Where are our high mileage cars?

plowjockey · #81 03/17/12, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyD

The westfield mall here took out their charging stations because no one was using them and they want more up front space for handicapped parking.

Manufacturers have only been making electric cars (recently)for the last 2 years, or so. There are not that many on the road.

If and when the need increases, it should be pretty easy, to put the charging stations back in.

Much to the chagrin of the handicapped.

JeffreyD · #82 03/17/12, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Manufacturers have only been making electric cars (recently)for the last 2 years, or so. There are not that many on the road.

If and when the need increases, it should be pretty easy, to put the charging stations back in.

Much to the chagrin of the handicapped.

Yeah, that's very true. The city I live in is long and thin, and of course, everything is "across town". So it's easy to put some miles on just doing day to day stuff. And I'm positive when those parking spots were converted back they didn't pull up the power cables, so it WOULD be easy to convert back. Seems around here, most of those parked in the handicapped spot's, aren't!

wendle · #83 03/18/12, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

It seems a bit ironic, but about right for Americans.

The new Chevy Volt technology, gets 36MPG (highway) worst case scenario on gasoline and uses nearly 1/3 the cost of gasoline, (average) running on electricity-charged batteries.

And all, many Americans can do, is bash the Volt, because it is too expensive, or subsidized by taxpayers, Government Motors, ugly, etc, etc.

Maybe we are the problem here.

Volt drivers going 1,000 miles between fill-ups, GM says - May. 2, 2011

36 mpg isn't all that great compared to some of the other cars that have been out there for a while. I don't get why we need to subsidize that particular company.
I just checked my 91 honda yesterday on gas mileage and it was 49 mpg. mostly highway. It is a small car and doesn't have all the bells and whistles people want now. It does get me where I need to go and saves having to drive the truck when I don't need to haul anything big.

wendle · #84 03/18/12, 07:48 AM

Electric cars sound nice, but if they are using non renewable "dirty" energy to recharge, I don't know that they are much better than what we have. Now if people started working on their own alternative energy sources, and not just for powering cars I think we could make a bigger impact. Even though people talk about saving the planet, and saving energy, they keep going about their daily lives consuming huge amounts of energy and waiting for the government to find a solution.

arabian knight · #85 03/18/12, 09:19 AM

And as far as all electric cars goes in this country. It is just a pipe dream at best, way to many of the masses drive way too many miles at one time to even think about making the switch to some car that goes just a few miles before it needs charging. Way too many Wide Open Spaces in this country, miles and miles of nothing, which is not suited for this dream of getting Americans, switched to electric "toys".

ajaxlucy · #86 03/18/12, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Just curious, what car is it?
.

It's called a Think City. The car is assembled in Elkhart, IN and the batteries are made in Indianapolis. Sales and servicing are through a local Indiana dealer. Think started in Norway, but I think the original European division filed for bankruptcy. Think North America did not. 4 roll-out cities were chosen for the cars, but since they're made here, people in more than one town in Indiana were able to buy them. They're made to appeal to people who live in areas where most daily commuting is within 20-30 miles of home, especially where public transportation is poor.

I don't think electric cars are a pipe dream for commuters in relatively population dense areas with commutes of under 30 miles. That includes a lot of people. 12-13 years ago when the first hybrid cars appeared on lots, there was tremendous skepticism and resistance, at least from folks at my workplace. Now a lot of them have or want a Prius. The same thing may well happen with electric cars IF the manufacturers can keep the cost to consumers down. Toyota was smart enough to offer the first Priuses at a loss to build the North American market.

arabian knight · #87 03/18/12, 10:23 AM

Well lets see there are some start up auto manufacturers around. One is not far from me, that in a couple of months will start building cars.
My friends that have a vending service may get them as a customer.
But is sure isn't a electric car at all. No way.
They are going to start up a replica version of the Duesenberg

Duesenberg Motors' replica cars to be made in Baldwin, Wis. - TwinCities.com

reluctantpatriot · #88 03/18/12, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyD

I just think that with gm owning part of Toyota, they would have a better chance of producing a decent electric car. Personaly, the government has absolutly NO business giving subsidies to any company, let alone giving gm that much to produce a carp car. Also, I personaly don't care about mileage. My everyday driver is a GMC 4X4 longbed, crewcab with an 8.1 litre V8. My other everyday driver is a Z06 Vette. My wife drives an H2 and my son drives a Ford Raptor. I'm willing to pay more for gas and be comfortable and be able to run over a smart car if need be! I worked hard to be able to afford the things we want. I could build an electric car that would run circles around a volt, be safer and more comfortable too, for less than they sell for.

