We are nearing the End

Hollowdweller · #21 05/14/12, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

. Government jobs are a net drain on the economy. .

I'm sorry but we've lost 600,000 gov't jobs. We've cut taxes during Bush and Obama's term. We've increased defense spending even during this period of high deficits.

The facts on the ground do not support your position.

It's a sad state of affairs but we need to increase spending even though debt is high right now. It didn't have to be that way but the public and the Republicans continued to believe in Supply Side Economics even after it no longer worked.

gideonprime · #22 05/14/12, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

Simple question: Did the wars cost 16 trillion dollars? You sound like Gov. Brown in California. They had a 9 billion dollar deficit when he was elected and it is now 16 billion. As far as I know, Cali has started no wars. Now he is moaning that things are worse than he thought. Does he consider cutting spending? Only in vague terms which means he has no intention of meaningful cuts. Instead, he is proposing raising taxes.

Clearly we ned to reduce spending and increase revenue so all the Bush era tax cuts should be allowed to sunset. Millitary spending is off the charts and not making us much safer in anything but the short run (if even then) so we have lots of trimming we can do there.

As I already mentioned clearly some of the entilements (epsecially welfare) need to be reformed.

However, without the several billion we have borrowed and blown fighting two ME wars added to the problem big time.

Are you really denying that? Seriously?

poppy · #23 05/14/12, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller

In the US our big problem is our for profit health care system. Because it causes the cost of health care to be so high the gov't has to spend a lot in medicare where in other countries with universal health care it is less.

Social Security right now is not contributing to the defcit because the extra surplus has been invested in gov't bonds and used to fund the gov't.

The for profit healthcare system is not the problem. The problem is government meddling in it. Take Lasik eye surgery for example. Neither Medicare nor insurance will cover it because other less expensive options are available (glasses). When it first started, Lasik surgery cost an average of $5,000. Pretty steep for most people to pay out of pocket. What does it cost today under the for profit healthcare system ( no government meddling)? You can get it for around $500, a 90% drop in the cost, despite improvements in both surgery methods and equipment. That is the free market in action. Now let's look at government meddling. Suppose you need a surgery costing $5,000 but you are poor. A surgeon has compassion for your plight and would like to do your surgery for $500. What would happen? He would be fined and may lose his license to practice medicine for helping you out. Why? Because he charged you less than what Medicare would pay for the surgery and that is illegal.

poppy · #24 05/14/12, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideonprime

Clearly we ned to reduce spending and increase revenue so all the Bush era tax cuts should be allowed to sunset. Millitary spending is off the charts and not making us much safer in anything but the short run (if even then) so we have lots of trimming we can do there.

As I already mentioned clearly some of the entilements (epsecially welfare) need to be reformed.

However, without the several billion we have borrowed and blown fighting two ME wars added to the problem big time.

Are you really denying that? Seriously?

Even some dems realize raising taxes hurts the economy. Right now, gas prices are hurting the economy but raising taxes does the same thing. It makes no difference to the guy who has $25 less left over payday whether the money went for gas or taxes. All he knows is he has $100 less per month. That requires him to spend less on things like eating out or buying things, and that results in job cuts. Stop the Bush tax cuts and watch the economy tank.

gideonprime · #25 05/14/12, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

Even some dems realize raising taxes hurts the economy. Right now, gas prices are hurting the economy but raising taxes does the same thing. It makes no difference to the guy who has $25 less left over payday whether the money went for gas or taxes. All he knows is he has $100 less per month. That requires him to spend less on things like eating out or buying things, and that results in job cuts. Stop the Bush tax cuts and watch the economy tank.

Like ti did when Regan raised taxes . . .oh wait he grew the economy while raising taxes. . . Imagine that!

Your talking points are less than realistic. Way to tow that party line though. Must be getting tough though as you seem to be getting no traction.

poppy · #26 05/14/12, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideonprime

Like ti did when Regan raised taxes . . .oh wait he grew the economy while raising taxes. . . Imagine that!

Your talking points are less than realistic. Way to tow that party line though. Must be getting tough though as you seem to be getting no traction.

You have a very poor grasp of history. How many months of economic prosperity did the Bush tax cuts bring? Do you know it set a record of 52 months of job growth? Now, what sort of job growth has Obama's policy brought us? Well, there is the well over 200,000 jobs he created...no, wait, that is the number of people who lost their long term unemployment insurance yesterday. Don't worry though. Those 200,000 will be dropped from the unemployed category and as a result the unemployment rate may drop .1% this month and you can spin it into good news.

gideonprime · #27 05/14/12, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

You have a very poor grasp of history. How many months of economic prosperity did the Bush tax cuts bring? Do you know it set a record of 52 months of job growth? Now, what sort of job growth has Obama's policy brought us? Well, there is the well over 200,000 jobs he created...no, wait, that is the number of people who lost their long term unemployment insurance yesterday. Don't worry though. Those 200,000 will be dropped from the unemployed category and as a result the unemployment rate may drop .1% this month and you can spin it into good news.

False prosperity by playing numbers games with Real Estate and then sinking the whole economy.

Talk about poor grasp?

Oy.

poppy · #28 05/14/12, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideonprime

False prosperity by playing numbers games with Real Estate and then sinking the whole economy.

