costs. Wrong, it increases your health care costs. Insurance can only smooth out the risks, spread out the catastrophic events. But you pay for that privilege.

So, tell us, then WHY did Idiotincharge take over 700 billion from medicare, a program that is destined to die on the vine as it is???

Tricky Grama · #69 12/05/13, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

Health insurance is more than just a way to cover medical expenses, it also provides access to care. Insured people will have access to care regardless of their ability to pay to copay, since providers will settle for the insurance portion. It's hard to put a price tag on the value of access.

And with ObummerUNcare, there will be very little access. Not enuf docs & nurses. PERIOD!

Darren · #70 12/05/13, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwal10

Right now it is but this is not what he wanted, this will never work and he will go for what he always wanted, a single provider. Goobermutt insurance....James

What he wants and what he gets are two different things. ACA is looking more and more like the iceberg that will sink the titanic socialist schemes.

1. ACA is a proven disaster anyway you look at it. It doesn't work for buyers. It doesn't work for the insurance companies. The latest tidbit about calling the insurance company to confirm if you really have medical coverage is the killer. If the insurance company doesn't get your application, and that isn't happening in most cases, don't you think people are going to be upset?

2. We now know ACA will neither be revenue neutral nor generate the surpluses some expected.

3. Polls and articles are flooding out with the message that the ACA mess will unelect Democrats that were previously thought to hold safe seats. That means the GOP has a real shot at taking the Senate in 2014 with no chance of losing the House.

4. There have already been calls for Obama's impeachment. With control of both the Senate and the House and the fact that Reid nuked the Senate, the Republicans will have everything they need to send Obama into early retirement.

4. Now that the Democrats have proven even to many of their ardent supporters in the media that the government is truly inept, how is single payer got a chance in hell now that the younger generations per the Harvard study want nothing to do with government run medicine?

4. ACA is done. It's all over except for putting a fork in it.

jwal10 · #71 12/05/13, 09:29 AM

This mess is not working at all like they wanted, Goobermutt was hoping to have all the scared rabbits on the list already. The scared rabbits would be doing their dirty work for them, just like Nevada has been doing. They Got ya' now....James

Darren · #72 12/05/13, 09:51 AM

The sad part is Obama running around the country trying to drum up support. The emperor truly has no clothes.

Yvonne's hubby · #73 12/05/13, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricky Grama

And with ObummerUNcare, there will be very little access. Not enuf docs & nurses. PERIOD!

I caught a bit of a discussion about this last night. If I got it right there are only 7 pediatricians signed on in one state that has something like 270 thousand kids. Hope these kids stay healthy!

where I want to · #74 12/05/13, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

I caught a bit of a discussion about this last night. If I got it right there are only 7 pediatricians signed on in one state that has something like 270 thousand kids. Hope these kids stay healthy!

The next step is to mandate that all doctors particpate.
And then you can also control what they get paid.
Then there is no sense in having insurance companies at all and the employees of those companies can get nationalized into I-know-what's-best cabinet level agency.

Darren · #75 12/05/13, 11:28 AM

Why do you want to take free will choice away from doctors? Many of those in rural areas are not rolling in dough. The Soviet way was to order doctors to go to where they were needed. That was back in the collective days. Even under the mantra of common good that is still slavery.

haypoint · #76 12/05/13, 01:56 PM

ACA can't work, for a host of reasons. Being run by the government is just one of them.
But we know that. But most folks need health insurance and many think it should cover everything. But no one wants to pay for it. We need to get it in our heads that the $10,000 knee replacement is being paid in real dollars that the insurance company expects to get back in premiums. If the average person is going to expect insurance to cover them for $10,000 a year or $200,000 in a lifetime, you beter get out the pencil and realize that amount of coverage is $1000 a month. If you can't afford that, you'd better get to seperating your needs from your wants.
I've always worked where my employer paid much of my health insurance costs. Back then it wasn't too costly. But the monster has grown. I had surgery from a doctot that refused to deal with insurance. You want an office visit, pay for it and take the paperwork to your insurance and figure it out. The insurance company jerked me around for months until I got my money. I got to see what most doctors deal with every day. So, health care costs go up because the Doctor has to hire full time folks to file the paperwork with the insurance companies. Then we pay more for health insurance to cover those costs.

Nevada · #77 12/05/13, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

ACA can't work, for a host of reasons. Being run by the government is just one of them.

Medicare works, and it's run by the government.

Darren · #78 12/05/13, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

Medicare works, and it's run by the government.

That depends on your definition of "works." In the business world no company could afford the losses (fraud) that medicare does. In a sane world they would fix medicare's problems before thinking about something like ACA. Obviously that doesn't apply when you're spending other people's money.

Yvonne's hubby · #79 12/05/13, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

Medicare works, and it's run by the government.

Medicare is in serious trouble, was in trouble even before the mighty O tapped its funds by nearly a trillion a year. It only worked for as long as it did because people had no choice but to pay into it during their whole life, and was expected to die before collecting any benefits.

Darren · #80 12/05/13, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

Medicare works, and it's run by the government.

Medicare works so well, it's been defrauded by Russian diplomats in NYC going back to 2004. ACA, with its hacker friendly website, should work even better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/ny...raud.html?_r=0