Wyoming threatens to jail Fed. agents enforcing gun laws

Bearfootfarm · #21 01/11/13, 08:40 AM

Quote:

They could legally limit a lot of sales simply by working through the commerce clause regardless of the second amendment.

No, they can NOT do it "legally" BECAUSE of the 2nd Amendment

watcher · #22 01/11/13, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

Just a legal thought..... Since congress has the right to "legislate commerce" between the states and between any state and foreign nation, why wouldn't congress have the right to regulate gun sales?
Unless the gun was manufactured within the same state, wouldn't it fall under the Commerce clause of Article 1 section 8? If I were the President or Congress that is how I would stick more gun regulation into action. I doubt every firearm manufacturer has factories in every state? And knowing WM, I would even assume that many of the things they sell come from outside the nation?
The Articles in the Constitution seem to take pre-eminence over the amendments in law cases.

IIRC, Texas has been looking into this. Again based on my memory, there's a firearms maker who wants to make a weapon which will ONLY be sold in TX. Because of the fact they are not going to sell it out of the state there is no interstate commerce therefore the feds have no dog in the fight.

mekasmom · #23 01/11/13, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

No, they can NOT do it "legally" BECAUSE of the 2nd Amendment

Unfortunately, the articles of the Constitution have more weight than the Amendments. What is it they call it? hierarchy or something? They have had cases on issues similar weighing articles vs amendments. That's why the commerce clause overweighs the 10th too.

simi-steading · #24 01/11/13, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvalidID

There are ways around this as well. For example, small shops in each state making receivers and magazines. The rest of the 'gun' is simply considered parts, only the receiver is the 'firearm' after all.

Or, people can make their own receivers. AK receivers for example are quite simple to make at home.

There's some problems with this idea...

First off, unless you own a machine shop and have the skills to run the tools, a receiver isn't easy to make..

Secondly, if you make a receiver, then you are manufacturing a firearm. Unless you have a FFL to build guns, you're committing a class B Felony..

You can get your hands on 80% AR receivers and complete them.. Be warned though... if you complete one, it has to be for yourself.. not for resale..

InvalidID · #25 01/11/13, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simi-steading

There's some problems with this idea...

First off, unless you own a machine shop and have the skills to run the tools, a receiver isn't easy to make..

Secondly, if you make a receiver, then you are manufacturing a firearm. Unless you have a FFL to build guns, you're committing a class B Felony..

You can get your hands on 80% AR receivers and complete them.. Be warned though... if you complete one, it has to be for yourself.. not for resale..

To make a receiver for an AK doesn't really require a machine shop. There are DIY jig designs on the web free for everyone, they aren't hard to make. It's just bending a piece of sheet metal and drilling some holes, seriously. That's why they are so popular around the world today. You can even get a pattern to show you where to drill the holes.

If you can buy an 80% AR receiver and finish it, for yourself, and it's legal.... Kinda the same with an AK receiver you made for yourself isn't it? So long as it's for yourself and not for sale it's legal and you don't need any special stamp or license. (Federally, I dunno from all the state laws)

And that's what we're talking about. You can build any gun that's legal to own for yourself legally without a license or special stamp, but you can't build it with the intent to sell it. Commerce Clause laws would only come into effect if you transported it out of the state you built it in, or sold it to someone who transported it out of state.

And you can even sell a gun you built for yourself, but you have to stamp it with all your information so you can be easily tracked down. You just can't build a bunch of em, or build em with the intent to sell.

simi-steading · #26 01/11/13, 01:52 PM

OK, yes, you can bend your own receiver, but you also better know your 922R rules before you start adding too many parts to it, especially if you are using imported parts..

wannabechef · #27 01/11/13, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvalidID

To make a receiver for an AK doesn't really require a machine shop. There are DIY jig designs on the web free for everyone, they aren't hard to make. It's just bending a piece of sheet metal and drilling some holes, seriously. That's why they are so popular around the world today. You can even get a pattern to show you where to drill the holes.

If you can buy an 80% AR receiver and finish it, for yourself, and it's legal.... Kinda the same with an AK receiver you made for yourself isn't it? So long as it's for yourself and not for sale it's legal and you don't need any special stamp or license. (Federally, I dunno from all the state laws)

And that's what we're talking about. You can build any gun that's legal to own for yourself legally without a license or special stamp, but you can't build it with the intent to sell it. Commerce Clause laws would only come into effect if you transported it out of the state you built it in, or sold it to someone who transported it out of state.

And you can even sell a gun you built for yourself, but you have to stamp it with all your information so you can be easily tracked down. You just can't build a bunch of em, or build em with the intent to sell.

Not sure this is correct information? Can I build a SBR from my AR? According to the ATF a $200 tax stamp is required.

simi-steading · #28 01/11/13, 02:15 PM

SBR's are a different game.. .Now you could build a SBP (pistol....) I'd read up real heavily on that though before you do..

In some places the laws are kind of confusing, and I know they do that for a reason... Use it against you when the idea hits them...

InvalidID · #29 01/11/13, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simi-steading

OK, yes, you can bend your own receiver, but you also better know your 922R rules before you start adding too many parts to it, especially if you are using imported parts..

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabechef

Not sure this is correct information? Can I build a SBR from my AR? According to the ATF a $200 tax stamp is required.

Again, you can only build what's already legal to own. If it would require a stamp to BUY it, it requires a stamp to BUILD it.

Forerunner · #30 01/11/13, 02:27 PM

I drove by the little road headed west into Freedom, Wyoming, once, on my way to Jackson.

I wish I would have taken that left and toured the home of the .454 Casull.