The is what a Grand Jury is for.

Unfortunately this important process was ignored, favoring instead, an expensive, but fruitless, dog-and-pony show trial.

If a prosecutor expects to win a case, it's a good idea to have one, in the first place.

This prosecutor did not have one, but everyone got a great reality show out of it and the media is laughing all the way to the bank.

This was one of the few ways the prosecution could get race and profiling introduced. I'm surprised they didn't address it more aggressively once the defense opened the door.

The President of the NAACP just said on Face the Nation that he wants the DOJ to file criminal charges under the hate crime act.
Ok, how about I bring some race into this?
The NAACP is black, the Attorney General is black and the President is black.
If a federal criminal charge is filed, is that racial profiling too? Profiling AGAINST Zimmerman?

I hope they do it. If they do, they'll find out just what happens when outsiders interfere.
If Zimmerman needs armed protection from the Federal gov't. he's got volunteers on standby.
Take my word for it........

Show me the Florida statute that allows assault and battery because someone follows you at a distance and calls the police.
I'll remind you again not to forget that part when you post.

Also show me how Martin knew Zimmerman was armed BEFORE he was shot at point blank range. Explain the math and physics involved in a contact shooting (that's another way of saying point blank, BTW) that prove Zimmerman was NOT on the bottom and Martin on top, facing him, when it happened.
Those are things every student in jr. high knows, so explain that to me like I'm 12.

I'm in strange neighborhoods all of the time. People there know I'm not from there and they eyeball me. Every time I go up to them, give them my name and explain why I'm there. I don't give them attitude. Certainly not in this state.

Whatever happened that night, Martin looked suspicious. We had someone here that looked suspicious. You seldom see people walking where he did. I found out he was an ex-con put away for burglary. I eyeballed him everyday after that and he knew it. I made sure he knew it.

Most people don't casually wander around in the rain. Why did it take Martin so long to return from the 711? I'm still wondering why he was walking in the grass between the houses and the sidewalk. Was that to get a better look at something? That would look suspicious to me.

We now know he was caught in possession of stolen jewelry by his school.

He looked suspicious in the 711 video. He gave me the impression of a shoplifter when he wandered around aimlessly in the store like he was waiting for the clerk to be distracted.

I think a lot more will come out now given the improper activities of the prosecutor and the attorney general's office have been exposed. There's going to be civil lawsuits beyond the one Zimmerman has against NBC. I just hope Benjamin Crump ends up getting sued too. He's the one who started this mess.

You assume the survivors version of events is the whole story. There is no evidence, other than the words of the accused, that Trayvon was not accosted by an armed man at some point.

?????? That would be a no, Greg.

I assume NOTHING.
I know full well that much more happened that night than we'll ever know.
What I don't assume, is that 6 women heard the evidence and rendered a verdict based on that evidence at 10 pm. last night.

Really?
Does that include the autopsy report entered into evidence?
What is the legal definition of "accosted" that you are using, maybe there is a Florida statute that allows assault and battery under those terms?

George Zimmerman started this mess by disregarding the advice of law enforcement and chasing someone. If he wanted to be a real cop, he should have finished his AOJ studies and put in an application to the police force.

For someone that wants to look at everything including what was improperly withheld from the jury, there's lots of information available on the internet that shows how Trayvon disappeared and based on the short amount of time, the phone call, and the tape eliminates all of the possibilities except for Trayvon choosing to and confronting Zimmerman.

If he hadn't knocked Zimmerman down and started beating him, Trayvon would have still been alive today. The police were almost there. Trayvon was home free until he decided to go back. The phone call shows that.

What evidence was presented to show he ignored the advice of the dispatcher?

It's useless.
Those that are prejudiced in this case refuse to look at the evidence. It doesn't fit "their" versions of the events.

A guy got killed while assaulting another man.

In order for someone to be tried, a crime has to be committed. Defending yourself from assault is not a crime.

[sarcasm on]
Assault?
What assault?
I didn't see no assault.

[/sarcasm off]

It doesn't even matter. Even if you could prove conclusively that Zimmerman profiled TM because of racial bias ( which you cannot ), it doesn't give TM the legal right to beat him to death.

Whatever the motives were doesn't matter, what matters is that GZ was being beaten to death and he defended his life. Racism, does not justify TM's attempt to murder GZ.

