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blooba 01/06/13 06:57 PM

Are we really economically "recovering"?
 
‎60 Facts That Prove The American Middle Class is Being Wiped Out

Michael Snyder
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/01/...an-middle.html


#1 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the middle class is taking home a smaller share of the overall income pie than has ever been recorded before.

#2 As the middle class shrinks, more Americans than ever have been forced to become dependent on the federal government. Federal spending on welfare programs has reached nearly a trillion dollars a year, and that does not even count Social Security or Medicare. Welfare spending is now 16 times larger than when the "war on poverty" began.

#3 Median household income in the U.S. has fallen for four consecutive years. Overall, it has declined by over $4,000 during that time span.

#4 The U.S. economy continues to trade good paying jobs for low paying jobs. 60 percent of the jobs lost during the last recession were mid-wage jobs, but 58 percent of the jobs created since then have been low wage jobs.

#5 The number of Americans living in poverty has increased by more than 15 million since the turn of the century.

#6 The number of Americans on food stamps has grown from 17 million in the year 2000 to more than 47 million today.

#7 Back in the 1970s, about one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Today, about one out of every 6.5 Americans is on food stamps.

#8 According to the Pew Research Center, 61 percent of all American households were "middle class" back in 1971. Today, that figure has fallen to 51 percent.

#9 In the United States today, 35 percent of all households live on $35,000 or less each year.

#10 One recent survey discovered that 85 percent of all middle class Americans believe that it is harder to maintain a middle class standard of living today than it was 10 years ago.

#11 62 percent of all middle class Americans say that they have had to reduce household spending over the past year.

#12 According to one survey, 77 percent of all Americans are now living paycheck to paycheck at least part of the time.

#13 In 1989, the debt to income ratio of the average American family was about 58 percent. Today it is up to 154 percent.

#14 Total U.S. household debt grew from just 1.4 trillion dollars in 1980 to a whopping 13.7 trillion dollars in 2007. This played a huge role in the financial crisis of 2008, and the problem has still not been solved.

#15 While debt loads for middle class families are going up, the net worth of those same families is going down. According to the Federal Reserve, the median net worth of families in the United States declined "from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010".

#16 The percentage of working age Americans with a job has been below 59 percent for 40 months in a row.

#17 Today there are about 3.25 million Americans that say that they want a job but that have not searched for a job in more than a year because they believe that it is so hopeless.

#18 When you total up all working age Americans that do not have a job in America today, it comes to more than 100 million.

#19 The unemployment rate for African-Americans rose dramatically from 13.2 percent in November to 14.0 percent in December.

#20 The unemployment rate for Americans in the 18 to 29 year-old age bracket is 11.5 percent overall. For African-Americans in that age group, the unemployment rate is now up to 22.1 percent. Millions of young people believe that the system has totally failed them.

#21 Families that have a head of household under the age of 30 have a poverty rate of 37 percent.
#22 Last year, an astounding 53 percent of all U.S. college graduates under the age of 25 were either unemployed or underemployed.

#23 Today, approximately 25 million American adults are living with their parents.

#24 According to the Tax Policy Center, the recent fiscal cliff deal will raise taxes more for those making between $30,000 and $200,000 a year than it will for those making between $200,000 and $500,000 a year.

#25 According to a Gallup survey, only 60 percent of all Americans say that they have enough money to live comfortably.

#26 One recent survey found that 63 percent of all Americans believe that the U.S. economic model is broken.

#27 Each year, the average American must work 107 days just to make enough money to pay local, state and federal taxes.

#28 Consumer debt in America has risen by a whopping 1700 percent since 1971.

#29 There are now 20.2 million Americans that spend more than half of their incomes on housing. That represents a 46 percent increase from 2001.

#30 The average American household spent approximately $4,155 on gasoline during 2011, and electricity bills in the U.S. have risen faster than the overall rate of inflation for five years in a row.

#31 According to USA Today, many Americans have actually seen their water bills triple over the past 12 years.

#32 Health insurance costs have risen by 23 percent since Barack Obama became president. According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted for just 9.5% of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account for approximately 16.3%.

#33 In 1999, 64.1 percent of all Americans were covered by employment-based health insurance. Today, only 55.1 percent are covered by employment-based health insurance.

