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  #41  
Old 08/25/13, 09:16 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowdweller View Post
Very true. It is possible for poor and abused people to rise above their circumstances.

However studies show that people who grew up in extremely poor or who went to underfunded schools mostly do not do as well or rise above their circumstances.

It's really sort of myth that is perpetuated that poverty and cultural deprivation are not impediments. It's not borne out by scientific evidence.


http://economy.money.cnn.com/2012/04...oor-stay-poor/
If that were true, my parent's generation would have all ended up in prison and yet they didn't. Many went to one room school houses with one old maid teacher who taught 8 grades at the same time and they still managed to learn more by the 8th grade than a high school grad will learn today. Many quit by the 6th grade or earlier and had learned enough math, science, English, etc. to start and operate businesses.
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  #42  
Old 08/25/13, 11:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by poppy View Post
No one is saying all black people are criminals or in prison. However, YOUNG black males are a huge problem in this country when it comes to crime. They have gotten far worse than their parent's generation and the same is true in the Hispanic community, but to a somewhat lesser degree. Whites are affected to an even lesser degree. Stereotypes has nothing to do with it. Facts are facts. Pick any young black male on an inner city street after dark and the odds are high he has a history with law enforcement and the facts are they commit several crimes before they are caught and go to prison.
So, what do you suggest be done with them? Re-education camps? Involuntary sterilization? Something else?
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  #43  
Old 08/26/13, 01:04 AM
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Isn't it true that violent crime was at a 40 year low last year, and has been steadily declining for going on 20 years? I attend a predominantly black college in SC and trust me, the people are there to learn and better themselves. There is no great difference in Americans of various races. You all's "the world is going to hell in a hand basket" attitude has no foundation, but, carry on.
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  #44  
Old 08/26/13, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MO_cows View Post
Very good point. But those kids you knew back then weren't just born knowing how to behave well. It was taught to them, they had expectations placed on them. That doesn't happen as often today, even in the "not poor" segments of society.
You are so right.
OTOH, those who are killing out of boredom were not born that way either, huh.
This is becoming epidemic, something needs to be done, to late to put a 'gov't program' in place, there needs to be police action, NOW.
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  #45  
Old 08/26/13, 07:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowdweller View Post
I'll give it a try. When you read a lot of the comments by a lot of the people on this forum, it's all about how black people are on welfare or are criminals.

Well it's true that there are a lot higher percentage of black people in prison or on public assistance.

But they are not even the majority of black people but if you listened the the people here on the forum you'd think 90% of all African americans were on welfare or gangbangers.

So this racial stereotype perpetuated by the right mostly sinks into the consciousness of the nation and then people refuse to hire African americans, especially men because so many people are perpetuating a stereotype of them.

You know how a lot of gun owners on the right feel the media and some people portray gun owners and paranoid and criminals?

Know how gun owners hate all gun owners being associated with gun crime because they are just normal people??

Same thing.
No one has stated any thing that I have seen saying all blacks or nearly all blacks, they have stated exactly what you have said, that a disproportionate amount of blacks are on government assistance, and that most blacks who voted voted for Obama. Growing up in the south, I have seen REAL racism, I have seen Klan marches and rallies, I saw the rise of Neo-Nazi gangs in the inner city by white youth and I am a fair bit younger than most on this forum. Yes there may be a "fear" amongst some in hiring practices, but I would easily argue that much of this fear is perpetuated as much by the young black culture as anything else.

If you statistically have 25% of your population having served sailed time between that ages of 16 and 24 (black males), if you have a culture that promotes gang behavior, if you have non-elected leaders that race bait every opportunity and create divides then your gonna cause an emotional reaction in someone else. Out of 150+ kids I put in the US Air Force while working as a recruiter, 90+ of them where black. I had 19 high schools/2 colleges in my "zone" and 11 of the high schools where all black. The majority of the blacks joining from High School where female BTW, Males generarrly waited until 19-21 until deciding they needed to do something with their life, but that was a norm across all races. I was successful in marketing to the community because I did/do in fact listen to rap, hip-hop, I grew up in the same poor neighborhoods they lived in etc. etc.
The CULTURE and therefor the norms of the CULTURE of American black youth, is very very very different than portrayed in media etc. BUT there is a level of acceptance of poverty a level of acceptance of violence and an almost expected level of entitlement amongst them.

I am not saying white youth culture is that much better these days, but there are distinct differences of the product coming from the 2 "camps" I will address more below the next quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesedays View Post
So, what do you suggest be done with them? Re-education camps? Involuntary sterilization? Something else?
No one has suggested that except the 1-2 who off handedly said round up all "thugs". I will however answer what could help although most Americans won't like it because it takes time to implement.

1. We stop rewarding bad behavior and start rewarding good behavior. I.E. a married man with kids SHOULD get just as much in benefits if needed than a signle mom.