People get killed, not murdered, every day in this country and it's legal. Look up justified killing. Just because someone gets killed doesn't mean the killer is automatically going to be charged and tried.

As they say around here without smiling, "Some people need killing." I'm not saying Trayvon needed killing. I'm saying there's a line. When you cross it, you may have ensured your death, Trayvon crossed the line when he didn't stop beating Zimmerman when the man called for help. The man was crying for help. That was seen by a witness.

What right did Trayvon have to keep beating him?

The only crime that was committed ( according to all the evidence) was by Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman was the victim of an assault and an attempt on his life.

I have been gone for a while but had to come back to read what was being written about the results of the trial.
Seems like the same things are believed now after the trial as before.
The people who wanted a trial are not satisfied with the results.

As far as profiling, people do it every day. The police do it, the business owner does it, even the person walking down the street does it.

I have no doubt George was scared, and he was on the receiving end of a beat down. What I do question is whether getting a beat-down is justification for murder. I've been in enough fights, I realize the adrenaline that kicks in pretty much overrides any logical thinking, and survival is utmost. In retrospect, I am GLAD i did not have a gun. My guess is Georgie panicked and shot the kid after getting his arse whipped. I guess in this day and age people are so terrified of getting a beating they will kill someone rather than suffer it.

Maybe he didn't want to get shot?

I agree. Except I think Zimmerman believed the beating wasn't going to stop until he wasn't moving any more. The question you have to consider was what was Trayvon saying to Georgie while he was beating him?

We already know about Trayvon's attitude when he walked up to Zimmerman.

We already know Trayvon continued beating Zimmerman after he was whupped.

Have you heard kids get angry at each other and chase one saying they were going to kill them. What do you think Trayvon was saying as he beat Zimmerman?

Did he say he was going to kill him as Zimmerman alleged?

Did he say he was going to beat him to a pulp?

There's no doubt Trayvon was enraged. What do you think he said while enraged and with adrenaline flowing?

Whatever it was, it wasn't pleasant. My guess is the beating plus what Trayvon said panicked Zimmerman. As I said previously Trayvon crossed a line.

to me the single issue is if you were on the ground getting your head bounced on the sidewalk would you be in fear for your life? i would. i know this is gz story but no evidence contradicted his version. im surprised it took the jury 16 hrs. if doj wants to go for civil rights charge they have to overcome the fbi report saying race wasnt involved in shooting.

I'm hoping the FBI report is a showstopper for the DOJ. Given the ignoranti in the administration,. who knows. They may think it's in their best interests to have another show trial. They're certainly being egged on. With the Hispanic vote at risk, however, that may be an end to it.

I'm wondering what Zimmerman thinks about Obama now. that he had to kill his son.

You seem to have a pretty good idea of what Trayvon said to Zimmerman, how is that? You apparently believe Zimmermans account of the fight. Do you think he may be just a little biased? Considering he was being tried for murder and all...
I find it hard to believe that a 158lb kid could have even come close to 'beating to death' the 185lb man he was fighting.

Based on Trayvon's posts I've read elsewhere, I don't expect the kid was saying anything nice. People in a rage usually aren't acting friendly.

Sticks and stones...

I doubt he was in a rage; I think he was hopped up on adrenaline and testosterone which are 2 very powerful natural "drugs". Both of them had a bad case of machismo I suspect.

Agreed. So I'm wondering why that doesn't stop you from repeatedly making hyperbolic and inflammatory statements.

Attacking someone calmly at his age without anger requires a very cold-blooded nature. If that's what happened, I'm glad Zimmerman took him out of the gene pool. Based on his writings, I have no doubt he wouldn't have killed someone later.

Regardless of what was fueling his actions, when he didn't stop the attack when Zimmerman cried for help, he crossed the line.

You know GZ was the one calling for help? You were there? You should have been on the witness stand.

No, you don't know only what you think you know and what you want to believe you know. And the earth is flat as we all know.

Well all is well that ends well, I guess. Our thoughts and prayers are with Zimmerman and his family.

The jury verdict means that there was at least reasonable doubt that Zimmerman shot Martin in anger instead of self defence. It could mean that the jury believed that Zimmerman shot in self defence. We have to wait for a juror to tell us what they thought.