#34 According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, 46 percent of all American workers have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and 29 percent of all American workers have less than $1,000 saved for retirement.

#35 The United States has lost an average of approximately 50,000 manufacturing jobs a month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001.

#36 The United States has lost more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities since 2001.

#37 According to the Economic Policy Institute, America is losing half a million jobs to China every single year.

#38 In 2000, there were more than 17 million Americans working in manufacturing, but now there are less than 12 million.

#39 Back in 1950, more than 80 percent of all men in the United States had jobs. Today, less than 65 percent of all men in the United States have jobs.

#40 Since 2000, U.S. multinational corporations have eliminated 2.9 million jobs in the United States and have added 2.4 million jobs overseas.

#41 According to Professor Alan Blinder of Princeton University, 40 million more U.S. jobs could be sent offshore over the next two decades if current trends continue.

#42 According to one study, between 1969 and 2009 the median wages earned by American men between the ages of 30 and 50 declined by 27 percent after you account for inflation.

#43 At this point, one out of every four American workers has a job that pays $10 an hour or less. If that sounds like a high figure, that is because it is. Today, the United States actually has a higher percentage of workers doing low wage work than any other major industrialized nation does.

#44 According to the Pew Research Center, only 23 percent of all American workers believe that they have enough money to get them through retirement.

#45 According to the Economic Policy Institute, the wealthiest one percent of all Americans households on average have 288 times the amount of wealth that the average middle class American family does.

#46 In the United States today, the wealthiest one percent of all Americans have a greater net worth than the bottom 90 percent combined.

#47 According to Forbes, the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined.

#48 The six heirs of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton have a net worth that is roughly equal to the bottom 30 percent of all Americans combined.

#49 At this point, the poorest 50 percent of all Americans collectively own just 2.5% of all the wealth in the United States.

#50 The United States now ranks 93rd in the world in income inequality.

#51 The average CEO now makes approximately 350 times as much as the average American worker makes.

#52 Corporate profits as a percentage of GDP are at an all-time high. Meanwhile, wages as a percentage of GDP are near an all-time low.

#53 Today, 40 percent of all Americans have $500 or less in savings.

#54 One recent survey found that 28 percent of all Americans do not have a single penny saved for emergencies.

#55 Shockingly, at this point 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be "low income" or are living in poverty.

#56 According to one calculation, the number of Americans on food stamps now exceeds the combined populations of "Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming."

#57 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, an all-time record 49 percent of all Americans live in a home where at least one person receives financial assistance from the federal government. Back in 1983, that number was less than 30 percent.

#58 According to U.S. Census data, 57 percent of all American children live in a home that is either considered to be "poor" or "low income".

#59 For the first time ever, more than a million public school students in the United States are homeless.

#60 According to a stunning new Gallup survey, 65 percent of all Americans believe that 2013 will be a year of "economic difficulty".

poppy 01/06/13 07:14 PM

"#57 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, an all-time record 49 percent of all Americans live in a home where at least one person receives financial assistance from the federal government. Back in 1983, that number was less than 30 percent."

That one alone completely explains why Obama got elected. Obama has been a master at getting people addicted to handouts and he knows they will not give them up. The addiction is stronger than Cocaine's. He knows full well they will choose raising taxes over giving up freebies for themselves or family members and raising taxes is his goal. The country is doomed.

poppy 01/06/13 07:23 PM

As to your question, no. We are not recovering. We are going downhill. Government is manipulating everything from interest rates to inflation numbers to create an illusion of progress but the facts you posted reveal the lie. We are in permanent decline. The Fed prints boatloads of money from thin air, much of which goes to the big banks and ends up in the stock market. That props up prices and the market is used as a sign that the economy is good. When it all unwinds (and it will), it won't be pretty. Prep and pray.

plowjockey 01/06/13 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy (Post 6368871)
"#57 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, an all-time record 49 percent of all Americans live in a home where at least one person receives financial assistance from the federal government. Back in 1983, that number was less than 30 percent."

That one alone completely explains why Obama got elected. Obama has been a master at getting people addicted to handouts and he knows they will not give them up. The addiction is stronger than Cocaine's. He knows full well they will choose raising taxes over giving up freebies for themselves or family members and raising taxes is his goal. The country is doomed.


