Meddlers, and their meddling laws... pet peeve.

Yvonne's hubby · #41 08/09/13, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri

You are right, I *DID* miss that!

Then again, half the time it was the fault of the other driver.

About the only accidents i have ever heard of caused entirely by the other driver are those where someone has their car parked, and the other driver hits them. Usually, most accidents, even those in which the other driver is the primary cause, could be avoided by the practice of defensive driving. Many many times I have avoided accidents that would have been "caused" by someone else by following one simple rule.... "Never drive any faster than you can safely stop in the distance that you can see the hiway is clear.... and will remain clear, ahead of you." Of course driving this way requires a persons full attention to the highway, side streets, playgrounds, even the country roadsides where dear or other animals could be waiting for their chance to kill you, watching and listening for potential problems each and every second they are behind the wheel. It doesnt leave much time for yakkin on cellphones, playing with radios, putting on makeup, reading the paper, (Yes, I have actually witnessed this!) and the myriad other things most people allow themselves to be distracted by.

Yvonne's hubby · #42 08/09/13, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emdeengee

It is actually simple. Individuals DON'T clean up their messes so society protects itself from incurring more and more problems by introducing laws. That is the whole purpose of living in a society and having any laws at all.

We "infringe" on people's "rights" for the benefit of the rest of society all the time. If the weather has been dry and the risk of forest fires is great we don't let you have a campfire. Sorry if you can't roast your weenies and marshmallows but you lose and the majority wins because there is less risk.

Wouldnt we all be better served if people were indeed required to clean up their own messes, or live in their own squaller as long as they keep their messes to themselves? When their mess isnt bothering anyone else, leave them to it, if their mess harms someone else, then deal with them, harshly!

beowoulf90 · #43 08/09/13, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emdeengee

Wearing seatbelts and crash helmets (not the stupid turtle shells that some bikers wear) does save lives and reduce injuries. That is the reason THE INSURANCE companies have lobbied to have these laws brought in.

You should be aware that if you don't wear a seatbelt or helmet because you feel that it infringes on your freedom then it is sauce for the goose. Your fellow citizens should have the right to exercise their freedom not to have to clean up your mess - either to you or the mess you leave behind.

And the same for your wife/husband and kids. If you choose to take extra risks then they have the freedom to walk away from your stupidity which turned you into a cripple and ruined them financially. Why should you expect them to support you? You chose not to put them first. Enough accidents happen without deliberately trying to make them worse.

I have acquaintances who have faced this. The husband of one refused to wear a seat belt and launched himself through the windshield when he was hit by another driver (never saw the accident coming) suffering traumatic brain injury which left him with a 5 minute memory and a new and vicious personality. Not to mention the medical bills that bankrupted them. Eventually she left with the kids because no one could take his abuse anymore.

Another has a quadriplegic husband because he refused to wear a proper helmet. He is in a care facility and her life and that of their kids is ruined. Because this acquaintance is in Canada she has not been destroyed by the medical bills but you think a child does not suffer enormously when dealing with the results of this kind of blind arrogance? Such fun they have when they visit.

So please tell that to the Smoke Jumpers, Paratroopers, Fire Fighters, Police officers Armed Forces men and women, and the list goes on..

All of the above take EXTRA Risks in life..

Just because you don't agree with the risk, doesn't give you the right to deny it to others..

I can even take it one step farther and say homosexual men can't have unprotected sex because of the extra risk of AIDS..
Yea I can push this "holier than thou" attitude/agenda to the nth degree..

So think about it before you condemn others for what you wouldn't do..

Sawmill Jim · #44 08/09/13, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

We all pay.

I'm still wondering why anyone would want to use lightbulb that cost 75% more to operate.

Why do some choose to drive a gas guzzler ,live in a large house or use hot water heated with electric or gas.

If i make my own money and spend it as i see fit or want to spend it what business it that of anyone else

And if one is over the age of six and has not been taught to think a head about things like drinking and driving maybe they should done been removed from the gene pool after one DUI offence . Does one want to like in a free society or a controlled one where freedom is no longer free.

emdeengee · #45 08/09/13, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

So please tell that to the Smoke Jumpers, Paratroopers, Fire Fighters, Police officers Armed Forces men and women, and the list goes on..

All of the above take EXTRA Risks in life..

Just because you don't agree with the risk, doesn't give you the right to deny it to others..

I can even take it one step farther and say homosexual men can't have unprotected sex because of the extra risk of AIDS..
Yea I can push this "holier than thou" attitude/agenda to the nth degree..

So think about before you condemn others for what you wouldn't do..