The case should never have come to trial. The liberal politicians and media forced the charges against Zimmerman. They took every opportunity to portray Martin as a child. Using the term child to describe Martin and showing a picture of him when he was a lot younger. Here is a more current pic. He was a strong young man.
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/l.../trayvon_3.jpg

I don't understand how so many people can claim the verdict was wrong and demand that Zimmerman be punished. I do get that the media wanted riots to boost their ratings and that Sharpton and Jackson are rabble-rousers. It's time to move on and let Zimmerman get his life back if he can.

Martin said to Zimmerman he was going to die. He was scared.

Right,and the thing is,there were two dangerous weapons being used. Trayvon was already using his (concrete) when Zimmerman decided if he didn't want to die,he might orta bring his weapon (firearm) out and into the equation.It was self defense folks and nothing else.

You are correct that I don't know what I don't know. But I do know what I do know. That was to be the subject of this thread. As usual there's been some drift.

There's a critical part of this incident that hasn't been well explored here. It's particularly interesting because it was the central part of Crump's falsified press release. It's the now revealed non-girlfriend of Martin. The questionable issues revolve around her and the possible motivation behind the manipulations by Crump.

Nevada repeatedly wondered why she hadn't been prepared better. Nevada was right on target. The preparation of the witness is where I believe the case against Zimmerman falls apart. It goes to what the witness was willing and not willing to do.

I think it's vital to our understanding of what happened. I'll start a new thread and focus on the non-girlfriend witness. It's obvious that many don't know about Crump's deliberate lies. Once you know about the obvious lies, it should pique your curiosity about why Crump had to lie.

It was GZ's head hitting the concrete,so why would Trayvon be calling for help?He was in the process of trying to spill Zimmerman's brains onto the concrete which would have killed him. Trayvon had Zimmerman whipped.He should have stood up and walked away.He chose to keep beating Zimmerman's head into the concrete.

At this point Zimmerman had two options.Keep taking the pounding that would probably kill him or kill the source of the pounding and live. He chose to live.
Trayvon had the same choices,but by his own actions to destroy this (creepy___cracker) that was following him,he chose death.Not intentionally however, just that judging crackers ain't easy and one should never take them for granted.No telling what might happen. http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...3/giveup-1.gif

Zimmerman's own statement was that Martin reached for his gun. For those of you who claim that Martin had won the fight and should have walked away I'll ask you one last question. How many of you would just walk away from a man armed with a gun who you had just had a violent altercation with without either incapaciting or disarming them?

I think this case illustrates the dangers of vigilanteeism, and suggests a breakdown in law and order in our society.

When GZ called 911 from his car to report a suspicious individual in his neighborhood, I believe the dispatcher told him not to follow the 'suspect.' If he had taken that advice and stayed in his vehicle, it's likely the shooting never would have happened.

Likewise, if TM had called 911 when he realized he was being followed, and had chosen to get out of Dodge instead of confronting Zimmerman, he wouldn't have been shot.

Neither man trusted the police to do their job adequately. GZ expressed his frustration to the dispatcher ("These [expletives] always get away"). It appears Martin did not even turn to the police for help.While it's risky to speculate as to another's mindset, I think it's possible that as a young black man, he did not view the police as being his allies. Perhaps it never even occurred to him that he could summon them for help.

When law and order break down in a community, and people no longer trust authority figures to protect them, tragedies like this are the result.

The chance you take when you start a fight is that the other person may be able to beat you. Martin sized up Zimmerman when he walked around his truck. It was then that he decided Zimmerman was dising him and he decided to do something about it. But he didn't realize that Zimmerman was armed.

Martin had several choices that would have probably led to his survival.

1. He could have gone home as suggested by the girl he was talking to.

2. He could have chosen not to knock Zimmerman to the ground.

3. After he had knocked Zimmerman to the ground, he could have stopped instead of straddling Zimmerman and continuing the beating.

4. He could stopped beating Zimmerman on the ground when Zimmerman started crying for help.

5. He could stopped beating Zimmerman on the ground after Zimmerman was crying for help.and the neighbor who witnessed the beating told him to stop. I don't think the gun was in play yet.

Seconds after the neighbor went inside, the gun came out and Martin's options and life expired.

Martin went through at least five points in time when he could have stopped during the confrontation and assault and lived.