The farmers who get subsidy payments, must have voted for Obama also, since they are also, addicted to those "handouts", just like the poor folks.:pound:

HDRider 01/06/13 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey (Post 6368906)
The farmers who get subsidy payments, must have voted for Obama also, since they are also, addicted to those "handouts", just like the poor folks.:pound:

The United States currently pays around $20 billion per year to farmers in direct subsidies as "farm income stabilization.

Recipients of Total USDA Subsidies in the United States totaled $277,292,000,000 from 1995-2011.

1 Riceland Foods Inc -$554,343,039
2 Producers Rice Mill Inc - $314,028,012
3 Farmers Rice Coop -$146,174,314
4 Dnrc Trust Land Management - $52,412,501
5 Harvest States Cooperatives - $49,489,434
6 Ducks Unlimited - $44,935,815
7 Tyler Farms - $37,009,744
8 Sd Building Authority - $31,110,468
9 Pilgrim's Pride Corporation -$26,461,206
10 Bureau Of Indian Affairs - $26,095,948

and so on
See:
http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?f...progcode=total

poppy 01/06/13 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey (Post 6368906)
The farmers who get subsidy payments, must have voted for Obama also, since they are also, addicted to those "handouts", just like the poor folks.:pound:

Try to cut their subsidies and watch them scream. Government freebies come in many forms. Subsidies are just another form of the same thing. It's like raising a fee and saying it is okay because it isn't a tax. It sometimes makes sense to subsidize something. If it will increase production of something you want and benefit you financially in the future, then it makes sense. You generally get more of anything you subsidize and less of anything you tax. According to that, Obama wants more poor people and less successful ones.

MO_cows 01/06/13 08:19 PM

I think a lot of those people who are on public assistance would much rather have their good paying job back that they used to have, and have their house be worth what it was in 2007. Those statistics don't just represent a bunch of moochers. They are a reflection of the ones who are falling out of the middle class.

plowjockey 01/06/13 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows (Post 6369028)
I think a lot of those people who are on public assistance would much rather have their good paying job back that they used to have, and have their house be worth what it was in 2007. Those statistics don't just represent a bunch of moochers. They are a reflection of the ones who are falling out of the middle class.

Good point.

$88 million worth of food stamps, was spent in Military Commissaries - in 2011. It is assumed, that these folks are not considered "moochers", but are forced to rely on Government "handouts", regardless.

poppy 01/06/13 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows (Post 6369028)
I think a lot of those people who are on public assistance would much rather have their good paying job back that they used to have, and have their house be worth what it was in 2007. Those statistics don't just represent a bunch of moochers. They are a reflection of the ones who are falling out of the middle class.

Some are as you say but most are fine with the freebies. They are very addicting. You would be surprised how easy it is, even for someone with a good work ethic, to get used to relying on government to pay their way. I've seen it happen to several people. They soon learn they can get along without all the toys and trappings of success and become content with less in exchange for more free time. As long as your basic needs are met, that becomes good enough for most. Who can blame them? Why go out at daylight in the cold and snow to go to a job you don't really like for $600 a week when you can sleep late as you want and still have plenty to eat and a roof over your head?

poppy 01/06/13 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey (Post 6369057)
Good point.

$88 million worth of food stamps, was spent in Military Commissaries - in 2011. It is assumed, that these folks are not considered "moochers", but are forced to rely on Government "handouts", regardless.

Been in a commissary lately? Probably 75% of the shoppers in our nearest one are not active duty. Yes, some active duty folks do get food stamps but most of the people we see in ours are retirees and reserve ( NG, etc.) that shop there for the prices. Lots of reserve types out of work now.

wwubben 01/06/13 09:39 PM

Things are improving around here.We are nearly back to normal.We never were as bad off as most of the country.

willow_girl 01/06/13 09:53 PM

Not all of this is the government's fault. It's partly due to changes in the economy ... for instance, the loss of union jobs that boosted many low-skilled workers into the middle class.

My father, for instance, had a high school education and spent his career working as a custodian, but because he had a union job, he earned an income sufficient to own a car and home, and support a stay-at-home wife and child. He had health insurance and retired with a pension sufficient to support him in the style to which he had become accustomed.

Nowadays, he'd probably make about $9 an hour, and be hard-pressed to support himself, let alone a family. Health insurance and retirement probably would be out of the question.

