Newspaper Publishes Gun Owners' Names and Addresses

Darren · #21 12/26/12, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrek

Saw on the news today that someone using the NY public access posted a google map of the editor and journalists of the publication names and addresses in response to the publication publishing the gun owners information.

Yep! Turn about is fair play. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=...m&source=embed

seedspreader · #22 12/26/12, 09:54 PM

So... my take:

1) Freedom of the press and all that jazz. I support it.
2) The ROOT CAUSE isn't that the Paper went all FOIA/Public Record, it's that there is a RECORD in the first place.

Remember when Gun rights activists used to be against Gun Registration because something like this could happen? Well, we willing participate because we were giddy that our government "allowed us" to do what is a God-given right. To carry a firearm and conceal it if we wish.

Incrementalism. If they can't get it one way, they get it the other way.

wannabechef · #23 12/27/12, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

So... my take:

1) Freedom of the press and all that jazz. I support it.
2) The ROOT CAUSE isn't that the Paper went all FOIA/Public Record, it's that there is a RECORD in the first place.

Remember when Gun rights activists used to be against Gun Registration because something like this could happen? Well, we willing participate because we were giddy that our government "allowed us" to do what is a God-given right. To carry a firearm and conceal it if we wish.

Incrementalism. If they can't get it one way, they get it the other way.

I hate the whole carry permit thing and I especially hate paying for a right that is guaranteed to me by the 2nd.

As soon as the left realizes that felons don't go to the courthouse for gun permits it will be good...but I don't see it ever happening.

beowoulf90 · #24 12/27/12, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

So... my take:

1) Freedom of the press and all that jazz. I support it.
2) The ROOT CAUSE isn't that the Paper went all FOIA/Public Record, it's that there is a RECORD in the first place.

Remember when Gun rights activists used to be against Gun Registration because something like this could happen? Well, we willing participate because we were giddy that our government "allowed us" to do what is a God-given right. To carry a firearm and conceal it if we wish.

Incrementalism. If they can't get it one way, they get it the other way.

I've been saying this for years.. I knew they would keep a list of those practicing their Rights and at some point use it against those law abiding citizens...

This is why I won't tolerate anymore lies about gun control for those who say well it only to keep them out of the hands of _______, pick a group...

Well they said they would never keep a list/registration, then they made people register, now they are trying to use that registration as an intimidation tool to make people fear the consequences of owning a firearm...

So I've had enough..

wannabechef · #25 12/27/12, 08:38 PM

Thank god there is no gun registration in any State in the US.

wannabechef · #26 12/27/12, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabechef

Thank god there is no gun registration in any State in the US.

I actually just checked on this after I wrote it, it appears a few states require registration. City of Chicago requires registration...seems to help with the gun crimes...NOT.

Trixie · #27 12/29/12, 01:34 AM

We are missing a lot of we mistakenly believe and try to convince others it is only the 'liberals' who want guns out of the hands of the people. That would be a very costly mistake. This is something far bigger than just liberal/conservative or Rep/Dem.

I believe Texas has a registration law - at least it did at one time.

beowoulf90 · #28 12/31/12, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trixie

We are missing a lot of we mistakenly believe and try to convince others it is only the 'liberals' who want guns out of the hands of the people. That would be a very costly mistake. This is something far bigger than just liberal/conservative or Rep/Dem.

I believe Texas has a registration law - at least it did at one time.

Handguns are registered in all 50 States, or at the least the (B)ATF requires that they have a list. The State may or may not keep a record.

Here in PA we are required to register every handgun transaction through a FFL holder. Meaning the ATF keeps a record, but the State isn't allowed to keep copies of that transaction (according to a judgement by the courts). But the courts have failed to enforce that judgement and the State police have kept a record, albeit illegal records...

Also any long arm sold by a gun shop will go through the ATF paper work. But isn't required if a long arm is sold by an individual..

As I said and it needs repeated.. ALL handguns need to go through a FFL to legally transfer ownership, there are a few exceptions which I won't try to explain here...

PistolPackinMom · #29 12/31/12, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Handguns are registered in all 50 States, or at the least the (B)ATF requires that they have a list. The State may or may not keep a record.

Here in PA we are required to register every handgun transaction through a FFL holder. Meaning the ATF keeps a record, but the State isn't allowed to keep copies of that transaction (according to a judgement by the courts). But the courts have failed to enforce that judgement and the State police have kept a record, albeit illegal records...

Also any long arm sold by a gun shop will go through the ATF paper work. But isn't required if a long arm is sold by an individual..

