Where are our high mileage cars?

JeffreyD · #**141** 03/27/12, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

I should have explained that the "juice" indeed, came from a diesel generator and not from batteries, on a railroad locomotive.

My point was, there there is power in electric motors.

Obviously, they will have to be lighter, smaller, use less electrical power and employ advanced transmissions, to be effective, but why can't the be.

The Chevy Volt is powered with a 150HP electric motor. Not a ripper, yet, but equivilent horsepower to a average 4 clyinder gas engine.

My farmer friend asked me if they were going to make battery powered farm tractors.

Maybe someday.

Yes there is some power, but it's the torque that electric motors make that impressive! I've driven some pretty big reach back turret lifts, and they can really accelerate with a heavy load. Of course that use's power, but you can feel it pull! The same can be done for cars too. Look at the Tesla, but it's not practicle, and the price, well most cannot afford it! I can see fully electric vehicle use in cities where you don't have far to travel, but cities are really not very healthy, and the cramped quarters reminds me of the un agenda 21, and i REALLY don't like that!

plowjockey · #**142** 03/27/12, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyD

but cities are really not very healthy, and the cramped quarters reminds me of the un agenda 21, and i REALLY don't like that!

What does agenda 21 have to do with cramped cities? Just curious.

JeffreyD · #**143** 03/27/12, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

What does agenda 21 have to do with cramped cities? Just curious.

Man, i wrote a huge long post with links and HT went down, bah!

The gist of it is that the un agenda 21 is against private property rights. They feel that property ownership creates an economic divide. Those that have property are wealthy, and and that creates a burden on the poor, social economic justice. They think they know better when it come to land stewartship then the property owner. They want to change consumption patterns, demographic dynamics, promote human settlement developements, etc...

A/CONF.151/26 (Vol. I) REPORT OF THE UNITED NATIONS CONFERENCE ON ENVIRONMENT AND DEVELOPMENT

Principle 8

To achieve sustainable development and a higher quality of life for all
people, States should reduce and eliminate unsustainable patterns of production
and consumption and promote appropriate demographic policies.

Archived-Articles: UN Agenda 21 - Coming to a Neighborhood near You

Most Americans are unaware that one of the greatest threats to their freedom may be a United Nations program known as Agenda 21. The United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs, Division for Sustainable Development created Agenda 21 as a sustainability agenda which is arguably an amalgamation of socialism and extreme environmentalism brushed with anti-American, anti-capitalist overtones.

The United Nations purposely recommends avoiding the term Agenda 21 and suggests a cleverly named alternative: "smart growth."

A recent example of this can be found in Carroll County, Maryland, where a smart growth plan called Pathways was drafted by the County Planning Department. The plan, if enacted, proposed a breathtaking reshuffling of land rights:

•Rezoning of thousands of acres of beautiful, low-density agricultural farmland and protected residential conservation land into office parks
•Down-zoning of agriculture land to prevent future subdivision by farmers
•Up-zoning of low-density residential land around small towns into higher density zoning to permit construction of hundreds or possibly thousands of inclusive housing units, including apartments and condominiums
•Inclusive housing with placement of multi-family construction on in-fill lots within existing residential single family communities
•Endorsement of government-sponsored housing initiatives (subsidies) to ensure healthier, balanced neighborhoods

Smart growth plans usurp property rights and constitutional rights. Local officials, at the behest of State Government, revise zoning laws to fit into a "smart code" zoning template. A massive reshuffling of property rights ensues. Farmers may lose subdivision rights; conservation land adjacent to population centers may be rezoned into commercial employment centers; and low-density land in small towns is re-designated as growth area and rezoned to accommodate diverse housing including high-density apartments and condominiums.

Heritagefarm · #**144** 03/27/12, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

The Chevy Volt is powered with a 150HP electric motor. Not a ripper, yet, but equivilent horsepower to a average 4 clyinder gas engine.

They've made all-electric semis. They get 400 mile range.

Yvonne's hubby · #**145** 03/27/12, 10:37 PM

I forget which rail outfit it was... GSX maybe??.... had a commercial out the other day... they can roll 10,000 lbs of freight 500 miles on a single gallon of fuel. Thats the equivalent of 2 normal pickups.... loaded. It seems to me thats pretty efficient. Maybe we should think more about taking the diesel guzzling semis off the hiways and laying more steel track instead of building and rebuilding hiways all the time. Then for grins and giggles, we could set up solar panels all over the southern states and run the trains off of electricity instead of those diesel/electric hybrid locomotives.

beowoulf90 · #**146** 03/28/12, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Why does everyone think, that electric cars, have to be an all-or-nothing proposition? They were never indended to replace petrol powered vehicles, which may 40 years to phase out completely, for any new source of propulsion (unless we run out of oil first).