In the early 1950s, when my parents married, more than a third of Americans worked union jobs. In 2011, fewer than 11 percent did. Perhaps coincidentally, corporate profits hit an all-time high in 2010.

The money's still out there; it's just going into fewer pockets these days.

poppy 01/06/13 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl (Post 6369245)
Not all of this is the government's fault. It's partly due to changes in the economy ... for instance, the loss of union jobs that boosted many low-skilled workers into the middle class.

My father, for instance, had a high school education and spent his career working as a custodian, but because he had a union job, he earned an income sufficient to own a car and home, and support a stay-at-home wife and child. He had health insurance and retired with a pension sufficient to support him in the style to which he had become accustomed.

Nowadays, he'd probably make about $9 an hour, and be hard-pressed to support himself, let alone a family. Health insurance and retirement probably would be out of the question.

In the early 1950s, when my parents married, more than a third of Americans worked union jobs. In 2011, fewer than 11 percent did. Perhaps coincidentally, corporate profits hit an all-time high in 2010.

The money's still out there; it's just going into fewer pockets these days.

How many free trade agreements did we have in 1950? Of course government is responsible for most of it. Ross Perot tried to warn us. Yea, there is money out there but it is worth a lot less than it was in 1950. Who is responsible for that? Government. Take someone making a million dollars a year. How much is that person earning in 1950 dollars? I earned $100 a week in 1968 when we married and had our first child and we lived fine. Payed a house payment, ate good, and payed our health insurance. Inflation has been killing us for decades and will get worse with all this borrowing. I seldom go to the grocery store but went with my wife today. A 3 pound chuck roast was over $13.00. Heck, we only spent $15.00 a week for food in 1968. You can thank government for these changes and those to come.

Trixie 01/06/13 11:16 PM

I agree with most all the posts.

The parties kinda take turns - Republican then Democrat then Republican - with some exceptions. Every time a Democrat gets elected, it is said he was elected by the welfare vote. Now where are they when Republicans are elected?

Everytime a Republican is elected, he is elected by rich white folks, or some say sensible hard working conservative people. Where are they when a Democrat gets elected?

Just wondering --

poppy 01/06/13 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trixie (Post 6369384)
I agree with most all the posts.

The parties kinda take turns - Republican then Democrat then Republican - with some exceptions. Every time a Democrat gets elected, it is said he was elected by the welfare vote. Now where are they when Republicans are elected?

Everytime a Republican is elected, he is elected by rich white folks, or some say sensible hard working conservative people. Where are they when a Democrat gets elected?

Just wondering --

People don't stay in either the rich or poor group. Most people move up and down the economic scale throughout their lives. When the majority feel those in power are harming them financially, they vote for the other guy. Unfortunately we are at the point that the majority now believe cutting unsustainable spending will harm them financially by cutting their freebies. They go by several names. Liberal, progressive, communist, socialist, freeloaders, bums, deadbeats, etc.

NamasteMama 01/06/13 11:46 PM

The average person in 1950 made 2992$ now days you would have to make $92,752 to equal that buying power of that income. I don't know many people making that much money or even half that.

Trixie 01/06/13 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy (Post 6369407)
People don't stay in either the rich or poor group. Most people move up and down the economic scale throughout their lives. When the majority feel those in power are harming them financially, they vote for the other guy. Unfortunately we are at the point that the majority now believe cutting unsustainable spending will harm them financially by cutting their freebies. They go by several names. Liberal, progressive, communist, socialist, freeloaders, bums, deadbeats, etc.

So do enough move up and down the ladder to change the election? But that would suppose they must move down during a Republican administration - so they vote democrat. Things get good, so they vote Republican. I'm really joking, but it does puzzle me that it seems it's more of a 'taking turns' with the parties than anything else.

Of course, we have others who don't want any cuts - to their own goodies - just other people's goodies.
They go by the name of agri business, corporations, foreign despots, people who want home loans, non profits, college loans, business loans, etc.

where I want to 01/07/13 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey (Post 6369057)
Good point.

$88 million worth of food stamps, was spent in Military Commissaries - in 2011. It is assumed, that these folks are not considered "moochers", but are forced to rely on Government "handouts", regardless.