As I said and it needs repeated.. ALL handguns need to go through a FFL to legally transfer ownership, there are a few exceptions which I won't try to explain here...

Cite your sources.

beowoulf90 · #30 12/31/12, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PistolPackinMom

Cite your sources.

Experience, from when I held a FFL and having to deal with the ATF.. But each State laws do have some variances... Granted this was back in the 1980's, but I'm almost positive they didn't relax any of the laws as a general rule..

All I can say is check the ATF and the multitude of laws there... I don't have the time nor the inclination..

If I'm wrong about your State, then I'm wrong.. But when I bought handguns from other States they still had to go through a FFL in that State, before they could be sent to me.. Which means that, that State FFL holder had to do the paper work required by the ATF, just as I did when receiving the handguns...

seedspreader · #31 12/31/12, 10:41 AM

In Ohio, you can just buy a pistol from someone and never have to go to an FFL to transfer it.

I couldn't believe you had to in PA actually.

Nimrod · #32 12/31/12, 11:30 AM

In MN you can buy a handgun from a private seller, who doesn't have an FFL, without any background checks or permits if the transaction is face to face.

You have to go through FFLs, background checks, and handgun permits if the gun is sent through the mail or UPS.

beowoulf90 · #33 12/31/12, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

In Ohio, you can just buy a pistol from someone and never have to go to an FFL to transfer it.

I couldn't believe you had to in PA actually.

Then I would be wrong in my earlier statement!
I wonder why I had to have them sent to an FFL prior to me receiving them?

seedspreader · #34 12/31/12, 12:57 PM

I know if you do it through the net or mail (even in Ohio) you have to use an FFL. But face to face purchases are private interactions.

When I moved here I was amazed that you had to do it for handguns here... but PA is easier to get your CCW in. Weird all around.

PistolPackinMom · #35 12/31/12, 01:16 PM

@ Beowoulf

Private sales do not require an FFL.

As I am aware, it is not true that all states have registration. I believe that the majority do not, actually. What have you read that makes you think they do?

seedspreader · #36 12/31/12, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PistolPackinMom

@ Beowoulf

Private sales do not require an FFL.

As I am aware, it is not true that all states have registration. I believe that the majority do not, actually. What have you read that makes you think they do?

in PA private sales DO have to be run through an FFL.

beowoulf90 · #37 12/31/12, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PistolPackinMom

@ Beowoulf

Private sales do not require an FFL.

As I am aware, it is not true that all states have registration. I believe that the majority do not, actually. What have you read that makes you think they do?

If you take note.. I've already said I was wrong!.. seedspreader and others have pointed out that they don't have to go through an FFL in other States such as Ohio and MN..

As I said when I had my FFL and bought used guns from other States they had to go through an FFL in that State before they could be sent to me, even though I had an FFL.. I never did face to face out of the State..

bignugly · #38 12/31/12, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

in PA private sales DO have to be run through an FFL.

Only if you tell them.

beowoulf90 · #39 12/31/12, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignugly

Only if you tell them.

True, but then you would be in violation of the law.. Thus once you are caught, you would be a felon and unable to legally own any firearm in the State...

reluctantpatriot · #40 01/01/13, 03:09 AM

Missouri used to require a handgun purchase permit for each transaction, person-to-person and dealer facilitated, prior to purchase and was obtained from the county sheriff office where one lived. Now that requirement no longer exists. In Kansas, there is no such requirement. As for a registration database, my understanding is that until all 4473 forms are sent into the federal data center for storage, there is technically no government database. So long as the forms are retained by the licensed dealer, the only way for the government to know what was sold to who is to visit a dealer in person to obtain a copy of the information.

While the 4473 does contain more info than a sales receipt, either way, there would be a paper trail for law enforcement to follow. However, they are not registered in the sense that they can be accurately tracked at all times, unlike a registered motorvehicle.

As for what the newspaper in New York did, well, let us just say that their employees are likely not appreciating the attention they and their families are receiving at all times of the day and night. There is even the suggestion of obtaining other personal information, such as social security numbers, dates of birth, health care and criminal records and so forth for the employees so that it can also be released. I have to honestly say that I am conflicted about going that far. However, given what they did to law abiding handgun owners, I will say that they are reaping what they sowed.

Also, a clarification about the data the newspaper released. Only people with a handgun permit are listed. The map does not show long gun, rifle or shotgun, owners which do not require a permit. While a criminal would know where to find a handgun, they would not know which residences have long guns. It does not make the result proper in any sense, but I wanted to point out that detail.