victimless crime

Yvonne's hubby · #81 12/27/11, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wags

If the crimes listed in the OP are truly victimless then the taxpayers wouldn't have to clean up the mess left behind.

Which crimes listed in the op is it that you think leaves messes for taxpayers to clean up? I think you will find that most "messes" could be cleaned up by those who make them, but meddlers being meddlers insist upon taking care of them with tax dollars.

Yvonne's hubby · #82 12/27/11, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperkid3

I've seen too much death and carnage resulting from booze, cars and
the idiots who combine them both, on the public roadway.

Ever notice how the death and carnage caused by sober idiots is so much neater and easier to clean up? Also notice the family members all feel sooooooo much better at the funeral because the soccer mom that ran over little Suzie and killed her hadnt been drinking....
swatting at the kid in the backseat makes it so much easier on the family.

mnn2501 · #83 12/27/11, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

. Basically laws with the sole intent of protecting me from me. Thats just plain ol meddlin. no victim... no crime... how say ye?

I say a few of those are protecting me from you.

tinknal · #84 12/27/11, 08:56 AM

YH, you have taken what could have been a very interesting thread and ruined it with your stubborn insistence in defending one flawed point.

Yvonne's hubby · #85 12/27/11, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

YH, you have taken what could have been a very interesting thread and ruined it with your stubborn insistence in defending one flawed point.

Perhaps, but the actual stats on that one point seem to reflect my opinion much closer than the "popular" point of view so often touted by the majority. I too would like to have seen a well rounded discussion of the other so called crimes when I started this thread... but the public at large opted to take it this direction.

Yvonne's hubby · #86 12/27/11, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnn2501

I say a few of those are protecting me from you.

Setting DUI aside.... which others do you believe protect you from me? In what way would you feel threatened by gambling? or prostitution? or the use of controlled substances? How does someone not wearing a seatbelt or helmet interfere with your life?

tinknal · #87 12/27/11, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

... but the public at large opted to take it this direction.

You could have agreed to disagree and then moved on. Of course everyone else could have too but that is beside the point.

Yvonne's hubby · #88 12/27/11, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

You could have agreed to disagree and then moved on. Of course everyone else could have too but that is beside the point.

Ok, point taken, I will be more than happy to pull the DUI out of the OP and see where things go from there.

DanielY · #89 12/27/11, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacy

We have way too many laws, period, growing out of laws that have grown out of other laws.

And now we are hearing that we need to do something about "distracted" drivingWhere will it end?

Actually there are already laws against distracted driving. It is called inattentive operation of a vehicle. The problem is that it is only inforcable after the fact. that means you can be found at fault for an accident if you are found to have been inattentive. This does not do a thing to prevent an accident. A police officer cannot pull you over because he say you leaning over to pick something up off the floor board.

If you think that DUI is a victimless crime then I invite you to visit the grave of my 2 year old nephew and explain your reasoning to him. Degenerates.

Anyway. Here is how I have seen things like seat belt laws really work. and the public is flat our being lied to on an almost perfect basis.

10 passengers in a van that blows a tire and rolls 150 feet down a mountain side. 5 wearing set belts 5 not. one seat belt breaks during the accident.

Of 5 people not wearing a seat belt all walk away from the accident with scrapes and bruises. They had all been thrown out but where basically unhurt. OF the 5 that where wearing seat belts they all remained in the vehicle. The one who had his seat belt break walked away unhurt although had the seat belt not broken he woudl have unquestionably been the only fatality. The remaining 4 all suffered serious injuries that ranged from broken backs, broken arms or legs and serious head injuries. They all had to be carried off the mountain. No fatalities.

Second case. A child is restrained it it's care seat as required by law. the vehicle is involved in a high speed head on collision. the child is held int eh only position that would result in the rear view mirror hitting him in the head causing permanent brain damage. He was positioning the center back of the vehicle. Considered the safest location on the car by law maker. had he been even a few inches right or left of center and he woudl have been unharmed. so what do law makers know.

Final and most recent case. An elderly woman suffers a stroke while traveling on a street with a 25 mile per hour speed limit. losses control and rear ends my heavy 1979 Lincoln continental parked at the curb. The impact does nearly no damage to my vehicle and does not damage her car beyond the grill being pushed into the radiator. Not a huge injury producing impact. It was enough to deploy her air bag though. as a result of the air bag she suffered a sever laceration to her head. a broken nose. possibly a broken jaw and a broken right arm. She is now permanently disabled due to a reaction she had to Anastasia while undergoing surgery for some of the damage her air bag did to her. In other words this woman was nearly killed as a result of her air bag. Not the stoke not the collision. But by the devise that was by law installed in her car to protect her from injury in an accident.

I don't know about you all but if someone is going to insist on making the decisions concerning my safety. they better be really good at it. And I mean perfectly good at it. I consider all of these people victims of the law.

pancho · #90 12/27/11, 09:46 AM

On the local news yesterday.
110 accidents over the Christmas holiday, 5 alcohol related.

pancho · #91 12/27/11, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielY

Actually there are already laws against distracted driving. It is called inattentive operation of a vehicle. The problem is that it is only inforcable after the fact. that means you can be found at fault for an accident if you are found to have been inattentive. This does not do a thing to prevent an accident. A police officer cannot pull you over because he say you leaning over to pick something up off the floor board.