A lot of food stamps do not count income from a number of military subsidies to determine eligibility. Things like housing (allowance or actual), health care subsidies, extra pays, insurances,etc are ignored so that a military family can be eligible for food stamps while an non-military family would be inelegible.

poppy 01/07/13 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trixie (Post 6369428)
So do enough move up and down the ladder to change the election? But that would suppose they must move down during a Republican administration - so they vote democrat. Things get good, so they vote Republican. I'm really joking, but it does puzzle me that it seems it's more of a 'taking turns' with the parties than anything else.

Of course, we have others who don't want any cuts - to their own goodies - just other people's goodies.
They go by the name of agri business, corporations, foreign despots, people who want home loans, non profits, college loans, business loans, etc.

It doesn't take many to change an election. IIRC, Obama only won last election by 4%.

poppy 01/07/13 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwubben (Post 6369217)
Things are improving around here.We are nearly back to normal.We never were as bad off as most of the country.

You've fallen for the illusion. You are nowhere near what sane people would call normal. Look at the stats and reality. How much debt is hanging over your head thanks to the Fed? It the amount growing or shrinking? How much have your groceries gone up in the last year? Does your money buy what it did last year?

willow_girl 01/07/13 06:34 AM

Quote:

How many free trade agreements did we have in 1950?
Point taken. Perhaps I should have said that recent government policy didn't cause this problem ... actually, we've been headed in this direction for quite awhile; there was just so much money sloshing around in America that it's taken awhile for outsourcing and offshoring to catch up with us.

blooba 01/07/13 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwubben (Post 6369217)
Things are improving around here.We are nearly back to normal.We never were as bad off as most of the country.

I'm not talking "back to normal" to 1990's standards. I'm talking this country's timeline a whole.

Ever since we created this country our living standards increased with the Depression as a "small" hiccup, compared to whats going on now. The productivity of U.S. workers rose 96 percent since 1945, and average hourly compensation rises in tandem—94 percent from 1945 to 1973. In the next three decades, from 1973 to 2011, worker productivity rises another 80 percent but hourly compensation rises only 10 percent.

This has ALOT to do with politics BUT it is not a Democrat or Republican problem. This is OUR problem. If we want to fix this problem we need to stand up for ourselves and stop being pushed over. Make your voices heard. Not only to our politicians but to everyday people(Work,coffee shop,ect.).

I work at a retail outlet in the middle of a welfare ridden city. When I am "told" to do someone else's job because they are slacking off I tell them "No" When they say, "Oh it will only take 5 mins to do, just do it" I say "Well then instead of texting on their phone for 10 minutes they shoulda gotten it done."

When pay cuts come down from corporate level I make a stink about it. Yes it may only be a dollar a week or whatever BUT that is MY dollar. Add it up to 20,000 employees and its a nice chunk of change. Where everyone else say "Be lucky you have a job and deal with it" If i see an area where they are trying to "screw over the workers" I refuse to participate. (Mandatory unpaid training ,etc)

I may be considered a complainer,whiner,ect and I know it but I work my butt off and I am not easily pushed around and I make it known. They wonder at work why I don't get fired but I do my job and I do it as good if not better than most people in the company.

Why let people take the things you have worked so hard to earn? I'm not saying be like me and get yourself fired from your job or be a complete jerk. But I have fun with it.

I'm a smoker and I love the people who come up to me and ask, "Can I get a cigarette?" My response is,"Can I get a dollar?" When I goto the cigarette store they don't just hand them out for free.

Why do people say "Well at least my money is going to feeding the poor starving child."? Is that YOUR poor starving child? NO, its someone else's who needs to get off their butt and feed their own child. But why would they if someone else is willing to feed them.

This country is so used to being happy with the way things are and they don't realize what is being taken away.

Just like this recent "fiscal cliff" dealings. Everyone is like "Whew, glad they only raised the taxes on the rich and let the tax cuts expire. I'll be good since I'm not rich" WAKE UP YOU DUMMIES!!!! YOUR TAXES JUST WENT UP!!!!