It is always easy to twist to suit your argument. Choosing to not wear a helmet when riding your bike is foolish. Soldiers aren't foolish - they wear their helmets.

There is a difference between normal risk and for lack of a better word - stupid and irresponsible risk. Accelerated risk. People take risks everyday of their lives which is part of living. If you have any common sense you weigh the options, assess the risk and you take precautions.

A little while ago a tourist tripped and cracked his head open on the curb when walking down Main street. Should we make wearing a helmet when walking on the street a law? No ,because that is a normal risk we take in life and it is a real accident. It is easily foreseeable that when you crash your motorcycle at 40 miles per hour and launch yourself head first into the asphalt you will crack your head open like a watermelon. Enough crash testing has been done to prove that a helmet gives you a better chance of surviving.

I don't condemn others. I just think they are arrogant and irresponsible. If you want to ride around without a helmet then do so.

The fact that you have chosen to live in a society means that you have to conform to it so when you get a ticket for not wearing a helmet don't be petulant about it.

You can always stop the world and get off. There are societies where you don't have to wear a helmet or even follow any laws - but then you take the risk that there is someone bigger and badder than you out there who will come along when you are lying unconscious on the asphalt and not be there to help but rather slit your throat and steal your nice leather jacket.

emdeengee · #46 08/09/13, 12:49 PM

[QUOTE=beowoulf90;6693602]
Just because you don't agree with the risk, doesn't give you the right to deny it to others..

And I don't deny anyone the right to apply for a job that has extra risk involved. In actual fact our society denies those who are not qualified or competent. If you haven't got the sense God gave a goose you are not going to be accepted into the fire department or police department. They are looking for people who can assess a risk not just take one and even be foolish enough not to protect themselves and their co-workers.

beowoulf90 · #47 08/09/13, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emdeengee

It is always easy to twist to suit your argument. Choosing to not wear a helmet when riding your bike is foolish. Soldiers aren't foolish - they wear their helmets.

There is a difference between normal risk and for lack of a better word - stupid and irresponsible risk. Accelerated risk. People take risks everyday of their lives which is part of living. If you have any common sense you weigh the options, assess the risk and you take precautions.

A little while ago a tourist tripped and cracked his head open on the curb when walking down Main street. Should we make wearing a helmet when walking on the street a law? No ,because that is a normal risk we take in life and it is a real accident. It is easily foreseeable that when you crash your motorcycle at 40 miles per hour and launch yourself head first into the asphalt you will crack your head open like a watermelon. Enough crash testing has been done to prove that a helmet gives you a better chance of surviving.

I don't condemn others. I just think they are arrogant and irresponsible. If you want to ride around without a helmet then do so.

The fact that you have chosen to live in a society means that you have to conform to it so when you get a ticket for not wearing a helmet don't be petulant about it.

You can always stop the world and get off. There are societies where you don't have to wear a helmet or even follow any laws - but then you take the risk that there is someone bigger and badder than you out there who will come along when you are lying unconscious on the asphalt and not be there to help but rather slit your throat and steal your nice leather jacket.

Yea right!

Wore it to "jump" with then the beret came out..
So why and how did you become my protector?

If you want to live your life afraid of the world, so be it, but don't push your fears on me...

As to "The fact that you have chosen to live in a society means that you have to conform to it "
Lets take that a step farther and use it to say homosexuals can't marry..

Because as you have said you have to conform to society's rules..

Sorry the "rules" are meant to be broken.. Just because some won't take any risks, doesn't mean others won't.. But Government has no right to legislate my risks/morality..

Don't like it, then you can get off the world.. But we ain't stopping!

beowoulf90 · #48 08/09/13, 01:02 PM

[quote=emdeengee;6693626]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Just because you don't agree with the risk, doesn't give you the right to deny it to others..

And I don't deny anyone the right to apply for a job that has extra risk involved. In actual fact our society denies those who are not qualified or competent. If you haven't got the sense God gave a goose you are not going to be accepted into the fire department or police department. They are looking for people who can assess a risk not just take one and even be foolish enough not to protect themselves and their co-workers.

Then stay off a horse, because we all know that if thrown from a horse you can crack you head open like a melon.. How many times have we seen it where someone was thrown from a horse and killed or worse, brain damaged etc..
We should make riding a horse without a helmet illegal.. It's an extra risk you are taking to ride a horse..

I have to love the "I know what's best" attitude/agenda from some...