1) As you agree that the government has absolutely no business given subsidies to any company, does that belief extend to all companies in the petroleum industry as well as agricultural companies (all farmers included)?

2) It is great that you and your family do not care about mileage. Some of us, such as my wife and I, do care about our budget, the well-being of others, and the future of the planet.

3) I am also glad that you are willing to pay more for gas. How much more you do not say, but as your family seems to drive four vehicles which likely obtain about 15 mpg on average, if not less, I presume you would be just as content driving the same vehicles even if gas reaches $10 per gallon. You can drive whatever you want, but if you complain about the price of fuel in the future when you will likely continue to drive the same less efficient vehicles, that is your choice and I have no sympathy.

4) Your desire to "be comfortable and be able to run over a smart car if need be" does concern me though. Perhaps my wife and I should make certain we keep armament sufficient to blow a hole in the engine blocks of vehicles such as yours so we can appropriately defend ourselves. Your clearly expressed desire to drive like a self-righteous entitled loon in your vehicle is why other drivers are not safe in their smaller vehicles. For that matter, because of the mass of your vehicle, driven by someone of your mindset, you are more dangerous than most drivers on the road.

5) "I worked hard to be able to afford the things we want." I do not begrudge you the desire to buy what you want. However, I can judge you on your behavior given your views of why you purchase the things you want, especially the vehicles you and your family drive.

6) "I could build an electric car that would run circles around a volt, be safer and more comfortable too, for less than they sell for." If you can do that, then please be my guest and do it. Since you believe yourself to be a better automotive engineer than an entire car company, prove it. Besides, you could then become even richer.

plowjockey · #89 03/18/12, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendle

36 mpg isn't all that great compared to some of the other cars that have been out there for a while. I don't get why we need to subsidize that particular company.
I just checked my 91 honda yesterday on gas mileage and it was 49 mpg. mostly highway. It is a small car and doesn't have all the bells and whistles people want now. It does get me where I need to go and saves having to drive the truck when I don't need to haul anything big.

Why is this concept so hard to grasp?

They are not for everybody and never claimed to be.

The Volt is primarily designed to run off of ELECTRICITY, which costs about 1/3 (average), PER MILE, the cost of gasoline. They surely did not focus on maximum MPG from the gas engine.

The whole idea is to run off of the batteries as much as possible, because of the lower fuel costs. The gas engine is there, when the batteries no longer are able to supply power.

Driving a Volt around on gasoline only would make zero sense and yes, Volt are not designed for extended highway driving.

My roundtrip daily driving is 22 miles, so I could be by on electric charge, regularily. I can't afford cross country road trips, but if the occasional one did come up and running on gas only, the difference 32MPG and 49MPG would not be a deal-breaker.

The savings is in the short trips, which is what most drivers make daily.

reluctantpatriot · #90 03/18/12, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyD

Yup, all the county and city vehicles, trash, buses, etc... all use ng. It is HIGHLY explosive though.

And while municipalities can use it easily due to larger vehicles capable of holding large amounts of the highly pressurized gas, a personal vehicle is less easily run on it. Yes, you can put a high pressure storage tank in a vehicle though it reduces cargo room in a pickup as it takes up a certain amount of the bed for the tanks and reduces room in the trunk, if not taking up the entire trunk, of a passenger car. Also, the refill facilities are restricted to a few areas in the country plus the range of such a vehicle is significantly less than a conventionally fueled vehicle.

It is practical for propane companies to run their delivery trucks on it because they run the truck's engine off of the tank they haul around to fill customer's stationary propane tanks. City vehicles can use it because they only range within a limited area and have dedicated fueling facilities.

plowjockey · #91 03/18/12, 11:41 AM

Quote:

"I could build an electric car that would run circles around a volt, be safer and more comfortable too, for less than they sell for."

Have fun fitting in the eight airbags, the Chevy Volt has, that allows it to get the high NHTSA crash ratings it gets.

That probably $10k of the Volts cost, right there.

plowjockey · #92 03/18/12, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

They are going to start up a replica version of the Duesenberg

Duesenberg Motors' replica cars to be made in Baldwin, Wis. - TwinCities.com

This is exactly what America has been waiting for.

I could drive one around and honk at my less-affluent neighbors.

plowjockey · #93 03/18/12, 12:34 PM

Maybe this will be the start fo a whole DIY electric car hotrod industry.