MushCreek 01/07/13 07:01 AM

We are heading back to the conditions of the turn of the century (1900), when there were a handful of very wealthy, with the rest of the populace rather poor. There was no 'middle class' to speak of. Probably the biggest single contributor today is offshore manufacturing. The people at the top of the food chain make tons of money off of this, but the middle income jobs are gone, so everyone else is working at low-paying service industry jobs. Eventually, the tax base will collapse, and the Great American Experiment will be over. I believe we are actually past the tipping point, and just running on inertia as the government frantically tries to kick the can a little further down the road.

As in all human endeavors, it is brought about by greed. The wealthy in 1900 ran everything because they were greedy. Unions emerged, bringing a better life to most Americans, but once again, they became greedy, and American goods became unaffordable. This led companies to seek cheaper labor overseas, driven by- you guessed it- greed. Thanks to all of the entitlement programs gradually added over the years, the government is going (actually, is already far beyond) broke. Why have entitlement programs boomed? Greed. Folks getting hand-outs tend to vote for elected officials who support those hand-outs. Greed, greed, greed.

There are indications that the economy is getting better, but if you look at the total picture, it is very dark indeed.

wwubben 01/07/13 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy (Post 6369613)
You've fallen for the illusion. You are nowhere near what sane people would call normal. Look at the stats and reality. How much debt is hanging over your head thanks to the Fed? It the amount growing or shrinking? How much have your groceries gone up in the last year? Does your money buy what it did last year?

I am getting along fine for someone not considered sane.I am not falling for the sky is falling propaganda.I have confidence that the american people will get things under control.

blooba 01/07/13 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwubben (Post 6369677)
I am getting along fine for someone not considered sane.I am not falling for the sky is falling propaganda.I have confidence that the american people will get things under control.

Ok, well if your doing so good you can pay your share of the national debt now then. I expect you to be mailing the IRS your check now.


National Debt:
How many people are in your household?

1= $52,341.30
2= $104,682.60
3= $157,023.90
4= $209,365.20

Think you had your debt paid off? Think again!!!!

Edited to add: And since 51% of households are not paying taxes, the amount you owe is double what is listed!!!

Trixie 01/07/13 09:07 AM

I was reading the list and trying to make sense of it.

Some of it certainly points out the fact we are reaching a great divide between incomes in this country.

Certainly actions of our government has created a lot of this.

There is a reason the Wal Mart heirs are so wealthy. Far too many Americans are thrilled with being able to buy baskets full of shiny, cheap geegaws.

That is also party the reason jobs have gone offshore, and part of the reason for so much consumer debt.

I put a lot of the blame on government spending - and government actions.
Some of the blame, we must accept ourselves.

I am a little skeptical of the 1 M homeless children. I find that unbelievable.
I certainly hope and pray it isn't true. I'm wondering what they consider 'homeless'?

7thswan 01/07/13 09:13 AM

Because of Economics, the middle class of US are the most powerful group of people in the world-we are under attack.

Hollowdweller 01/07/13 09:50 AM

Passing the Taft Hartley act was the beginning of the end of the middle class.

The next nail in the coffin was when Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union.

The next nail was when Clinton and contress passed NAFTA, but really basically ALL free trade agreements hurt US workers except farming.

This is why republicans should be FOR unions and against free trade.

My brother once voted for Jesse Jackson and then Pat Buchanon because both were economic populists.

Companies can merge and corner the market and set their own prices. Workers have to use their labor as a bargaining chip. You should NEVER cross a picket line.

As the middle class has fallen in wages and the rich have got richer and the money that used to go to the workers wages go to CEO pay and stockholder dividends.

Republicans don't like gov't giveaways yet as the income inequality gets higher then people demand more from the government. Where if we had strong unions then there would be no need for the earned income tax credit, food stamps for people who work or insurance subsidies for children. People would be able to collectively bargain and get these things from their employers.

where I want to 01/08/13 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller (Post 6370011)
Where if we had strong unions then there would be no need for the earned income tax credit, food stamps for people who work or insurance subsidies for children. People would be able to collectively bargain and get these things from their employers.

In the 1970s and 1980s the auto unions were as strong as unions could be. A starting janitor as an auto plant made wages that would be impressive in today's economy.
Of course, that lead to very expensive cars and poor, complaisant quality. And the auto industry lost customers with the speed of a meteor falling to earth as soon as competition from Japan was allowed.

And air traffic controllers still have a pretty hefty payscale and good benefits by today's standard.

The trouble with assigning virtue to an entity whose purpose is material gain is not resonable, whether union or employer.

