Rick Warren: a false teacher or just misguided???
 

More watering down of the word of God..... Rick Warren- THE INFAMOUS EVANGELIST APOSTATE!!!

Just another step up the ladder to that One World Government; aka CFR; i.e.
Council on Foreign Relations; of which he is a prominent member of.

The Rev. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest and one of America's most
influential Christian leaders, has embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical
Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of
theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.


http://www.ocregister.com/articles/m...addleback.html

The effort by a prominent Christian leader to bridge what polls show is a deep rift
between Muslims and evangelical Christians culminated in December at a dinner at
Saddleback attended by 300 Muslims and members of Saddleback's congregation.

At the dinner, Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach,
and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in Los Angeles, introduced King's Way
as "a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians."

The men presented a document they co-authored outlining points of agreement between Islam
and Christianity. The document affirms that Christians and Muslims believe in "one God" and share two
central commandments: "love of God" and "love of neighbor." The document also commits both
faiths to three goals: Making friends with one another, building peace and working on shared social
service projects. The document quotes side-by-side verses from the Bible and the Koran to illustrate its claims.

"We agreed we wouldn't try to evangelize each other," said Turk. "We'd witness to
each other but it would be out of 'Love Thy Neighbor,' not focused on conversion."

Saddleback representatives declined to make Warren available for comment. Tom Holladay,
associate senior pastor at Saddleback, said the outreach to Muslims is part of Saddleback's
PEACE Plan, a wide-ranging effort to solve major world problems by mobilizing governments,
businesses and faith communities.

2Thessalonians 2:1 - Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2Thessalonians 2:2 - that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a
spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

2Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come
unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

2Thessalonians 2:4 - who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.


Luke 17:1 - He said to His disciples, "It is inevitable that
stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come!

Luke 17:2 - "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and
he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble."

Revelation 3:13 - 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Revelation 3:14 - "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

Revelation 3:15 - 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.

Revelation 3:16 - 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

Revelation 3:17 - 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,"
and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked'

In theory all three of the world's major religions start with the same man, Abram/Abraham, and same God. Islam branched from Abraham son Ishmael from his wife's (Sarah's) servant, Hagar. Judaism and Christianity is traced back to Abraham's son Isaac from his wife, Sarah.

The problem comes in reality. All of the religions teach that there is no other way which means if you are a true believer you can't compromise with any one from the other.

With Christianity its no big deal. Their teachings says people are to be told of Christ and allowed to make their on choice to follow or not.

With Judaism its sort of a problem. Their teachings say to allow foreigners but not to allow their people to follow foreign religions and to kill anyone who does.

With Islam its a MAJOR problem. Their teachings say someone must follow Islam or be killed with a small exception. If a person is a Jew or Christian he is a follower of the God of Abraham and is allowed to follow his religion as long as he pays a tax. But he is not allowed to spread his religion even to his own children.


Anyone teaching otherwise about the religions is a false teacher of that religion.

He must not be too influential I'd never heard of him but then maybe I've just been under a rock. :gaptooth:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

The Muslim are waiting for their Mahdi not Jesus. Does that sound like Christian are on the same page?

And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen17:15-16
The son of the covenant was Issac, not Ishmael.

A few years ago he wrote a book that was all the rage, "A Purpose Driven Life".

I've heard of other churches doing something similar. They are basically coming up with a new religion that combines Islam and Christianity. It's called Chrislam.

Oh, " The Purpose Driven Life" became so popular and cultish for my Aunt and Uncle in the church they attended that they had to leave as it stopped being a Baptist church and became more cultish to that book.

Oh me.

(And I had no idea who that fellow referred to was, until the book was mentioned.)

His first big book was The Purpose Driven Church and that lead to the "40 Days of Purpose" movement. I can't stand any of it. I've left two churches, one after they did 40 Days of Purpose, and the next one as soon as they announced they were going to. Warren has also been buddy buddy with Obama for years.

Of yeah I remember hearing about that book.Never read it.
Dear Lord in heaven we are in the end times for sure,Chrislam,sounds dangerous to me. People do understand who Islam believes the second coming of Christ to be or who the Mahdi is going to be. :strongsad: It is a sad day that our brethren do not keep the faith and lose their first love on which the Church was founded.