It used to be if you want and electric car (build or retrofit) you'd have to go buy 20 lead-acid batteries and find some type of surplus electric motor. Not that great of a set up.

Maybe in the future, we might be able to buy lightweight, low cost, powerful, efficient aftermarket automotive batteries and motors, to slap into the dune-buggies and 89' Corollas, we have sitting behind the garage.

How about an electric Duesenberg replica?

Entrepreneurs?

Trixie · #94 03/18/12, 02:02 PM

I am not sure, but I think there are fuel efficient cars out there. My son in law has a VW diesel - says he gets great mileage - I wish I could remember the numbers.

We do more driving, we seem to haul more stuff, and pull more stuff than the rest of the world - maybe it just seems that way. Also, a lot of people want larger vehicles for the sake of safety. Yes, we can't haul our travel trailer with the Suzuki.

I do wish we had more mass transit in this country, but it would take a real shift to make that work.

wendle · #95 03/18/12, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Why is this concept so hard to grasp?

They are not for everybody and never claimed to be.

The Volt is primarily designed to run off of ELECTRICITY, which costs about 1/3 (average), PER MILE, the cost of gasoline. They surely did not focus on maximum MPG from the gas engine.

The whole idea is to run off of the batteries as much as possible, because of the lower fuel costs. The gas engine is there, when the batteries no longer are able to supply power.

Driving a Volt around on gasoline only would make zero sense and yes, Volt are not designed for extended highway driving.

My roundtrip daily driving is 22 miles, so I could be by on electric charge, regularily. I can't afford cross country road trips, but if the occasional one did come up and running on gas only, the difference 32MPG and 49MPG would not be a deal-breaker.

The savings is in the short trips, which is what most drivers make daily.

So the car should sell itself and not have to be subsidized by taxpayers

plowjockey · #96 03/18/12, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendle

So the car should sell itself and not have to be subsidized by taxpayers

It's a little late for that and history has proved Government assistance is necessary, in many instances.

Would private Companies have built the transcontental railroad, or wire every barn in America, with electricity, without Government assistance?

No way.

But since taypayers have already paid for the Volt's development, what is the point, of chastizing and ingoring, what might be useful technology?

Cut off our nose, to spite our face?

JeffreyD · #97 03/18/12, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Have fun fitting in the eight airbags, the Chevy Volt has, that allows it to get the high NHTSA crash ratings it gets.

That probably $10k of the Volts cost, right there.

You only need airbags for mass produced vehicles, specialized customs do not require them, nor do they need to be submitted for distruction. Here's one of my toy's.

Where are our high mileage cars? - General Chat

Where are our high mileage cars? - General Chat

beowoulf90 · #98 03/19/12, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

What can I say? The taxpayer money has already been spent and Chevy has a car that can average 100mpg.

Whether one likes it or not, the Chevy volt, is a viable and available alternative high MPG vehicle, which is what the OP was about.

Personally, I could care less if one buys one or not.

But that's ok, I'll sit and listen to people continue to whine, about about the high cost of oil and why "the Government" won't do anything to help. Maybe more drilling or a pipeline from Canada, is the answer.

A 100MPG car is just a bad idea, because it came from GM.

Your logic is perfect.

Where's the truck that is hauling 1000 lbs of scrap?
Oh wait that's right it's a "do as I say, not as I do" thing... In the last 2 weeks I've hauled on Sat morns over 2300 lbs of scrap... Yet I'm the bad guy who doesn't want a tonka toy... You do know where I get most of the scrap? From people just like you who throw this out for the landfill... Maybe we should force them to haul it in their volts.. That will really save fuel....

Where is the little diesel truck from India? The last I heard it was stuck in Customs and the EPA regs.. Yet it had a hauling capacity of 2300 lbs or better in one load and is the size of my Dakota..

Imagine, the Government doesn't want to give us options and force us to buy from their company AKA GM...

But hey you go for it.. Just remember that when you need to get rid of the large items, don't call me, especially since you will criticize me for what I drive..

plowjockey · #99 03/19/12, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Where's the truck that is hauling 1000 lbs of scrap?
Oh wait that's right it's a "do as I say, not as I do" thing... In the last 2 weeks I've hauled on Sat morns over 2300 lbs of scrap... Yet I'm the bad guy who doesn't want a tonka toy... You do know where I get most of the scrap? From people just like you who throw this out for the landfill... Maybe we should force them to haul it in their volts.. That will really save fuel....

