Interesting: Obamacare

beowoulf90 · #41 10/29/13, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MullersLaneFarm

I do believe you meant to reference Benjamin Franklin in 1755 at the PA Assembly, quoted from his reply to the Governor, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Nope that wasn't the Jefferson Quote I was referring to..

The quote you gave above is Franklin's as you noted..There is a Jefferson quote that would likely label me a terrorist by liberals and those who refuse to follow the Constitution...

I'm a firm believer in the Constitution and think that the Federal Government has over stepped it's bounds AGAIN! The difference this time around is that there are more people awake and aware of the violations..

As people wake the devil up, the Government continue to push even closer to Socialism/Communism. The Government knows this and is trying to get a bigger foothold before enough people wake up..

Take the scam 0bamacare for example..It's nothing more than a defacto registration list run by an incompetent agency that can't even figure out that they are sending millions of false tax rebates to the same address.

Now that they have it and we know that this Admin has done things against some for political reason using this same agency.. What happens to those who oppose this admin? What happens to liberals when the next ultra right wing conservative gets into office?

If you understand history you would know that in either case it isn't good...

You would also know that giving up Liberty and Freedom is a mistake no matter what the Government promises.. Or who is in charge at the moment, because that will change

Ambereyes · #42 10/29/13, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhspirited

We are self employed. For the past several years, we've been buying catastrophic coverage which is currently $281 a month. Jan 1 (under obamacare) our monthly rate will be $111. Our deductible will drop from $15,000 to $5,000. Preventative care is all fully paid for under obamacare (not subject to the deductible or any co-pays)!.

I now have the peace of mind of knowing that the insurance company cannot cancel my coverage if I use my insurance. I won't ever have to file bankruptcy if I have an catastrophic illness and no insurance. Yeah!!! I have multiple sclerosis (mild). I no longer have to hide this fact from my insurance company. I would never have gotten insurance for the past several years if I had disclosed that fact.

People being forced to buy insurance means that my medical rates will no longer be artificially increased due to folks without insurance going to the emergency room and those costs artificially increasing medical costs for the rest of us. No more deadbeats. Everybody pays their fair share.

Those are some of the reasons I love obamacare!

Insurance rates will go up and probably dramatically. Not many people have a pocket full of cash to cover those deductibles and out of pocket expenses. There will still be those who use the ER and not pay because they just don't have that extra.

No not everybody pays their fair share, the middle class is picking up the tab, ask me how I know.. I just got a letter from my insurance costs up 37%, more out of pocket expense and higher deductible. So I went to the lowest insurance I could get through my company, still a big increase.

We help with the support of three elderly relatives (my Mom, MIL & FIL).. So everytime my costs go up it is harder to find the money for them..

Glad you have insurance, for now it sounds good to you but it won't last. There is not going to be the sign up of the young folks, most of them see right through this mess. Besides most can't afford it.

Tricky Grama · #43 10/29/13, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belfrybat

I'm not sure I can say this in a way that will be understood, but there is no "Obamacare" in the sense that insurance is coming from the government (except for expanded Medicaid in those States that do that). ALL "Obamacare" insurance is through private insurance companies. If you don't have insurance, then you use the marketplace to buy insurance, but it comes through private insurance companies.

If you already have health insurance, you are covered--no need to go to the marketplace website -- and you will not have a fine since you have insurance.

I don't know where the myth came from that health insurance is going to be provided through anything other than private insurance companies. All the marketplace sites provide is a way to compare various insurance policies and purchase health insurance.

Some states did not set up a marketplace which is why the healthcare.gov site exists.
Those uninsured folks who live in states that set up their own marketplace go to that state's site to buy insurance. Again, all from private insurance companies, not the government.

Of course. Not sure who thought otherwise. But it is the thing about being forced to buy something that the gov't thinks they know more about than the individual. Its "you have to have THIS", not: 'you can have what you want'. There's gonna be far more w/o ins than there was b/4 all this started.

The Idiotincharge lied thru his teeth-'course not many of us are surprised-when he said "You can keep your doctor. You can keep your insurance"-BIG LIE.

Tricky Grama · #44 10/29/13, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

I'm one of those people that had good private insurance . I received a letter stating I couldn't keep it after the end of the year . Insurance may be offered by private companies but Obamacare has definitely had a negative effect on what's available for responsible people not looking for a handout .

Tricky Grama · #45 10/29/13, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhspirited

There is so much false information in this thread. I don't have time to list it all. Please know though that Obamacare is a GOOD thing. Don't believe all the false claims.

It is NOT.
I suppose you'll say it it b/c of pre-existing conditions now covered? Then why not fix just that? Or b/c 26 y/o babies still on parents' policies? Why not a provision for those who want that?
NO need for a 3K page debacle that will bankrupt our country & alienate millions who DO NOT WANT THIS.