7thswan · #49 08/09/13, 01:55 PM

I think Power is the root of all evil once you get enough money,and some people don't even care about money,but they sure like the power of turning some folks screws.

emdeengee · #50 08/09/13, 01:59 PM

Always so aggressive and rude with personal attacks. Who says I am afraid of life? You know nothing about my life, what I have done and do. Just because I disagree with you and reckless and irresponsible acts of arrogance when they are unnecessary does no make me afraid of life. In fact I love life and intend to keep living it to the fullest. But I have no intention of being a burden to society so I take sensible precautions.

You just don't like laws that go against your whims. I guess then we should all be able to keep Rock Pythons and 9 foot long crocodiles as house pets because it is the same risk as riding a horse.

Oh wait, there are laws against keeping dangerous animals (actually BANNING them)because the risk is too high and the consequences too dire. But I suppose if you want to keep one then you should be allowed to do so because - well "you wanna". And then when you and your actions are an epic failure then others can deal with the consequences.

Personally I think that our fire and rescue services have enough to do cleaning up legitimate accidents. Go ahead and ride without a helmet but then you and your family should have to pay for all the clean up. Just like those foolish skiers who deliberately go out of bounds and cause an avalanche killing others and then having to be rescued themselves - putting rescue personnel at unnecessary risk. Selfish. But they should have the freedom to do whatever they want right?

Yvonne's hubby · #51 08/13/13, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emdeengee

You just don't like laws that go against your whims. I guess then we should all be able to keep Rock Pythons and 9 foot long crocodiles as house pets because it is the same risk as riding a horse.

Oh wait, there are laws against keeping dangerous animals (actually BANNING them)because the risk is too high and the consequences too dire. But I suppose if you want to keep one then you should be allowed to do so because - well "you wanna". And then when you and your actions are an epic failure then others can deal with the consequences.

Personally I think that our fire and rescue services have enough to do cleaning up legitimate accidents. Go ahead and ride without a helmet but then you and your family should have to pay for all the clean up. Just like those foolish skiers who deliberately go out of bounds and cause an avalanche killing others and then having to be rescued themselves - putting rescue personnel at unnecessary risk. Selfish. But they should have the freedom to do whatever they want right?

Yes, we should all be hanging on to our hard won rights to do as we durn well please, as long as we arent causing harm to others around us. If you want to keep a pet snake... do so! If you want to risk your life skiing in an avalanche area... help yerself. It really concerns NO ONE other than ones own self.... and of course the meddlers who insist upon taking such good care of you instead of minding their own business. Wanna pass a great law? Pass one that keeps the meddlers from meddling in other peoples lives.

arabian knight · #52 08/13/13, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emdeengee

Always so aggressive and rude with personal attacks. Who says I am afraid of life? You know nothing about my life, what I have done and do. Just because I disagree with you and reckless and irresponsible acts of arrogance when they are unnecessary does no make me afraid of life. In fact I love life and intend to keep living it to the fullest. But I have no intention of being a burden to society so I take sensible precautions.

You just don't like laws that go against your whims. I guess then we should all be able to keep Rock Pythons and 9 foot long crocodiles as house pets because it is the same risk as riding a horse.

Oh wait, there are laws against keeping dangerous animals (actually BANNING them)because the risk is too high and the consequences too dire. But I suppose if you want to keep one then you should be allowed to do so because - well "you wanna". And then when you and your actions are an epic failure then others can deal with the consequences.

Personally I think that our fire and rescue services have enough to do cleaning up legitimate accidents. Go ahead and ride without a helmet but then you and your family should have to pay for all the clean up. Just like those foolish skiers who deliberately go out of bounds and cause an avalanche killing others and then having to be rescued themselves - putting rescue personnel at unnecessary risk. Selfish. But they should have the freedom to do whatever they want right?

Yes I agree. And this IS a country of Laws. Nobody wants this to be lawless again like the 'Wild West" and even then they had LAWS. It IS a good thing.

housewife · #53 08/13/13, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Yes, we should all be hanging on to our hard won rights to do as we durn well please, as long as we arent causing harm to others around us. If you want to keep a pet snake... do so! If you want to risk your life skiing in an avalanche area... help yerself. It really concerns NO ONE other than ones own self.... and of course the meddlers who insist upon taking such good care of you instead of minding their own business. Wanna pass a great law? Pass one that keeps the meddlers from meddling in other peoples lives.

But it does concern others... If some dough brain hits you when you don't have your seatbelt on it effects a lot of people. There are all your family and friends. If the accident is bad enough the first responders remember, always. If its some fool skiing off trail its all their family, friends and SAR teams plus all their family and friends. It grows from 1 to thousands real fast. But hey we live in a me first world where honesty is a surprise and we all pay for everyones mistakes.

