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08/09/13, 08:36 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paumon
Money .... or religion .... but mostly money.
Who is paying for the consequences of somebody's infraction?
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I dunno? Why would anyone pay for my infraction of not getting in an accident? or my infraction of having a drink?
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 08:43 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmrbrown
Do I get to bump draft you and use the "chrome horn" if you're in my way?
I'll wear a helmet, 4 way restraints and install a roof flap....... 
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nope, you should not be allowed to interfere with others, or cause them harm, thats just common sense. I understand having laws that protect me from others. What I have trouble dealing with is the laws that attempt to protect me from myself.
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 08:46 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmrbrown
You could just govern every vehicle at 15 mph and no one would ever die again.
Government mandated Utopia.........wait, they've already tried that, haven't they?
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15 mile per hour speed limits would probably save a lot more lives than seat belts for sure. ever notice how few fatalities occur in parking lots?
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 09:33 AM
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Just howling at the moon
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 5,530
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People would be a lot safer drivers if you took away the seat belts and replaced the steering wheel airbag with a dagger pointed at their chest.
WWW
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If the grass looks greener it is probably over the septic tank. - troy n sarah tx
Our existance here is soley for the expoitation of CMG
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08/09/13, 09:43 AM
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nobody
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby
nope, you should not be allowed to interfere with others, or cause them harm, thats just common sense. I understand having laws that protect me from others. What I have trouble dealing with is the laws that attempt to protect me from myself. 
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Awwwwww.......I guess now I'll have to unload those 12 cases of Appalachia's finest outta the trunk, too........
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08/09/13, 09:51 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alabama (east central)
Posts: 3,108
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The whole seat belt-thing is a HUGE peeve of mine. I can understand laws that prevent one from harming others (burn laws, for example...torching that huge pile of debris in one's backyard in drought conditions on a windy day comes to mind), but how does it harm John Q if I don't wear a seat belt? Does wearing a seat belt cause the driver to drive slower, better, safer? On the other hand, and just to be fair here, does not wearing a seat belt cause the drive to drive less safely? The answer to both is no.
I now wear one, but ONLY because I got tired of paying tickets.
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08/09/13, 10:54 AM
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Dallas
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: N of Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,119
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Try scraping idiots up off the pavement after an accident for a while and you'll know why there are seat belt laws.
Also if you do have an accident you're more likely to keep control of your car and not run into innocent bystanders because you're flying around inside/outside your car instead of holding onto the steering wheel.
I do understand that we have way too many meddling laws on the books, but seat belts ain't one of them.
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08/09/13, 11:07 AM
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nobody
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,808
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Yes, because we have to gear laws for the lowest common denominator and least competent. Those of us who can outdrive 99% of the population without wrecking and maintain control in all conditions have to sacrifice our liberty for the cause of protecting idiots.
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08/09/13, 11:18 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnn2501
Try scraping idiots up off the pavement after an accident for a while and you'll know why there are seat belt laws.
Also if you do have an accident you're more likely to keep control of your car and not run into innocent bystanders because you're flying around inside/outside your car instead of holding onto the steering wheel.
I do understand that we have way too many meddling laws on the books, but seat belts ain't one of them.
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I would state that bolded part somewhat differently, if you keep control of your vehicle, there would be far fewer accidents if any at all. All the "accidents" I have ever heard of were caused by someone not in control of their vehicle.... I am sure that there are a few rare cases where someone wanted to kill themselves and deliberately drove off a cliff or into a bridge or maybe even oncoming traffic, but thats a deliberate act, not an accident.
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 11:19 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmrbrown
Awwwwww.......I guess now I'll have to unload those 12 cases of Appalachia's finest outta the trunk, too........ 
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I will even help, just set them here on my back porch.
__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 11:30 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 12,664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks Tom
Like we haven't been paying for other people's problems all our lives?
If you don't mind being legislated how to live your life fine. I'll choose my own light bulbs thank you.
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We all pay.
I'm still wondering why anyone would want to use lightbulb that cost 75% more to operate.
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08/09/13, 11:37 AM
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Singletree Moderator
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 12,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby
I dunno? Why would anyone pay for my infraction of not getting in an accident? or my infraction of having a drink?
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I used to work in a hospital.