Talk about poor grasp?

Oy.

Yes, poor grasp. Bush warned of a problem with Fannie/Freddie making risky loans. You can find videos of him saying it on YouTube. The problem was Barney Frank and other dems insisting there was no problem. The housing crisis can be laid squarely at the dem's doorstep.

Sonshine · #29 05/14/12, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideonprime

Yeah cause the private sector did such a bang up job we needed to bail them out.

Actually if we had not bailed them out we would have been in better shape. Others would rise up and take their places if they fail, yet the government intervened, which just created a bigger mess than we already had.

gideonprime · #30 05/14/12, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

Yes, poor grasp. Bush warned of a problem with Fannie/Freddie making risky loans. You can find videos of him saying it on YouTube. The problem was Barney Frank and other dems insisting there was no problem. The housing crisis can be laid squarely at the dem's doorstep.

ROTFL!

Blind as well I see. Good for you! Tow that line. TOW IT!

Fannie and Freddie had very little to do with it in all reality especialy seeing as the minority borrowers who bought under those programs are only about 5% of the over all forclosure problem. I Assure you it was wealthy folks buying beachfront her in FL that flopped the market. Mcuh as you might wish it to be otherwise.

However, I have no wish to speak to the deaf nor draw pictures for the blind so lets just agree to disagree as we are getting no place with this back and forth.

I would suggest those who are interested do some research ad find out the truth for themselves.

Sonshine · #31 05/14/12, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideonprime

Clearly we ned to reduce spending and increase revenue so all the Bush era tax cuts should be allowed to sunset. Millitary spending is off the charts and not making us much safer in anything but the short run (if even then) so we have lots of trimming we can do there.

As I already mentioned clearly some of the entilements (epsecially welfare) need to be reformed.

However, without the several billion we have borrowed and blown fighting two ME wars added to the problem big time.

Are you really denying that? Seriously?

I see you fail to mention the wars that Obama got us involved in.

gideonprime · #32 05/14/12, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

Actually if we had not bailed them out we would have been in better shape. Others would rise up and take their places if they fail, yet the government intervened, which just created a bigger mess than we already had.

Agree 100%.

gideonprime · #33 05/14/12, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

I see you fail to mention the wars that Obama got us involved in.

Drop in the bucket compared to Iraq and Afgahnistan.

Sonshine · #34 05/14/12, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideonprime

Drop in the bucket compared to Iraq and Afgahnistan.

Maybe, but still cost money. He criticized Bush about the wars, yet here we are, 3 1/2 years later and still in Afghanistan.

gideonprime · #35 05/14/12, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

Maybe, but still cost money. He criticized Bush about the wars, yet here we are, 3 1/2 years later and still in Afghanistan.

Worse still there until 2014. ACK!

Oh I'm not defending O's handling of it either. Afghanistan is an empire killer. Always has been.

Though I personally feel we could do with a bit less empire here in the USA.

watcher · #36 05/14/12, 02:36 PM

Its been said before and needs to be said again. We don't have a tax income problem, we have a spending problem. As long as the government continues to use unconstitutional programs paid for by tax and borrowed dollars to buy votes we are going no where but DOWN.

plowjockey · #37 05/14/12, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

We've heard this before. What you may see in your immediate area is not what is happening across the country. The economy is flat at best. Most of the Euro countries are in recession, India is flat, and China has problems. There is no decent recovery anywhere in sight, except for maybe around your house. The world, as a whole, is broke and shuffling worthless paper around trying to keep the ponzi scheme going a little longer. People here and in other countries want their government freebies to continue but all that spending has bankrupted all the countries. The day of reckoning for us and everyone else is close. Greece has already reached it and it looks like Spain will be the next domino to fall. You and others pretend our 16 trillion dollar debt doesn't matter but you are about to face reality.

So what? Why is my "house", so special?

You need to do some real homework, verses towing the line. Fannie Mae reports foreclosures down and is turning a small profit, verses huge loses in past years. Not great news, but better news.

I's well aware that there are still many problems, most quite severe.

Is burying our face, in our hands and crying, because the end is near, the right answer?

How about we get with the program and makes thing better?

Many Americans - all over the country, are doing just that.

sevenmmm · #38 05/15/12, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watcher

Its been said before and needs to be said again. We don't have a tax income problem, we have a spending problem. As long as the government continues to use unconstitutional programs paid for by tax and borrowed dollars to buy votes we are going no where but DOWN.

Only those perched up off the ground are going down!

Lets see, how does that go? The bigger they are the harder they...

unregistered41671 · #39 05/15/12, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

So what? Why is my "house", so special?

You need to do some real homework, verses towing the line. Fannie Mae reports foreclosures down and is turning a small profit, verses huge loses in past years. Not great news, but better news.

I's well aware that there are still many problems, most quite severe.

Is burying our face, in our hands and crying, because the end is near, the right answer?

How about we get with the program and makes thing better?

Many Americans - all over the country, are doing just that.

PJ with all due respect, you need to get out more often.

Bearfootfarm · #40 05/15/12, 09:10 AM

Quote:

isn;t that what happened by cuting taxes and starting two wars?

We didn't START any wars at all.
bin Laden and Saddam did that