Where is the little diesel truck from India? The last I heard it was stuck in Customs and the EPA regs.. Yet it had a hauling capacity of 2300 lbs or better in one load and is the size of my Dakota..

Imagine, the Government doesn't want to give us options and force us to buy from their company AKA GM...

But hey you go for it.. Just remember that when you need to get rid of the large items, don't call me, especially since you will criticize me for what I drive..

When did I criticise you for what you drive? My pickup truck is 12 years old.

So, your solution for the high fuel prices from foriegn oil and the unemployment in America, is to buy a truck from India?

Sound's like a plan.

BTW, you might want to do your homework, before plunking down your hard-earned scrap metal money, on this wonderful Indian truck.

It was never meant to come to the U.S. and the EPA or Customs has little to do with it.

It is a scam, meant to take money from potential dealers and customers, provided by the same guy that scammed Americans 14 years ago, with the "Aro".

Mahindra

Quote:

Nevertheless, Global CEO John Perez said in a recent statement. “good fuel economy will be an important part of the truck’s appeal, and we’re eager to see the fuel economy for all of the models, especially the two-door, two-wheel-drive model, which Mahindra told us to expect would achieve close to 30 mpg.”

Quote:

The MPG fiasco, is just another aspect of this whole thing which smacks of complete disorganization and chaos. For over two years, US buyers have been promised this truck and now with Mahindra and GV tied up in court battles and some 350 dealers having forked out the money for a franchise, so far with nothing in return, things are looking increasingly bleak.

Mahindra | AutoGuide.com News

Quote:

In 2006, Mahindra announced intent to bring its T20 and T40 light trucks to the U.S. market — Global Vehicles USA would partner with the company to handle distribution. That fell apart in 2010 before the truck was set to launch when the agreement between the two companies expired. Global Vehicles said that Mahindra ended the contract while Mahindra maintained that Global Vehicles allowed the expiration to occur, which worked in Mahindra’s favor. Global Vehicles USA sought arbritration in London, saying that Mahindra had breached the contract.

Most recently, arbitration found that Mahindra did not breach the terms of contract and that the deal legitimately expired. The finding ends Mahindra’s partnership with Global Vehicles and makes it highly unlikely that the small turbo-diesel truck will ever make it to our shores, at least under cooperation by the feuding firms.

Mahindra and Mahindra Hopes Fade For Small Truck in U.S. | AutoGuide.com News

ARO 1998

Quote:

In 1998 an American businessman, John Perez, offered franchise agreements to US auto dealers. Some 200 dealers paid $75,000 each for franchise rights, for a total of $15 million dollars. These rights were offered by a company called East European Imports. The ARO was offered as a Warsaw pact surplus military vehicle. After the franchises were sold, dealers were pressured to send cashiers checks or wire transfers to start receiving vehicles that were allegedly being held in a port in Florida. Dealers refused and insisted to pay upon delivery which eventually led to East European Imports closing its doors

.

ARO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

beowoulf90 · #**100** 03/20/12, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

When did I criticise you for what you drive? My pickup truck is 12 years old.

So, your solution for the high fuel prices from foriegn oil and the unemployment in America, is to buy a truck from India?

Sound's like a plan.

BTW, you might want to do your homework, before plunking down your hard-earned scrap metal money, on this wonderful Indian truck.

It was never meant to come to the U.S. and the EPA or Customs has little to do with it.

It is a scam, meant to take money from potential dealers and customers, provided by the same guy that scammed Americans 14 years ago, with the "Aro".

Mahindra

Mahindra | AutoGuide.com News

Mahindra and Mahindra Hopes Fade For Small Truck in U.S. | AutoGuide.com News

ARO 1998

.

ARO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why not? The only ones that would get employed here would be Union workers who already make more than the average worker... So why would I want to feed the "big boys"....

Plus they (the Unions and auto manufacturers) have already been bailed out with my tax dollars, why would I want to give them more of my money? They didn't earn or deserve the money they got...

So can any of the Big 3 make a similar truck for a similar cost?

I didn't think so! Union wages & benefits and CEO wages and benefits are so high that they can't do it... Here in the US a truck starts at $25,000 or better and goes up from there.. I wonder why that is?

Oh wait I know why...

They used to build a little Chevy Luv in diesel, what happened? All they would have needed to do was beef up the suspension and they could have had a little beast.. But for some reason we here in the US are suppose to have cheap vehicles that run well.. Instead they would rather rape us on the price for their junk they can't sell elsewhere.

As to the India truck... Thanks I didn't know that!