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  #61  
Old 08/26/13, 04:29 PM
 
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What I ask is who is going to replace him? The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamist group tied to Al Qaeda and other radical Islamist groups. So yes I believe that to do nothing is the right thing to do.
What has happen is that the President made a comment and now every body wants him do so something but I ask why?
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  #62  
Old 08/26/13, 04:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Old Vet View Post
What I ask is who is going to replace him? The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamist group tied to Al Qaeda and other radical Islamist groups. So yes I believe that to do nothing is the right thing to do.
What has happen is that the President made a comment and now every body wants him do so something but I ask why?

Does it even matter?

Most of these countries had U.S. backed brutal Dictators, to beat everyone into submission.

No more. It's a genuine free-for-all

Just like was shown in Egypt, whoever is in charge this week, will have plenty of opposition, willing to die and burn the place down to get them out.

Everyone figured the MB would rule the roost, but now they are receiving a pounding.

It's no win and certainly no peace.

It's going to make the Israel - PLO clash, look like an arm-wresting match.
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  #63  
Old 08/27/13, 07:16 AM
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Looks like something is gonna be done but of course this admin will wait til there's tie for the chem weapons to be moved...seems odd (well not really!) that the media is exactly opposite over the Syria mess than the Iraq mess. Ha.

Anyone remember ol' Hillary's quote of 2011 about Assad? "There's a different leader in Syria. Many members of congress -both parties-who have gone to Syria in recent months havae said they now believe he's a reformer."

I sure hope when this idiot runs for POTUS all her quotes & lies are printed...somewhere that all will see 'em. Like facebood & twitter.
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  #64  
Old 08/27/13, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky Grama View Post
Looks like something is gonna be done but of course this admin will wait til there's tie for the chem weapons to be moved...seems odd (well not really!) that the media is exactly opposite over the Syria mess than the Iraq mess. Ha.

Anyone remember ol' Hillary's quote of 2011 about Assad? "There's a different leader in Syria. Many members of congress -both parties-who have gone to Syria in recent months havae said they now believe he's a reformer."

I sure hope when this idiot runs for POTUS all her quotes & lies are printed...somewhere that all will see 'em. Like facebood & twitter.
Being a "reformer", is a pretty relative term.

Morsi was a "reformer" in Egypt.
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  #65  
Old 08/27/13, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by poppy View Post
That is true on both sides. What did Assad have to gain by doing this? He had to know it would turn the world further against him and invite more foreign intervention at a time when reports say his forces are making gains against the rebels. OTOH, radical Islamists have shown no hesitation in killing other Muslims if it suits their purpose and that purpose could be to invite more foreign intervention on their side.
Some of the invaders did that last year when they tried to direct journalists into a death trap.
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  #66  
Old 08/27/13, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plowjockey View Post
Does it even matter?

Most of these countries had U.S. backed brutal Dictators, to beat everyone into submission.

No more. It's a genuine free-for-all

Just like was shown in Egypt, whoever is in charge this week, will have plenty of opposition, willing to die and burn the place down to get them out.

Everyone figured the MB would rule the roost, but now they are receiving a pounding.

It's no win and certainly no peace.

It's going to make the Israel - PLO clash, look like an arm-wresting match.

I think it will be more similar to the Lebanese Civil war. 30 years now, US, Israel, Syria all meddling in there at one time or the other and they are only just now getting tired of killing each other.

I think the best the US can do is just to have as little to do with the area as possible and still keep terrorists under control.

If the US or Israel makes any moves then they get blamed and both parties join together against them. Better to be hands off and let them fight each other.
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  #67  
Old 08/30/13, 09:25 AM
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Again I have to ask:

What's the big deal about chemical weapons?


Think about it. You have two situations where you have an enemy in an urban environment.

In the first you call in a conventional artillery strike. In the second you call in a chemical strike.

Is the woman who slowly dies in incredible agony when an artillery round hit her building and part of it fell across her lower body any better off than the one which died in a few seconds or minutes from a chemical attack?

Is the child which spends days dying under the rubble of his house after a conventional artillery round better off then the kid who died quickly from a dose of nerve agent?

Is the man who has had both arms blown off by an artillery round any better off than one who lost his to a chemical agent?

Are the survivors of a conventional attack who starve or die from exposure because the buildings in their city are rubble and any food that was in them is inaccessible any better off than those who survive a chemical attach who can, after a few hours, return to their homes?

I find it very strange a lot of people here would have fits and probably demand I be thrown off the board if I suggested that when they kill a critter they should do it in such a way which cause a slow painful death when there is a quick less painful way have no problem demanding that someone in a military conflict do JUST THAT.

And if you think I have no idea what I'm talking about I know plenty about chemical weapons, their effects, their use on the battlefield and the residual effects.
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  #68  
Old 08/30/13, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watcher View Post
Again I have to ask:

What's the big deal about chemical weapons?


Think about it. You have two situations where you have an enemy in an urban environment.

In the first you call in a conventional artillery strike. In the second you call in a chemical strike.

Is the woman who slowly dies in incredible agony when an artillery round hit her building and part of it fell across her lower body any better off than the one which died in a few seconds or minutes from a chemical attack?

Is the child which spends days dying under the rubble of his house after a conventional artillery round better off then the kid who died quickly from a dose of nerve agent?

Is the man who has had both arms blown off by an artillery round any better off than one who lost his to a chemical agent?