Tricky Grama · #46 10/29/13, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

It's a good thing for those who get either Medicaid or almost free health insurance. Or for someone who has a very expensive medical condition and now can get health insurance where the true costs are covered by the healthier members of the group.
The government could have achieved all that without screwing up insurance for the whole country. All it would take is honesty to say that we are going to tax you more to do these things. Not pleasant but at least truthful.
As it stand now, the choice for most people to get what works best for the individual has been sacrified wholesale to help a smaller group benefit largely.

Tricky Grama · #47 10/29/13, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV_FL

I already have to support my family...now I am forced to support your family? What are you going to do when all of the people like me decide this working stuff is for chumps?

This money isn't free people! Somebody has to pay your premiums. I'll give you a hint...the "evil' rich and corporations don't have that kind of money, it is all going to come out of the middle class, the people like me who are getting fed up with this.

And while you may not go bankrupt for your medical bills, the collective "we" are on a path to bankruptcy.

Ambereyes · #48 10/29/13, 07:27 AM

I was so impressed when I found out that now I have to carry maternity coverage, NOT.. If I get pregnant it will be a miracle, at 59 I am well past that stage.. Yeah, Obamacare is great, makes me gag just to say that..

Tricky Grama · #49 10/29/13, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Nope that wasn't the Jefferson Quote I was referring to..

The quote you gave above is Franklin's as you noted..There is a Jefferson quote that would likely label me a terrorist by liberals and those who refuse to follow the Constitution...

I'm a firm believer in the Constitution and think that the Federal Government has over stepped it's bounds AGAIN! The difference this time around is that there are more people awake and aware of the violations..

As people wake the devil up, the Government continue to push even closer to Socialism/Communism. The Government knows this and is trying to get a bigger foothold before enough people wake up..

Take the scam 0bamacare for example..It's nothing more than a defacto registration list run by an incompetent agency that can't even figure out that they are sending millions of false tax rebates to the same address.

Now that they have it and we know that this Admin has done things against some for political reason using this same agency.. What happens to those who oppose this admin? What happens to liberals when the next ultra right wing conservative gets into office?

If you understand history you would know that in either case it isn't good...

You would also know that giving up Liberty and Freedom is a mistake no matter what the Government promises.. Or who is in charge at the moment, because that will change

We're on a roll, huh.

Tricky Grama · #50 10/29/13, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambereyes

I was so impressed when I found out that now I have to carry maternity coverage, NOT.. If I get pregnant it will be a miracle, at 59 I am well past that stage.. Yeah, Obamacare is great, makes me gag just to say that..

Shoot, you have more of a chance than my 62 y/o DH!!

Ambereyes · #51 10/29/13, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricky Grama

Shoot, you have more of a chance than my 62 y/o DH!!

LOL, yeah we both got some missing parts..

One of my nephews found out that was included, he said when he grows a uterus he will sign up..

7thswan · #52 10/29/13, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhspirited

We are self employed. For the past several years, we've been buying catastrophic coverage which is currently $281 a month. Jan 1 (under obamacare) our monthly rate will be $111. Our deductible will drop from $15,000 to $5,000. Preventative care is all fully paid for under obamacare (not subject to the deductible or any co-pays)!.

I now have the peace of mind of knowing that the insurance company cannot cancel my coverage if I use my insurance. I won't ever have to file bankruptcy if I have an catastrophic illness and no insurance. Yeah!!! I have multiple sclerosis (mild). I no longer have to hide this fact from my insurance company. I would never have gotten insurance for the past several years if I had disclosed that fact.

People being forced to buy insurance means that my medical rates will no longer be artificially increased due to folks without insurance going to the emergency room and those costs artificially increasing medical costs for the rest of us. No more deadbeats. Everybody pays their fair share.

Those are some of the reasons I love obamacare!

Sinse My HC is now over 20,ooo per year- I'm paying for You-

Molly Mckee · #53 10/29/13, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhspirited

We are self employed. For the past several years, we've been buying catastrophic coverage which is currently $281 a month. Jan 1 (under obamacare) our monthly rate will be $111. Our deductible will drop from $15,000 to $5,000. Preventative care is all fully paid for under obamacare (not subject to the deductible or any co-pays)!.

I now have the peace of mind of knowing that the insurance company cannot cancel my coverage if I use my insurance. I won't ever have to file bankruptcy if I have an catastrophic illness and no insurance. Yeah!!! I have multiple sclerosis (mild). I no longer have to hide this fact from my insurance company. I would never have gotten insurance for the past several years if I had disclosed that fact.