Where I live they can and do pull you over for leaning over to pick up something in the floor board. They will even do it if you pick up something in the seat.
It happens regulary after 5pm on wednesday thru saturday night.
Even talking on a cell phone will get you pulled over.
Careless driving.

tinknal · #92 12/27/11, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pancho

Where I live they can and do pull you over for leaning over to pick up something in the floor board. They will even do it if you pick up something in the seat.
It happens regulary after 5pm on wednesday thru saturday night.
Even talking on a cell phone will get you pulled over.
Careless driving.

I have a problem with this too. The police would like to have probable cause to pull anyone over at any time for any reason. They are getting dangerously close to this now.

Yvonne's hubby · #93 12/27/11, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

I have a problem with this too. The police would like to have probable cause to pull anyone over at any time for any reason. They are getting dangerously close to this now.

In my area the police routinely set up road blocks... and stop virtually everyone... no probable cause seems to be required at all. They normally check your license and registration and look around inside your car through the windows. I presume they must be looking for an escaped convict hiding under one of my seats?

Yvonne's hubby · #94 12/27/11, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielY

I don't know about you all but if someone is going to insist on making the decisions concerning my safety. they better be really good at it. And I mean perfectly good at it. I consider all of these people victims of the law.

Yeppers, and we all know just how good the gooberment is at every thing they do.

tinknal · #95 12/27/11, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliaAnn

Many times the taxpayer pays for these victimless crimes, such as hospital bills for those who ride without helmets and bash half their brains out on the highway. Taxpayer gets to foot the county/state taxes that go to hospitals/hospital districts, EMS services, etc. Ditto with nonproductive lifestyle, prostitution, etc.

So in the larger sense, if you are speaking about who is impacted by what on the surface appear to be victimless crimes, the people who foot the bill via taxes are the victims. Why should my hard earned tax dollars go to pay for lifelong healthcare for someone who freely chose to not wear a helmet when riding his motorcycle and has some sort of disabling, traumatic brain injury? How fair is that to me, especially when I don't use county hospital services?

Do you wear a helmet while driving or riding in a car, bus, train, etc? Many people incur brain injuries while riding in these conveyances. How about walking? Most pedestrian v motor vehicle accidents involve brain injuries.

beowoulf90 · #96 12/27/11, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Do you wear a helmet while driving or riding in a car, bus, train, etc? Many people incur brain injuries while riding in these conveyances. How about walking? Most pedestrian v motor vehicle accidents involve brain injuries.

Don't forget all the accidents that happen in the shower. It seems that the elderly or the young are prone to fall in the shower and hit their heads causing brain injuries.. Maybe all the "holier than thou's" should lobby the Government and require everyone in the shower to wear a helmet... (Just a side note, this could be cumbersome if there is 2 or more in the shower

)

It's amazing that a supposedly self reliance board has so many that would easily abdicate their responsibility to the Government or others...

But it does tells me who the enemy will be next time there is a war between this entitlement mentality and the Government and those who want the government out of our lives as much as possible, ie those who think the Government should be held to the Constitution.

Ann-NWIowa · #97 12/27/11, 01:55 PM

If your 31 yo son and 3 week old grandson are the ones killed by a drunk driver I doubt you'd be convinced it shouldn't be illegal. Actually, there were 5 people killed in that accident including the drunk driver. I used to work for a county prosecutor and I can tell you that drunk drivers are dangerous to themselves and potentially anyone on the road with them. Each time I had to type an information on a drunk driver I was totally amazed at how stupid they were and when I thought I'd heard it all there was an even dumber drunk driver story.

tinknal · #98 12/27/11, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-NWIowa

If your 31 yo son and 3 week old grandson are the ones killed by a drunk driver I doubt you'd be convinced it shouldn't be illegal. Actually, there were 5 people killed in that accident including the drunk driver. I used to work for a county prosecutor and I can tell you that drunk drivers are dangerous to themselves and potentially anyone on the road with them. Each time I had to type an information on a drunk driver I was totally amazed at how stupid they were and when I thought I'd heard it all there was an even dumber drunk driver story.

The OP has agreed to disagree on this topic and move on. I'm sorry for your loss but can we please drop it now?

Yvonne's hubby · #99 12/27/11, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowoulf90

Don't forget all the accidents that happen in the shower. It seems that the elderly or the young are prone to fall in the shower and hit their heads causing brain injuries.. Maybe all the "holier than thou's" should lobby the Government and require everyone in the shower to wear a helmet... (Just a side note, this could be cumbersome if there is 2 or more in the shower

)

It's amazing that a supposedly self reliance board has so many that would easily abdicate their responsibility to the Government or others...

But it does tells me who the enemy will be next time there is a war between this entitlement mentality and the Government and those who want the government out of our lives as much as possible, ie those who think the Government should be held to the Constitution.

Showering is a dangerous game at best.... but using the buddy system can have its merits, thats why I built ours a bit extra large.

I am also fortunate enough to not have building codes and permits so could build it to suit myself. I have heard in some places the government insists that nearly every aspect of building has to meet "their" specifications.

Yvonne's hubby · #**100** 12/27/11, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Do you wear a helmet while driving or riding in a car, bus, train, etc? Many people incur brain injuries while riding in these conveyances. How about walking? Most pedestrian v motor vehicle accidents involve brain injuries.

dont givem any ideas... some meddler will be demanding we wear helmets while swimming next thing ya know.