Yvonne's hubby · #54 08/13/13, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

Yes I agree. And this IS a country of Laws. Nobody wants this to be lawless again like the 'Wild West" and even then they had LAWS. It IS a good thing.

Yeppers, we need laws. We need laws to insure our rights as a free people, we need laws to punish those in our society that would do harm to the rest of us. What we dont need are laws to protect us from ourselves. So far, the only arguments I have seen made on behalf of the meddlers camp involve the issue of we need to protect them from having to clean up someone elses messes. I dont get that at all, NOBODY has assigned anyone the task of cleaning up those messes, rescue workers are all on the job by their own free will. Earlier in the thread someone commented about the state having to take care of accident victims who didnt wear a helmet.... well, now, whose fault is that? Meddlers!

Yvonne's hubby · #55 08/13/13, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housewife

But it does concern others... If some dough brain hits you when you don't have your seatbelt on it effects a lot of people. There are all your family and friends. If the accident is bad enough the first responders remember, always. If its some fool skiing off trail its all their family, friends and SAR teams plus all their family and friends. It grows from 1 to thousands real fast. But hey we live in a me first world where honesty is a surprise and we all pay for everyones mistakes.

Would it not be better to avoid the dough brain hitting you in the first place? The world is not a safe place, it never has been and it never will be. Avalanches happen, my advice? dont be on the down hill side when they do. Car accidents happen, again, dont be there when they do. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, the number of fatal car crashes in parking lots are extremely rare. maybe its the seat belts that prevent them in parking lots?

housewife · #56 08/13/13, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Would it not be better to avoid the dough brain hitting you in the first place? The world is not a safe place, it never has been and it never will be. Avalanches happen, my advice? dont be on the down hill side when they do. Car accidents happen, again, dont be there when they do. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, the number of fatal car crashes in parking lots are extremely rare. maybe its the seat belts that prevent them in parking lots?

Ok your right it is always better to avoid the dough brain... not always possible but definately better. Personally I'm not sure saving lives is a good idea just cause it can be done should it but that is an aurguement for another day. Seeing as the bleeding hearts have taken over the world it's not something that will change. Good luck against the dough brains they are everywhere and dough for brains is really the only explination for them. Not that long ago a lady was pulled over doing 140km/h and her make-up. You can't plan for that cause to normal people that is unthinkable!!

SunsetSonata · #57 08/13/13, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Since if one doesnt get in an accident, by paying attention to their business, then there are no injuries to be cared for.

You are under the mistaken notion that you are 100% always in control. Just because you are taking responsibility for everything except that seatbelt does not mean that everyone else is as responsible behind the wheel. There is no time to react when a drunk suddenly veers into your lane at 55mph, or for that matter, when a deer runs in front of you from a blind area. Not to mention, access to veering could be blocked by guardrails or another car for that matter.

**Terri** · #58 08/13/13, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Yeppers, we need laws. We need laws to insure our rights as a free people, we need laws to punish those in our society that would do harm to the rest of us. What we dont need are laws to protect us from ourselves. So far, the only arguments I have seen made on behalf of the meddlers camp involve the issue of we need to protect them from having to clean up someone elses messes. I dont get that at all, NOBODY has assigned anyone the task of cleaning up those messes, rescue workers are all on the job by their own free will. Earlier in the thread someone commented about the state having to take care of accident victims who didnt wear a helmet.... well, now, whose fault is that? Meddlers!

Uh-huh.

I think that if you become handicapped, that you would be SHOCKED if it was decided to let you lie in your own waste until you starve to death. Somehow I think that THAT amount of meddling you would allow
!

Yvonne's hubby · #59 08/13/13, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housewife

Not that long ago a lady was pulled over doing 140km/h and her make-up. You can't plan for that cause to normal people that is unthinkable!!

Which is why we need laws that protect us from others, ourselves, not so much.

Yvonne's hubby · #60 08/13/13, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunsetSonata

You are under the mistaken notion that you are 100% always in control. Just because you are taking responsibility for everything except that seatbelt does not mean that everyone else is as responsible behind the wheel. There is no time to react when a drunk suddenly veers into your lane at 55mph, or for that matter, when a deer runs in front of you from a blind area. Not to mention, access to veering could be blocked by guardrails or another car for that matter.

You musta missed my driving rule that I posted earlier on this thread. Just for you, one more time: "Always drive at a speed that you can see the road ahead is clear and will remain clear in the distance required to stop." I also find it somewhat amusing that you think it takes a drunk driver to veer into your lane. I have been cut off in traffic far more times by soccer moms yapping on cell phones than I have by some guy leaving the bar at closing time.