People being forced to buy insurance means that my medical rates will no longer be artificially increased due to folks without insurance going to the emergency

room and those costs artificially increasing medical costs for the rest of us. No more deadbeats. Everybody pays their fair share.

Those are some of the reasons I love obamacare!

Remember, reports have over 50% of the premiums are wrong, by very large numbers. I have not seen any plans that don't require co-pays except Medicaid. So be sure to thank all the people that are paying your way! Just how long do you think we can print money to pay for whatever we want?

You might take some economics courses, and maybe history, it might help your business, as well as make you understand why this obamacare will not work. There isn't enough money in medical care, let alone waste to pay the expense of this bill. You are not paying anywhere near your share.

where I want to · #54 10/29/13, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhspirited

Preventative care is all fully paid for under obamacare (not subject to the deductible or any co-pays)!.

With Obamacare, I now have the peace of mind of knowing that the insurance company cannot cancel my coverage if I use my insurance. I won't ever have to file bankruptcy if I have an catastrophic illness and no insurance. Yeah!!! I no longer have to hide medical information from my insurance company. I would never have gotten insurance for the past several years if I had disclosed all.

People being forced to buy insurance means that my medical rates will no longer be increased due to folks without insurance going to the emergency room and those costs increasing medical costs for the rest of us. No more deadbeats. Everybody pays their fair share.

The costs of Obamacare will be covered, and it will reduce the deficit in future years.

.

You are perfectly right about the part that the insurance companies can not cherry pick the healthy to make money as easily as previously.

But everything else is not quite right.

I have had preventive care in my health insurance policy. The test itself was covered but I paid a huge amount for the doctor to read the test, a "facility fee" which turned out to be a charge for housing the equipment and a fee that seems to be to cover the cost of sending paper work- it was never clear. So in the end, I pay more for those covered preventative tests than I paid before they were covered. The hospitals and doctors will get their own- they will just be a little more devious.
And anyway, you may pay little for some tests depending on your income, but the cost, which will be more because it can be more, will be paid by others.

And the studies of the Massachuset's health plan, shows that emergency useage stayed the same or went up. The people who go to the emergency room for minor things, still did.

And how anyone could convince themselves that Obamacare will pay for itself, I don't know. It just shifts the costs to the taxpayer through subsidies and Medicaid. Only there will not be people who actually know the individual cost any more. The government will have to rein in the costs and it will not be pleasant for those people who are reined in.

painterswife · #55 10/29/13, 02:05 PM

Well. I just sent off our companies renewal forms. The insurance went down. Not a huge amount but it went down.

lhspirited · #56 10/29/13, 11:19 PM

From Wikipedia article on Obamacare: "The 2011 comprehensive CBO estimate projected a net deficit reduction of more than $200 billion during the 2012–2021 period:[230][231] it calculated the law would result in $604 billion in total outlays offset by $813 billion in total receipts, resulting in a $210 billion net reduction in the deficit.[230]"

arabian knight · #57 10/29/13, 11:59 PM

And once again, Wiki is Not a reliable source to be quoting from.

Molly Mckee · #58 10/30/13, 12:16 AM

In 2011 they thought that obamacare's web site would work, and "if you liked your insurance you could keep it". Wikipedia is notoriously wrong on many things, and 2011 information has nothing to do with today. There is no way obamacare will save any money. It looks like at least double the people in WA will qualify for medicaid and I would guess the rest of the country will be similar. With all the rebates, the lack of young people signing up and expanded coverage this is going to bankrupt the country, or implode.

The "facts" on wikipedia are wistful thinking and downright lies, told to the American people to help win an election. There was never the overcharging and waste that was claimed, and the medical community does not have the resources to pay for obamacare, even tho the bill claims it will take money from the greedy medical system to help pay for everyone's care.

Tricky Grama · #59 10/30/13, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molly Mckee

In 2011 they thought that obamacare's web site would work, and "if you liked your insurance you could keep it". Wikipedia is notoriously wrong on many things, and 2011 information has nothing to do with today. There is no way obamacare will save any money. It looks like at least double the people in WA will qualify for medicaid and I would guess the rest of the country will be similar. With all the rebates, the lack of young people signing up and expanded coverage this is going to bankrupt the country, or implode.

The "facts" on wikipedia are wistful thinking and downright lies, told to the American people to help win an election. There was never the overcharging and waste that was claimed, and the medical community does not have the resources to pay for obamacare, even tho the bill claims it will take money from the greedy medical system to help pay for everyone's care.

lhspirited · #60 10/30/13, 09:18 AM

The source of the wikipedia article is the congressional budget office. I should have said that. I don't think we know more that the expert analysts and economists at the Congressional Budget Office.