In certain situations, such as living in a large city and only commuting a few miles, per day, why would an electric car not be feasible?

BTW. Granted they get lot of juice, but railroad locomotives are powered by electric motors, are they not?

The 2012 Camry Hybrid electric traction motor is 140HP.

When Americans get sick of paying $5 gas, they warm up to electrics and other smaller cars.

To answer your question;

Because the Government and ecoterrorists are jamming them down our throats by legislation, making our hard working trucks more expensive to operate and maintain.. They are forcing those of us who use them to change or quit using them.. Yet they have given no other options....

If ecoterrorists and the Government would let market handle the change, things would change eventually. But that isn't good enough for the "Money" folks and they want their money now and have persuaded Government officials and ecoterrorists that their electric car ideology is the end all..

As for your locomotive being electric. That is only partially true.. They are powered by diesel which power huge generators which provides the electric to power the drive wheels..

So there again you have fossil fuels creating the power/ generating the electricity...

As to your last sentence... Don't bet on it.. They will be upset, but there may become a black market on some other fuel that can be used in their gas powered vehicles... But of course the government will try and step in and stop it because they won't be collecting taxes on it.. You may see more stills created in peoples backyards just for the creation of fuel for their vehicle.

But spend more money for less vehicle, I don't think so....

We may even have to create "drop tanks" that way if we think there is a "safety check point" we can drop the "illegal" fuel and proceed through the "safety check point" ..

I can see it now, the road littered with small plastic tanks with alcohol in then and plenty of road kill animals from drinking the alcohol and stumbling onto the road...

Heritagefarm · #**147** 03/28/12, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

To answer your question;

Because the Government and ecoterrorists are jamming them down our throats by legislation, making our hard working trucks more expensive to operate and maintain.. They are forcing those of us who use them to change or quit using them.. Yet they have given no other options....

If ecoterrorists and the Government would let market handle the change, things would change eventually. But that isn't good enough for the "Money" folks and they want their money now and have persuaded Government officials and ecoterrorists that their electric car ideology is the end all..

As for your locomotive being electric. That is only partially true.. They are powered by diesel which power huge generators which provides the electric to power the drive wheels..

So there again you have fossil fuels creating the power/ generating the electricity...

As to your last sentence... Don't bet on it.. They will be upset, but there may become a black market on some other fuel that can be used in their gas powered vehicles... But of course the government will try and step in and stop it because they won't be collecting taxes on it.. You may see more stills created in peoples backyards just for the creation of fuel for their vehicle.

But spend more money for less vehicle, I don't think so....

We may even have to create "drop tanks" that way if we think there is a "safety check point" we can drop the "illegal" fuel and proceed through the "safety check point" ..

I can see it now, the road littered with small plastic tanks with alcohol in then and plenty of road kill animals from drinking the alcohol and stumbling onto the road...

Your perpetual ignorance is truly astonishing. It shows how truly little you know. First of all, there are no "ecoterrorists" as you put it, and furthermoer if there are they hold no sway over the gov't, and they are not trying to regulate electric cars down your throats. Unless you think that anyone who does not agree with you, and wants to do what's best for the world instead what's best for "me" is an "ecoterrorist"?
And you really have no grounds to accuse them of being money grubbers when the oil industry is one of the biggest money grubbers and governmental influence out there.

arabian knight · #**148** 03/28/12, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

To answer your question;

Because the Government and ecoterrorists are jamming them down our throats by legislation, making our hard working trucks more expensive to operate and maintain.. They are forcing those of us who use them to change or quit using them.. Yet they have given no other options....

If ecoterrorists and the Government would let market handle the change, things would change eventually. But that isn't good enough for the "Money" folks and they want their money now and have persuaded Government officials and ecoterrorists that their electric car ideology is the end all..

As for your locomotive being electric. That is only partially true.. They are powered by diesel which power huge generators which provides the electric to power the drive wheels..

So there again you have fossil fuels creating the power/ generating the electricity...

As to your last sentence... Don't bet on it.. They will be upset, but there may become a black market on some other fuel that can be used in their gas powered vehicles... But of course the government will try and step in and stop it because they won't be collecting taxes on it.. You may see more stills created in peoples backyards just for the creation of fuel for their vehicle.

But spend more money for less vehicle, I don't think so....

We may even have to create "drop tanks" that way if we think there is a "safety check point" we can drop the "illegal" fuel and proceed through the "safety check point" ..

I can see it now, the road littered with small plastic tanks with alcohol in then and plenty of road kill animals from drinking the alcohol and stumbling onto the road...