Now if you wanted to say the tension created by a better balanced share of power betweent unions and employers is good because it insures that neither will be able to grab all the goodies, then that is closer to the truth.

But unchecked unions are as damaging to the average man as unchecked employers.

plowjockey 01/08/13 02:00 PM

Tough call.

People are supposedly poorer, yet are still willing to shell out an average, of nearly $1800, for a ticket to the Alabama/Notre Dame final game.

Some parking is $500.

Maybe these folks are the 1%.

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws....07bamaedit.jpg


http://annistonstar.com/view/full_st...e=home_opinion

Ozarks Tom 01/08/13 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MushCreek (Post 6369646)
We are heading back to the conditions of the turn of the century (1900), when there were a handful of very wealthy, with the rest of the populace rather poor. There was no 'middle class' to speak of. Probably the biggest single contributor today is offshore manufacturing. The people at the top of the food chain make tons of money off of this, but the middle income jobs are gone, so everyone else is working at low-paying service industry jobs. Eventually, the tax base will collapse, and the Great American Experiment will be over. I believe we are actually past the tipping point, and just running on inertia as the government frantically tries to kick the can a little further down the road.

As in all human endeavors, it is brought about by greed. The wealthy in 1900 ran everything because they were greedy. Unions emerged, bringing a better life to most Americans, but once again, they became greedy, and American goods became unaffordable. This led companies to seek cheaper labor overseas, driven by- you guessed it- greed. Thanks to all of the entitlement programs gradually added over the years, the government is going (actually, is already far beyond) broke. Why have entitlement programs boomed? Greed. Folks getting hand-outs tend to vote for elected officials who support those hand-outs. Greed, greed, greed.

There are indications that the economy is getting better, but if you look at the total picture, it is very dark indeed.

I agree with everything you stated, but, I would substitute the words "self interest" in place of "greed". Greed sounds downright sinful. Self interest is something we all have innately, just like joy and sadness. It's part of human nature, and although there are some truly (rarely) altruistic individuals, the actions described in your post are pretty much what we should expect.

blooba 01/08/13 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to (Post 6372347)
In the 1970s and 1980s the auto unions were as strong as unions could be. A starting janitor as an auto plant made wages that would be impressive in today's economy.
Of course, that lead to very expensive cars and poor, complaisant quality. And the auto industry lost customers with the speed of a meteor falling to earth as soon as competition from Japan was allowed.

^ Not that it was allowed, allowing them in with minimum tariff fees and lowering safety standards.

Quote:

The automobile industry in China is still heavily protected behind a “tariff wall” even though this wall has come down significantly since China’s entry into the WTO. Cars imported to China face a tariff duty of at least 25 percent. In comparison, American duties on cars imported into the US are only 5 percent. Taking into account the 17 percent of VAT and other levies, imported cars and foreign-brand cars produced in China are substantially more expensive than the same type of cars in the United States. A new Cadillac SLS made in China will set a Chinese household back between $71,000 and $110,000, without the anti-dumping duty. A better performing Cadillac STS, on the other hand, costs an American household between $47,000 and $56,000.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/baizhuch...e-tariff-wall/

Wonder why China is a manufacturing hub of the world? Here's your answer

poppy 01/08/13 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey (Post 6372748)
Tough call.

People are supposedly poorer, yet are still willing to shell out an average, of nearly $1800, for a ticket to the Alabama/Notre Dame final game.

Some parking is $500.

Maybe these folks are the 1%.

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws....07bamaedit.jpg


http://annistonstar.com/view/full_st...e=home_opinion

Some folks did well back in the great depression too. We're seeing another round of small businesses closing here. The middle class is suffering a slow death by a thousand cuts it seems. I don't personally know anyone who will not tell you they have had to cut back to get by. The alternative of finding a better job or even a part time is a very rare option here.

Trixie 01/08/13 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy (Post 6373759)
Some folks did well back in the great depression too. We're seeing another round of small businesses closing here. The middle class is suffering a slow death by a thousand cuts it seems. I don't personally know anyone who will not tell you they have had to cut back to get by. The alternative of finding a better job or even a part time is a very rare option here.

I don't know that things are not worse, just that some don't know it.
I still see money wasted on basketsful of Chinese junk at Wal Mart, and I still see some people buying big new cars, and the roads are full of people driving.