You have been under a rock. He's becoming the face of the "new Christianity".


But if you read farther in Gen 17 you find:

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

And in Gen 21;

13 I will make the son of the servant into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”

17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”

The followers of Islam believe because Ishmael was the first born he is the true line.

Better read your Bible closer, God made a Covenant through Ishmael too.
Problem is that modern Islam has little to do with the Biblical Covenant.

I've read it.They are blessed to multiply for Abraham 's sake.
Gen 17: 18-21
And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Now look at the angel said about Ishmael Gen.16: 11-12 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Describes his offspring today.

Warren is a false prophet. His aim is bring about one world religion.

chrislam
 

2 Corinthians 6
14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

As a Christian I believe we are seeing the fulfillment of end time prophecies. Chrislam could very well become the one world religion.

2 Timothy 3

Godlessness in the Last Days

1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power.
Have nothing to do with them.
6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,
7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.
8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected.
9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
10 You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance,
11 persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them.
12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
13 while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I can not believe that someone has not brought up the fact that Warren spoke at Obama's big Washington party.

Wow you guys are a gloomy lot with this whole "end times" line of thinking.

Not in the least....
 

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I can understand those who have no hope, nor future; would be thinking that.......
but MOST of us are eagerly awaiting the return of our Lord and Savoir. :bouncy:

Wouldn't be doing our job, if we didn't warn the rest of you of what's coming soon to a world near you. :duel::peep:

Which ones.....????
 

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The inauguration or the convention in 2009, in which he spoke to 8000 muslims?


The latter one, was mentioned within the OP's hyperlink.

Only some Muslims are waiting for the Mahdi


God made a similar covenant on behalf of Ishmael, promising that he too would be the father of a nation

Actually......no; he did NOT make a similar 'covenant' on
 

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behalf of Ishmael.......although he did provide a blessing. BIG DIFFERENCE.....you should look into the meaning of each.

Here's what God said to Abram regarding both; a covenant regarding Isaac and all his seed would
produce-vs-the blessing to the child of the flesh; Ishmael, who would be the father to the Arabs.
God had already made his covenant of promise with Abram earlier, but because Abram and
Sarai were so old (WAY past 'normal' child-bearing age), they took the only way that
they could see to make it happen.....by using Haggar as a substitute for Sarai and producing a child
(Ishmael) thru her. God made it quite clear later, that this wasn't what He had planned at all.
Abram still didn't get it.....he was still looking at it from the fleshly point of view and not from the
future, which God had promised by faith. God made it very plain in the following verses.

Genesis 17:18 - And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

Genesis 17:19 - And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac:
and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.

Genesis 17:20 - And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful,
and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Genesis 17:21 - But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

promise... covenant... does God differentiate his word by playing semantics?

Y"all are sure good a quoting bible scripture and there being a multitude of different versions, which would apply? I could not see anywhere in mine where Jesus or any of his apostles claimed to be Christian, but in fact claim to be Israelite. Religious debate is entertaining though. Flame on I know, just asking.

well, if you want to be that technical, they didn't claim to be Israelites in the New Testaments, as 'Israel' has ceased to a couple hundred years prior when it was conquered by the Assyrians. Jesus and the disciples were Judeans - the southern kingdom established folowing the civil war after King Solomon died (his son was Rehoboam, as I call, and was a weak and unfit king). The area of the northern kingdom was called Israel until the Assyrians destroyed it, and at the time of Christ was known as Samaria. Judea was conquered about a hundred years after Israel by the Babylonians, who in turn were conquered by the Persians who allowed Judea to be re-established as a client kingdom. Judea continued to survive independently or as a client state of various empires until it became a province of Rome and then was completely destroyed and 'erased' by the Emperor Hadrian who renamed it Palestine (Syria Palaestina, to be completely accurate), and renamed Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina.

If you want to be technical....

Nothing gloomy I'm looking forward to the last trump sounding and the dead rising. I get to see my Lord and Savior and have my oldest dd in my arms, I'll see my parents and grandparents and so many friends.It will be a grand day for those who accept Jesus.

I . . . . nevermind.

Enjoy your end times folks, the rest of us will be working.

Toodles!