Don't forget the greeei folks that have insisted on those CFL light bulbs.~!!!
I don;t give a rip what people do to safe the earth. Let them do all they want. But DON'T force this stuff on the rest of us.
IF you want to use the "green" light bulbs go ahead and use them. If you want to drive some tiny little cracker box go right ahead nobody is stopping you. BUT Let the Market and the PEOPLE decide for themselves what to use and how to use it. Not by some government agency that has such a agenda that NOW ANY new Coal Fired Electric plants can NOT be built~!1 THANKS A LOT. NOT~!!!

A NEW epa mandate makes it now Impossible for NEW plants to come on line. THAT IS not good at all in the name of Capitalism that Built this great country.

Quote:

The Obama administration proposed on Tuesday the first ever standards to cut carbon dioxide emissions from new power plants, a move likely to be hotly contested by Republicans and industry in an election year.

The Environmental Protection Agency proposed the long-delayed rules that limit emissions from all new U.S. power stations, which would effectively bar the building of any new coal plants.

EPA Proposes Contentious Carbon Limits on Power Plants

EPA Proposes Contentious Carbon Limits on Power Plants
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And YES their IS ecoterrorists. What would you call this~!!???
Talk about Job killing and bills going UP and Up and UP. THIS will do it.
Obama promised it, and by golly he is keeping this one.

JeffreyD · #**149** 03/28/12, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Your perpetual ignorance is truly astonishing. It shows how truly little you know. First of all, there are no "ecoterrorists" as you put it, and furthermoer if there are they hold no sway over the gov't, and they are not trying to regulate electric cars down your throats. Unless you think that anyone who does not agree with you, and wants to do what's best for the world instead what's best for "me" is an "ecoterrorist"?
And you really have no grounds to accuse them of being money grubbers when the oil industry is one of the biggest money grubbers and governmental influence out there.

Earth First! They published a manual on how to set booby traps that will kill and decapitate people. I'd call them "ecoterrorists", wouldn't you?

beowoulf90 · #**150** 03/28/12, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Your perpetual ignorance is truly astonishing. It shows how truly little you know. First of all, there are no "ecoterrorists" as you put it, and furthermoer if there are they hold no sway over the gov't, and they are not trying to regulate electric cars down your throats. Unless you think that anyone who does not agree with you, and wants to do what's best for the world instead what's best for "me" is an "ecoterrorist"?
And you really have no grounds to accuse them of being money grubbers when the oil industry is one of the biggest money grubbers and governmental influence out there.

Oh I see you don't like the words I use again!

You may not call them ecoterrorists, but I do, because that is what they are....

Remember the Spotted Owl and how they (ecoterrorists) stopped logging, because they falsely claimed the Logging industry was responsible and forced their views on people until the Government stopped the logging or severely limited it..

Well what happened when the truth came out. Nothing! the Government still limits the logging and tightly controls it...

What was the truth?

The truth was that nature herself was the one displacing the Spotted owl with the Barred owl...

Well this is being pushed by the same folks who care nothing about the truth..

So tell me what happened with Pickens and his wind farm?

Why is it that Obama and this admin can give millions if not billions to Solyndra and other false companies and nothing happens to Obama or the CEO's of those Companies?

How comes we've been adding pollution control equipment to our vehicles since the 1960's pushed by ecoterrorists who claimed we were killing the world.. Here we are 40 years or so later with tons of pollution control equipment and ecoterrorists are still claiming we are killing the world...

When is enough, enough?

All that they've done is ruin fuel mileage, nothing more.. So all those regs are worthless.. Yet I don't see you or anyone else trying to get rid of them...

If you wish to follow blindly, then fine by me..
But the problem is you and the ecoterrorists continue to claim we are killing the world and the only fix is now electric cars...

Shocking isn't it!

So here again is another ASSUPTION

This whole issue is about control and power for the politicians and you are all for giving up our freedoms to achieve their goal!

As to the oil companies being money grubbers you won't get an argument from me, but they are only allowed to do that because the Government lets them and regulates them so they can do it...

JeffreyD · #**151** 03/28/12, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Oh I see you don't like the words I use again!

You may not call them ecoterrorists, but I do, because that is what they are....

Remember the Spotted Owl and how they (ecoterrorists) stopped logging, because they falsely claimed the Logging industry was responsible and forced their views on people until the Government stopped the logging or severely limited it..Well what happened when the truth came out. Nothing! the Government still limits the logging and tightly controls it...

What was the truth?

The truth was that nature herself was the one displacing the Spotted owl with the Barred owl...

Well this is being pushed by the same folks who care nothing about the truth..

So tell me what happened with Pickens and his wind farm?

Why is it that Obama and this admin can give millions if not billions to Solyndra and other false companies and nothing happens to Obama or the CEO's of those Companies?

How comes we've been adding pollution control equipment to our vehicles since the 1960's pushed by ecoterrorists who claimed we were killing the world.. Here we are 40 years or so later with tons of pollution control equipment and ecoterrorists are still claiming we are killing the world...

