Is this right?

Jena · #21 02/17/12, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignugly

I read this report and I have some questions about it. First, anything provided by the Federal Reserve(not a government entity) is questionable at best. Second, The percentages quoted were Chinese goods compared to American goods and services. Services include restaurants, hospitals, schools, government jobs and etc. I would like to see a comparison of Chinese produced goods to American produced goods. Third, what about the countries that are directly controlled or influenced by China like Nepal, Tibet, Viet Nam and etc.
There is no doubt that automation has had a major impact on the manufacturing sector jobs but out sourcing has had a major impact also

I had the same thoughts when I read that. They compare apples (chinese goods) not only to oranges, but the entire produce section! Not exactly a convincing argument.

plowjockey · #22 02/17/12, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

AS time goes on you will more than likely see more "assembly line" jobs being replace with robotics/automation.. It seems the machines don't ask for raises and benefits every year.... Go figure...

IMO, robots do a whole lot more, than just simply replace expensive humans, in the workplace.

Robots can spray paint and spot weld, position tiny semi conductors - perfectly, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. No human could match this level of production and quality control, which product imperfections can kill profits, when they occur. Nearly everything need to be manufactured very precisely, any more. Robots also work in dirty, dangerous, hot/cold situations.

To have a human do, what a robot/automated process can do, just for the sake of a job, no longer makes business sense.

One backhoe and one dump truck, replaced very many men, using shovels and wheelborrows, to move dirt. That's the way it went.

It made no sense to go back.

plowjockey · #23 02/17/12, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danaus29

What about the clothing industry? It still requires human labor and yet those humans do not live in the US.

And they probably never will, IMO.

I have a friend who is the very few caucasian, who sews products, for a famous handbag maker, here in on of their U.S. plants. The rest are either legal immigrants, from Mexico or Laos.

The sewing work is tedious, dusty and rushed, to get products done. products are constant changing and there are always quality issues. The work environemnt is safe, but hardly pleasant.

IMO, it would be a waste to bring back the garment industry, since Americans would have no intention of sitting at a a sewing machine, sewing constantly for 8-10 hours a day, even if it paid well.

big rockpile · #24 02/17/12, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

IMO, robots do a whole lot more, than just simply replace expensive humans, in the workplace.

Robots can spray paint and spot weld, position tiny semi conductors - perfectly, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. No human could match this level of production and quality control, which product imperfections can kill profits, when they occur. Nearly everything need to be manufactured very precisely, any more. Robots also work in dirty, dangerous, hot/cold situations.

To have a human do, what a robot/automated process can do, just for the sake of a job, no longer makes business sense.

One backhoe and one dump truck, replaced very many men, using shovels and wheelborrows, to move dirt. That's the way it went.

It made no sense to go back.

Some times just not feasible.I use to Dig Graves in an area you just couldn't get a Backhoe in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

And they probably never will, IMO.

I have a friend who is the very few caucasian, who sews products, for a famous handbag maker, here in on of their U.S. plants. The rest are either legal immigrants, from Mexico or Laos.

The sewing work is tedious, dusty and rushed, to get products done. products are constant changing and there are always quality issues. The work environemnt is safe, but hardly pleasant.

IMO, it would be a waste to bring back the garment industry, since Americans would have no intention of sitting at a a sewing machine, sewing constantly for 8-10 hours a day, even if it paid well.

Me and my wife use to work Garment Industry.It was Piece e Work my wife was much faster than me made very Good money,Truth in order for me to come even close would take Illegal Drugs.She was making $16 an Hour 27 years ago,couple years ago she was Sewing Military Garments for Haliburton they paid by the hour $8 which for around here was pretty good just never got any raises.They left the country.

As far as Automation the Bakery I Retired from use to make Bread just about the same as a person does at home just larger quantities.All of a sudden went fully automated,still required people to watch just basically no lifting.Because the way the Bread was made tasted like crap.I was one of the Few Commercial Dough Mixers in the U.S. was very Good at my Job which is one reason in all my years I never got a day off,no Weekends,Holidays or Vacation and I worked up to sometimes 18 hours a day.But I was paid Well.

big rockpile

JeffreyD · #25 02/17/12, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMartianChick

My husband programs manufacturing robots for a local company. Nearly 20years ago, they sent him to school to ABB in Colorado to learn to do it. Since that time, he has learned to program/repair other brands. Way back then, the training was extremely expensive and cost about the same amount as one year's salary for two managers. In other words, the company knew that the payoff would be huge!