Are the survivors of a conventional attack who starve or die from exposure because the buildings in their city are rubble and any food that was in them is inaccessible any better off than those who survive a chemical attach who can, after a few hours, return to their homes?

I find it very strange a lot of people here would have fits and probably demand I be thrown off the board if I suggested that when they kill a critter they should do it in such a way which cause a slow painful death when there is a quick less painful way have no problem demanding that someone in a military conflict do JUST THAT.

And if you think I have no idea what I'm talking about I know plenty about chemical weapons, their effects, their use on the battlefield and the residual effects.
The only difference is that the some treaties have been signed to outlaw them. But it is only outlawed if you are fighting other countries.
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  #69  
Old 08/30/13, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Vet View Post
The only difference is that the some treaties have been signed to outlaw them. But it is only outlawed if you are fighting other countries.
And if a nation hasn't signed those treaties?
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  #70  
Old 08/30/13, 12:33 PM
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John Kerry was using the same words as the Bush Administration used to describe Saddam Hussein but Hussein killed an estimated 1-2 million people.

What good is one strike on Syria going to do? He needs to go to Congress.
This is a horrible thing that has gone on in Syria but they would know that we are coming and Iran could also step in too.
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  #71  
Old 08/30/13, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by watcher View Post
And if a nation hasn't signed those treaties?
Not many have but that is the only reason that I can think of.
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  #72  
Old 08/30/13, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by plowjockey View Post
Being a "reformer", is a pretty relative term.

Morsi was a "reformer" in Egypt.
The point is, this admin has NO foreign policy...which may be a good thing given their absolute stupidity. Hill actually thought Assad was a good thing for Syria.
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  #73  
Old 08/30/13, 08:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Tricky Grama View Post
The point is, this admin has NO foreign policy...which may be a good thing given their absolute stupidity. Hill actually thought Assad was a good thing for Syria.
We can dream up any foreign policy, we want and in the end, other than using blunt physical force, which is only temporary, it has zero effect, on what countries do, or not do.

Look at Iraq and Afghanistan today.

We might as well never went there.
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  #74  
Old 08/30/13, 10:06 PM
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A lot of people would be living who got killed in both places. We should stay out that part of the world, seal our borders, and take care of this country and it's people.
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  #75  
Old 08/31/13, 12:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gapeach View Post
A lot of people would be living who got killed in both places. We should stay out that part of the world, seal our borders, and take care of this country and it's people.
You're an evil isolationist. Go team America!!!!!

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  #76  
Old 08/31/13, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by plowjockey View Post
We can dream up any foreign policy, we want and in the end, other than using blunt physical force, which is only temporary, it has zero effect, on what countries do, or not do.

Look at Iraq and Afghanistan today.

We might as well never went there.
As most of us pointed out, the EXIT was NOT good...this admin has NO foreign policy & we just pulled out, no help no nothing. Of course it is a complete mess now.

Anyone know if Biden will start impeachment if Idiotincharge acts w/o congress? He threatened that b/4 Iraq.
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  #77  
Old 08/31/13, 08:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tricky Grama View Post
As most of us pointed out, the EXIT was NOT good...this admin has NO foreign policy & we just pulled out, no help no nothing. Of course it is a complete mess now.

Anyone know if Biden will start impeachment if Idiotincharge acts w/o congress? He threatened that b/4 Iraq.
What would have been a "good" way to withdraw from Iraq?

As history has always shown in the ME, the bad guys, are more than happy to play the waiting game - whether it's 10 years, or 100 years. They don't care. They have guns, food and plenty of time, that's all they need.

FWIW there is still 90,000 (mostly US) coalition troops in Afghanistan.

Those Taliban savages, and many other militia groups, are not even bothering to wait, until we "exit".

https://www.google.com/#q=afghanista...ence&tbs=qdr:w
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  #78  
Old 08/31/13, 08:55 AM
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As usual, the problem and solution is simple (not easy, but simple).
You first must examine your own morals. Should do something or not?
Do I own any responsibility in this or not?
(Please note the hundred plus years of history in the middle east before answering "No, we had nothing to do with all of this.")

Then, after examining the answers to those questions you do one of two things.
Nothing.
Or complete elimination of the "problem people".

No prisoners, no ground troop mop up, no continuing occupations, just fire and brimstone, metaphorically speaking.
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  #79  
Old 08/31/13, 09:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by farmrbrown View Post
As usual, the problem and solution is simple (not easy, but simple).
You first must examine your own morals. Should do something or not?
Do I own any responsibility in this or not?
(Please note the hundred plus years of history in the middle east before answering "No, we had nothing to do with all of this.")

Then, after examining the answers to those questions you do one of two things.
Nothing.
Or complete elimination of the "problem people".

No prisoners, no ground troop mop up, no continuing occupations, just fire and brimstone, metaphorically speaking.
There are 20 million people in Syria. Are we going to kill them all? That is the only way to ensure, that all of the "problem people" will be gone.

This is our usual Middle East conundrum.

If we nothing - things will only get worse.

If we do something - things will only get worse.
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  #80  
Old 08/31/13, 09:56 AM
 
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I wonder how our country would respond if we had spent the last decade bombing white people in a country like Canada instead of brown people in Africa and the middle east? My guess is that our actions would be a lot more like the end of WW2 not like what we have now. I don't understand how we can attack anyone without some idea of what our goals should are. I don't think "punishment" qualifies as a goal.
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