No, the young men do NOT pay for their brain damaged selves when they are in an accident because they ride motorcycles without helmets. When their insurance runs out the State supports them. The state is therefor justified in insisting on helmets when a motorcycle is ridden.
I agree with you about smoking and such, excepting that the ban on smoking in the grocery store is a good one. Because of it asthmatics and people who are allergic to tobacco can buy groceries.
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08/09/13, 11:40 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,494
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Wearing seatbelts and crash helmets (not the stupid turtle shells that some bikers wear) does save lives and reduce injuries. That is the reason THE INSURANCE companies have lobbied to have these laws brought in.
You should be aware that if you don't wear a seatbelt or helmet because you feel that it infringes on your freedom then it is sauce for the goose. Your fellow citizens should have the right to exercise their freedom not to have to clean up your mess - either to you or the mess you leave behind.
And the same for your wife/husband and kids. If you choose to take extra risks then they have the freedom to walk away from your stupidity which turned you into a cripple and ruined them financially. Why should you expect them to support you? You chose not to put them first. Enough accidents happen without deliberately trying to make them worse.
I have acquaintances who have faced this. The husband of one refused to wear a seat belt and launched himself through the windshield when he was hit by another driver (never saw the accident coming) suffering traumatic brain injury which left him with a 5 minute memory and a new and vicious personality. Not to mention the medical bills that bankrupted them. Eventually she left with the kids because no one could take his abuse anymore.
Another has a quadriplegic husband because he refused to wear a proper helmet. He is in a care facility and her life and that of their kids is ruined. Because this acquaintance is in Canada she has not been destroyed by the medical bills but you think a child does not suffer enormously when dealing with the results of this kind of blind arrogance? Such fun they have when they visit.
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08/09/13, 11:48 AM
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Wait................what?
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 2,254
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Never mind, I'm not getting my point across as coherently as I would like. Sorry!
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08/09/13, 11:51 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terri
I used to work in a hospital.
No, the young men do NOT pay for their brain damaged selves when they are in an accident because they ride motorcycles without helmets. When their insurance runs out the State supports them. The state is therefor justified in insisting on helmets when a motorcycle is ridden.
I agree with you about smoking and such, excepting that the ban on smoking in the grocery store is a good one. Because of it asthmatics and people who are allergic to tobacco can buy groceries.
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You apparently missed what I said in my post. Who pays for my infraction of "not getting into an accident?" Since if one doesnt get in an accident, by paying attention to their business, then there are no injuries to be cared for. As to the business of not smoking in a store, I have no issue with anyone restricting others behavior on their one property, but see no reason for the state to pass legislation banning smoking in all public places.
__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 11:55 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emdeengee
Your fellow citizens should have the right to exercise their freedom not to have to clean up your mess
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Exactly! But for whatever reason, they insist upon interfering, and forcing the rest of society to pay for an individual's personal messes.
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 11:55 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,567
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"Here hold my beer, hand on, and watch this", kinda the dukes of hazard mentality.... this is the mentality of much of our younger generations. No fear, no sense, no consequences or so they think.
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08/09/13, 11:56 AM
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Singletree Moderator
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 12,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby
You apparently missed what I said in my post. Who pays for my infraction of "not getting into an accident?" Since if one doesnt get in an accident, by paying attention to their business, then there are no injuries to be cared for.
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You are right, I *DID* miss that!
Then again, half the time it was the fault of the other driver.
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08/09/13, 11:59 AM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plowjockey
We all pay.
I'm still wondering why anyone would want to use lightbulb that cost 75% more to operate.
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I wonder why a lot of people do the things they do, like eating fish for example, but I am not about to propose a law preventing them from doing so just because I dont like fish, anymore than I would impose a law against shellfish, just because I happen to be allergic to them.
__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/09/13, 12:07 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby
Exactly! But for whatever reason, they insist upon interfering, and forcing the rest of society to pay for an individual's personal messes.
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It is actually simple. Individuals DON'T clean up their messes so society protects itself from incurring more and more problems by introducing laws. That is the whole purpose of living in a society and having any laws at all.
We "infringe" on people's "rights" for the benefit of the rest of society all the time. If the weather has been dry and the risk of forest fires is great we don't let you have a campfire. Sorry if you can't roast your weenies and marshmallows but you lose and the majority wins because there is less risk.
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