There has long been a push for lean manufacturing and it does require fewer folks to make products today than it used to. There is an article that I saw awhile back about a wire basket company in Baltimore that has become automated. Let me see if I can find it because it has a lot of good figures.

Edited to add: It took awhile, but I found it! The article is in pdf format but it was originally on msnbc.

http://www.marlinwire.com/docs/facto...-msnbc.com.pdf

Speaking as a black belt, lean has some serious shortcommings. Part of quality control includes risk management for every department, including purchasing. Lean fails if any one link in the supply chain breaks and if that happens(and it does) multiple facilities go down!

While I have an ms in electronic eng., I have a bs in automated mfg cause I could see the future of robotics. I built my first autonomius robot over 30 years ago, it just roamed around the house and scared the dogs! One thing it did do was when it was running low on battery power, it would find an outlet and plug itself in to charge the batteries. When fully charged or if it sensed something out of the ordinary, it would disconnect and proceed with it's mission!(mostly to scare the dogs!!) They NEVER get tired. They break down, but never get tired!

TheMartianChick · #26 02/18/12, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyD

Speaking as a black belt, lean has some serious shortcommings. Part of quality control includes risk management for every department, including purchasing. Lean fails if any one link in the supply chain breaks and if that happens(and it does) multiple facilities go down!

While I have an ms in electronic eng., I have a bs in automated mfg cause I could see the future of robotics. I built my first autonomius robot over 30 years ago, it just roamed around the house and scared the dogs! One thing it did do was when it was running low on battery power, it would find an outlet and plug itself in to charge the batteries. When fully charged or if it sensed something out of the ordinary, it would disconnect and proceed with it's mission!(mostly to scare the dogs!!) They NEVER get tired. They break down, but never get tired!

You built one yourself? Very cool! I need something like that to harrass the squirrels in my yard.

I've told hubby that he should build a robot to schlepp our bags through the airport when we travel. (We used to travel quite a bit and I was always running my wheeled suitcase into the back of my heel!) One time, I saw radio personality Tom Joyner in the Center City Philadelphia Wyndham Hotel. A member of his entourage had built a robotic platform that carried the majority of their bags. I thought it was pretty cool to see it zip around the lobby. It was more along the lines of a remote controlled car rather than having any true autonomy. I remember seeing a remote control.

Apparently, hubby wasn't taught to build the cool stuff like that (sigh). He mostly programs with something called a teach pendant.

haypoint · #27 02/18/12, 01:12 PM

If the jobs didn't go to China or Mexico, why did we suddenly get the 100 billion dollar trade imbalance with China and Mexico?

beowoulf90 · #28 02/20/12, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

IMO, robots do a whole lot more, than just simply replace expensive humans, in the workplace.

Robots can spray paint and spot weld, position tiny semi conductors - perfectly, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. No human could match this level of production and quality control, which product imperfections can kill profits, when they occur. Nearly everything need to be manufactured very precisely, any more. Robots also work in dirty, dangerous, hot/cold situations.

To have a human do, what a robot/automated process can do, just for the sake of a job, no longer makes business sense.

One backhoe and one dump truck, replaced very many men, using shovels and wheelborrows, to move dirt. That's the way it went.

It made no sense to go back.

Won't get an argument from me!

pancho · #29 02/20/12, 10:17 AM

I once worked in a factory that cleans, paints, forms, and cuts to length metal roofing.
Plant was 1/4 mile long and a full line held over 1/2 mile of roofing material.
Can't remember how many people worked there.
After automation one man could run the entire plant from his home.
This caused some trouble when that one man wanted a pay raise and the company didn't give him one. He shut down the plant. Told the company he would come to work and fix the problems when he got his raise. Took they about 3 days before they gave him his raise.