2. We Stop playing the fool to politics attempting to manipulate popular opinion based on the needs/desires of the fringe elements- for every true racist there is, or true "bigot" there is an equally number of folks crying wolf on behalf of a segment of peoples be it blacks, gays, hispanics etc. that scream racism/hatred everywhere even when its not there.

3. We as a nation of communities attempt to reinstall the nuclear family as a positive and viable option to the building block of our republic. Saying this and "selling this idea" is not gay bashing or targeting single mothers, it is reinforcing something we know as a society that works. not saying that any other way cannot work, but that is has a better chance of producing a better outcome.

4. Get the government out of our bedrooms and boardrooms. The federal government and therefor by default federal politicians have no right and our authority to classify marriage or to classify/outlaw morality, that delegation of power should be to the states if to anyone at all. There is a lot that goes into this including complete revamp of the tax code, of federal drug laws etc. not easy BUT DOABLE.

5. Shift the national paradigm from sports an celebrity idolization to that of humanitarian idolization, This one is probably the most difficult for adults to grasp, easiest for children and would have the most impact. Make sure your children and your grand children or visiting kids see books in your home, see real art on your walls, see scientists and weekly technology facts being discussed as commonly as last nights game, show the children there are more and better hero's than just those that run fast, throw far or jump high. Children will mimic their hero's but if you never allow them exposure to the many true ones out there, how will they know?

Post is all ready too long so good luck and good morning.
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  #46  
Old 08/26/13, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowdweller View Post
I'll give it a try. When you read a lot of the comments by a lot of the people on this forum, it's all about how black people are on welfare or are criminals.

Well it's true that there are a lot higher percentage of black people in prison or on public assistance.

But they are not even the majority of black people but if you listened the the people here on the forum you'd think 90% of all African americans were on welfare or gangbangers.

So this racial stereotype perpetuated by the right mostly sinks into the consciousness of the nation and then people refuse to hire African americans, especially men because so many people are perpetuating a stereotype of them.

You know how a lot of gun owners on the right feel the media and some people portray gun owners and paranoid and criminals?

Know how gun owners hate all gun owners being associated with gun crime because they are just normal people??

Same thing.
I'd like to see the facts to back up your statements, that most here think 90% of blacks are welfare gangbangers.
MY facts are that the overwhelming majority of 'hate' crime is black on white. And I'll go out on a limb here & swear that its NOT the white collar black workers who are committing those crimes.
I'll also venture to say that MOST companies are shickled_itless to hire an educated, qualified-for-the-job black person.
So, I'm in agreement that MOST black people are NOT welfare criminals...therefore why doesn't the black community take control & get these thugs off the streets? That is what we're discussing here, the senseless murders by black thugs.
The communities are not able to do it, we need a SWAT-type force.
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  #47  
Old 08/26/13, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy View Post
No one is saying all black people are criminals or in prison. However, YOUNG black males are a huge problem in this country when it comes to crime. They have gotten far worse than their parent's generation and the same is true in the Hispanic community, but to a somewhat lesser degree. Whites are affected to an even lesser degree. Stereotypes has nothing to do with it. Facts are facts. Pick any young black male on an inner city street after dark and the odds are high he has a history with law enforcement and the facts are they commit several crimes before they are caught and go to prison.
Bingo.
Now -what to do?
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  #48  
Old 08/26/13, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by thesedays View Post
So, what do you suggest be done with them? Re-education camps? Involuntary sterilization? Something else?
Right now, there needs to be a swat-type team to patrol...ANYTHING that goes wrong, the perps should be rounded up. Those w/rap sheeets should be dealt with. Anything to get them off the streets.
I'm confident there's apprx 100 gov't programs for each offense...
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  #49  
Old 08/26/13, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by vicker View Post
Isn't it true that violent crime was at a 40 year low last year, and has been steadily declining for going on 20 years? I attend a predominantly black college in SC and trust me, the people are there to learn and better themselves. There is no great difference in Americans of various races. You all's "the world is going to hell in a hand basket" attitude has no foundation, but, carry on.
So you think the blacks killing blacks & black on white crime should just be ignored? Violent crime is down? Perhaps overall, but NOT among young black males.
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  #50  
Old 08/26/13, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabitha View Post
bad life choices will effect a white person just as much as they will a black one.

so true. I knew folks who went hungry as a child, walked barefoot to school, never slept in a bed by themselves, But..... were on top of the class, polite, considerate, hard working.
Being poor is absolutely no excuse. Orderliness and cleanliness does not cost a thing, neither does being polite, having an interested mind and going to the library is free, paying attention in school does not cost a dime, being respectful to the teacher does not either. Even a not so good teacher has plenty to teach that a kid does not know.
Idle hands do the devil's work.
I had a friend in high school that lived in a house with a dirt floor. All of the kids, and there were a bunch, grew up and made their parents proud ... in a oood way.
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