Although, it's true, many fortunes were made during the depression.

bowdonkey 01/09/13 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows (Post 6369028)
I think a lot of those people who are on public assistance would much rather have their good paying job back that they used to have, and have their house be worth what it was in 2007. Those statistics don't just represent a bunch of moochers. They are a reflection of the ones who are falling out of the middle class.

EXACTLY. There has been a concerted effort to undermine the middle class here. Unfair trade deals, off shoring manufacturing jobs, union busting. Pick your poison, it all leads to the same place. I think about everything has been done to destroy the blue collar worker. Throw in overbearing regs, higher taxes and inflation and there you have it. We are reaping what we sow or maybe it's more correct to say what we voter.

bowdonkey 01/09/13 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy (Post 6369407)
People don't stay in either the rich or poor group. Most people move up and down the economic scale throughout their lives. When the majority feel those in power are harming them financially, they vote for the other guy. Unfortunately we are at the point that the majority now believe cutting unsustainable spending will harm them financially by cutting their freebies. They go by several names. Liberal, progressive, communist, socialist, freeloaders, bums, deadbeats, etc.

And Republicans!

jwal10 01/09/13 08:46 AM

As long as the leaders of this nation are leading the masses down the road of blame and the masses blame each other this country will never get back on track. There has to be a coming together of the people to make changes happen. There is no middle of the road. Look at congress and some people here. Far left and far right that think they are right and will never work together to make it right. We used to be a country of people, proud to be American, working TOGETHER to make this country even better. Not anymore, get what you can get and walk all over the rest to get it....James

bowdonkey 01/09/13 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trixie (Post 6369428)
So do enough move up and down the ladder to change the election? But that would suppose they must move down during a Republican administration - so they vote democrat. Things get good, so they vote Republican. I'm really joking, but it does puzzle me that it seems it's more of a 'taking turns' with the parties than anything else.

Of course, we have others who don't want any cuts - to their own goodies - just other people's goodies.
They go by the name of agri business, corporations, foreign despots, people who want home loans, non profits, college loans, business loans, etc.

And Republicans!

bowdonkey 01/09/13 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blooba (Post 6369703)
Ok, well if your doing so good you can pay your share of the national debt now then. I expect you to be mailing the IRS your check now.


National Debt:
How many people are in your household?

1= $52,341.30
2= $104,682.60
3= $157,023.90
4= $209,365.20

Think you had your debt paid off? Think again!!!!



Edited to add: And since 51% of households are not paying taxes, the amount you owe is double what is listed!!!

Wonderful, glad to see that someone else gets it. Now tell me, do you have any idea what the yearly interest on you and your families share of the debt is?

unregistered168043 01/09/13 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MushCreek (Post 6369646)
We are heading back to the conditions of the turn of the century (1900), when there were a handful of very wealthy, with the rest of the populace rather poor. There was no 'middle class' to speak of. Probably the biggest single contributor today is offshore manufacturing. The people at the top of the food chain make tons of money off of this, but the middle income jobs are gone, so everyone else is working at low-paying service industry jobs. Eventually, the tax base will collapse, and the Great American Experiment will be over. I believe we are actually past the tipping point, and just running on inertia as the government frantically tries to kick the can a little further down the road.

As in all human endeavors, it is brought about by greed. The wealthy in 1900 ran everything because they were greedy. Unions emerged, bringing a better life to most Americans, but once again, they became greedy, and American goods became unaffordable. This led companies to seek cheaper labor overseas, driven by- you guessed it- greed. Thanks to all of the entitlement programs gradually added over the years, the government is going (actually, is already far beyond) broke. Why have entitlement programs boomed? Greed. Folks getting hand-outs tend to vote for elected officials who support those hand-outs. Greed, greed, greed.

There are indications that the economy is getting better, but if you look at the total picture, it is very dark indeed.


Blaming greed for our current economic condition is like blaming gravity when a plane goes down. What you are calling 'greed' is the natural pursuit of personal interest. Without it our species would not survive, without it YOU would not survive too long.

Like it or not, the world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The baker, the blacksmith, and the carpenter do not produce their goods for YOUR benefit, they do so because it benefits them...personal interest or what you keep calling "greed".


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