Just one reference

Romans 11 (Paul the Apostle) KJV

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Semantics would be one thing to consider....if such was the case
 

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As it is, you've failed to show the difference between a covenant and a blessing.
Paul, in his epistle to the Romans however, noted this and provided that answer in:

Romans 9:7 - nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: " THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."

Romans 9:8 - That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Romans 9:9 - For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON."


He continues further along the line of those of the 'promise' and those who aren't, by showing us a picture of a potter making vessels of clay.


Romans 9:20 - On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

Romans 9:21 - Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

Romans 9:22 - What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

Romans 9:23 - And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

Romans 9:24 - even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

Clearly, Isaac was the child of promise......
while Ishmael was only given a blessing
that he would be the father of a great nation.

So yes, there is a difference and it's NOT just semantics.

My understanding is "Allah" is not Arabic (or whatever) for "god", but is their god's actual name. Does that make sense? Whereas, the God of the Bible is Yaweh (or actually YWH, since Hebrew has no vowels). So, Christians worship Jesus the Christ who claimed to be Yaweh.

Christians and Muslims do worship the same god but they just see that god from a different point of view. Jews, christians, and muslims are all in the same family, sort of like cousins. christians are jews who believe jesus was the messiah. jews are jews who do not believe that jesus was the messiah. Muslims believe that jesus was a prophet and they honor him as a prophet, but, they believe that mohomad was the last and final prophet sent to spread god's final message to the world and that the koran is god's final and most perfect order for life on earth.

Read the bible and it becomes obvious that even the jewish people of the old testament went way off track when it came to God. So have Christians, threads like this are proof. "Believe what I believe or be chastised". By the way so have Muslims.
I was once told that the worst sin in God's eyes is self righteousness.

You were lied to.
God doesn't grade sin.

Gloomy??? Gloomy at the thought of the end of this world? NO WAY! The end of this world is a great thing, it means the next one, the perfect one, is here.

There is no "worst" sin in God's eyes; to him sin is sin. Its humans who try to put their perspective on God who make statements like that. In our eyes a murder should be punished more harshly than a trespasser. In our eyes an adulterer is a bigger sinner than a gossip.

As long as you are quoting Paul from Romans:

Romans 2:28,29

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Point taken, but I would object that Paul's perspective is a lot different than Abraham's.

Continuing on down this line of thought though there are other points that need to be made:

1. God's covenenant was not evenly kept to the descendants of Isaac, even through a single generation - Jacob stole his brother's birthright, leaving Esau out in the cold. 'Israelites' are the descendants of Jacob - renamed Israel after wrestling with the angel. Esau and his descendants did remain in the general area for a while, establishing the kingdom of Edom, which later, God cast out of his pool, so the Covenant was refined from the Children of Abraham to mean only the Children of Jacob, Abraham's grandson.

2. When the civil war in the Kingdom of Israel divided it into two kingdoms - Israel in the North and Judah in the south - Judah was made up primarily of three of the tribes: Judah, Benjamin, and part of Ephraim. The Assyrians came along and destroyed Israel, and a bit later the Babylonian conquered Judea. After the Persians conquered Babylon, they allowed Judea to be re-established. Assyria resettled the territory of Israel, which became known as Samaria, and the inhabitants converted to Judeaism - sort of - but the re-established Judea did not consider them to be truly Jewish, which is why Samaritans had such a bad rap in the early New Testament (The parable of the Good Samaritan (as opposed to ordinary Samaritans), and the story of the Samaritan woman at the well with Jesus). Again, the covenant was narrowed from just the Children of Jacob to the descendants of three of his sons.

3. Besides the Samaritans, Judeaism was spreading to non-Jews. A lot of Greeks were converting to Judaism, no small number of them Gnostics. Given the historical and cultural contexts, Paul was clearly distinguishing himself and his fellow Judeans from those who just happened to be practicing the Jewish religion as those with whom the actual covenant had been made - the true descendants of Israel (Jacob) - a pretty small club. Paul, was in effect, trying to establish his credentials.

4. All of the above is generally irrelevant, since whatever Paul's opinion, Jesus didn't come to save only the Jews, or only the true Judeans, or to refine the meaning of Judaism, but to do away with Judaism and open salvation to all men, regardless of where they were from. You could argue whether or not this constituted a new covenant, or simply the opening of the old covenant to everyone. I tend toward the 'New Covenant' philosophy myself.