When is enough, enough?

All that they've done is ruin fuel mileage, nothing more.. So all those regs are worthless.. Yet I don't see you or anyone else trying to get rid of them...

If you wish to follow blindly, then fine by me..
But the problem is you and the ecoterrorists continue to claim we are killing the world and the only fix is now electric cars...

Shocking isn't it!

So here again is another ASSUPTION

This whole issue is about control and power for the politicians and you are all for giving up our freedoms to achieve their goal!

As to the oil companies being money grubbers you won't get an argument from me, but they are only allowed to do that because the Government lets them and regulates them so they can do it...

The ecoterrorists spike trees with metal or ceramic spikes so when the tree is cut or sent to the mill, when the saw blade hits them, the blades shatter and send shrapnel flying. They also string wire about neck height so motorcycle riders using a legal trail get decapitated. I have spikes on my desk that the BLM and myself picked up while we were doing a course sweep for a permitted motorcycle events in the Mojave, this happens every year out here, hence the BLM presence!

Heritagefarm · #**152** 03/28/12, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Oh I see you don't like the words I use again!

You may not call them ecoterrorists, but I do, because that is what they are....

Remember the Spotted Owl and how they (ecoterrorists) stopped logging, because they falsely claimed the Logging industry was responsible and forced their views on people until the Government stopped the logging or severely limited it..

Well what happened when the truth came out. Nothing! the Government still limits the logging and tightly controls it...

What was the truth?

The truth was that nature herself was the one displacing the Spotted owl with the Barred owl...

Well this is being pushed by the same folks who care nothing about the truth..

So tell me what happened with Pickens and his wind farm?

Why is it that Obama and this admin can give millions if not billions to Solyndra and other false companies and nothing happens to Obama or the CEO's of those Companies?

How comes we've been adding pollution control equipment to our vehicles since the 1960's pushed by ecoterrorists who claimed we were killing the world.. Here we are 40 years or so later with tons of pollution control equipment and ecoterrorists are still claiming we are killing the world...

When is enough, enough?

All that they've done is ruin fuel mileage, nothing more.. So all those regs are worthless.. Yet I don't see you or anyone else trying to get rid of them...

If you wish to follow blindly, then fine by me..
But the problem is you and the ecoterrorists continue to claim we are killing the world and the only fix is now electric cars...

Shocking isn't it!

So here again is another ASSUPTION

This whole issue is about control and power for the politicians and you are all for giving up our freedoms to achieve their goal!

As to the oil companies being money grubbers you won't get an argument from me, but they are only allowed to do that because the Government lets them and regulates them so they can do it...

*yawn* You were interesting there for a while, but now I smell nothing except brainless ranting. I'm sure you can always find someone else with your IQ level to talk with.

Bearfootfarm · #**153** 03/28/12, 02:53 PM

Quote:

*yawn* You were interesting there for a while, but now I smell nothing except brainless ranting. I'm sure you can always find someone else with your IQ level to talk with.

You can never resist the childish insults, can you?

beowoulf90 · #**154** 03/28/12, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

You can never resist the childish insults, can you?

Yea, first I'm ignorant, then brainless and have a low IQ..

Yet I'm the one who is told to be nice...

Go figure!

beowoulf90 · #**155** 03/28/12, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

*yawn* You were interesting there for a while, but now I smell nothing except brainless ranting. I'm sure you can always find someone else with your IQ level to talk with.

So apparently you don't like the fact that I explained part of the reason I consider them ecoterrorists..

I guess you have to deal with it or block me.. Either way is fine by me.

Heritagefarm · #**156** 03/28/12, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Yea, first I'm ignorant, then brainless and have a low IQ..

Yet I'm the one who is told to be nice...

Go figure!

Neato. You consider ranting and random assumptions conducive to debate? That's not debating - that's arguing. Try taking some more college - you may learn the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

You can never resist the childish insults, can you?

Listen to the pot calling the kettle black.

Bearfootfarm · #**157** 03/28/12, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Neato. You consider ranting and random assumptions conducive to debate? That's not debating - that's arguing. Try taking some more college - you may learn the difference.

Listen to the pot calling the kettle black.

Show me some examples where I used name calling to make a point.

beowoulf90 · #**158** 03/29/12, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Neato. You consider ranting and random assumptions conducive to debate? That's not debating - that's arguing. Try taking some more college - you may learn the difference.

Listen to the pot calling the kettle black.

So now I'm uneducated, no problem..

Yet you still want to force your "planet saver" electric cars down my throat..

Well let me just say, You better be up for a fight! Because I'm going to give you one! Where ever and when ever possible!

arabian knight · #**159** 03/29/12, 02:35 PM

I agree. Nobody should be allowed to Force Anyone living on this planet to go green.
No one, and No Government.