victimless crime

Yes, you are to blame. You caused the accident by pulling in front of the other man. By law you are supposed to wait to start your turn until you can safely do so. If you would have looked in the morror you could have seen the man coming.

When I am making a left turn against oncoming traffic, the last place I am gonna be looking is my left side rear view mirror. Sorry, it just isn't reasonable to say CM is at fault because she didn't anticipate someone making an illegal pass. The guy who was illegally passing, who also happened to be under the influence, is at fault.

__________________
It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with the simple pleasures and to be cheerful and have courage when things go wrong.
Laura Ingalls Wilder

They're both at fault, but the guy that hit her is more at fault. You are supposed to look behind you before turning left.

I may have missed it but was there a no passing zone there? Looked like a pretty straight road.
Just about any place you are at fault if there is an accident when you are turning, unless they hit you from behind.

A line of cars that most likely all had their BRAKE LIGHTS on should have given them a clue.

You look really foolish trying to defend drunk drivers

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

a simple "a double yellow line" would have sufficed for me. Our other driver was obviously in the wrong for attempting to pass. This however doesnt relieve you of your burden to make sure you could cross the other lane into your drive way safely.... again... as my grampa used to say the hiway to hades is strewn with the bodies of those who had the right of way. I am pretty sure that same hiway is paved with good intentions.

Now... just what does illegal passing have to do with how much a feller had, or didnt have to drink? I understand the bars close at 2 am so he would have had several hours to sober up by 7.... theoretically anyway.

Oh. and.... Whether or not you opt to accept your responsibility in this situation is entirely up to you. I am not responsible for your choices, nor am I here to place blame. You had the right of way... I agree... but you also had the option to look and make sure no one else was making a mistake before you attempted to cross the road. How about you tell us if you feel the least bit at fault?

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

look down.... thats a double yellow, nobody should have been passing... in either direction.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Look closely.... I put a disclaimer there... "based only on the facts presented". Since there was no evidence presented of the offending driver being drunk, only that he had come from a pub, and 5 hours or so had passed since the pubs closed.... some evidence of alcohol levels would need to be offered up dontcha think? For all we know the fella might have gone to his car at 11 oclock the night before, slept off a few beers and was on his way to work.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

This will be my last contribution to this thread for obvious reasons to do with repeatedly repeating my self.

To the original poster: I am extremely sorry this has turned into the chaotic cluster that it has. It was not my intention to hijack your thread.

Pancho: Go back and read the entire story. Take a look at the photo you can see in the link. Use the tool on that site to turn around and look across the street, down the street. Pay particular attention to the markings ON the street.

__________________
Nina's Grammy

because if he was sober he just MIGHT have thought about WHY everyone in front of him was coming to a stop on a RESIDENTIAL street.
maybe where you live, i have lived in places w/ no mandatory closing time and left clubs as the sun was coming up, fortunately at that time i was all about chasing tail & not drinking.

in the time it would take for a driver to check their side view & recheck their oncoming & get halfway into a turn to be hit, the drunk could & likely did change lanes & pass 2-3 or even more cars. you ASSUMED CM didn't check her sideview mirror.

no need to worry about hijacking the thread... it was designed to discuss victimless crimes of all types.... your experience with a driver who may have been drinking fits right into the theme in its own way.... and plenty of others jumped on the DUI segment as well for whatever reasons.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Yep, maybe.... but we dont know how much he had to drink the night before... you "presume" he was drunk.... Oh... and I checked before I made the statement about the pubs closing times.... in Michigan its state law requiring a last call 2 am. As long as we are being picky about details... I never said anything about rear view mirrors either.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

I apologize. I had to go back and look again. There was no passing lanes in both direstions.
Again I apologize.

If the crimes listed in the OP are truly victimless then the taxpayers wouldn't have to clean up the mess left behind.

__________________
Wags Ranch Nigerians


"The Constitution says to promote the general welfare, not to provide welfare!" ~ Lt. Col Allen West

Do you really want to head down this slippery slope?

Take this line of thinking to it's logical conclusion and we will have to outlaw food, sex, and any kind of transportation.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

Around here they use that one a lot. They will stop people for careless driving. If they can't find anything else to ticket or arrest you they will say this is just a warning. If, after you are stopped for supposedly careless driving, they can find anything else to ticket you for they will add careless driving to the pile.

It depends on your state. In Tennessee, careless driving is just a step below reckless driving, which results in you automatically losing your license. It's not something a cop decides just to add on. It's a serious ticket that's going to cause you a lot of trouble.

Small world! I used to be a paramedic in that area and responded to many calls in Livonia. Maybe I was there that day. Probably not, but who knows?

You've been defending them all since Post # 9, before this incident was mentioned.

Claiming "inattentive " people cause as many wrecks is meaningless since there are MILLIONS more sober people on the road than there are drunks

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Ironically, I was the victim; not once but twice involving DWI's and in a marked patrol car
each time!!! In the first instance, I'd just arrested someone & placed them in the rear seat of the unit,
then had a tow truck remove their vehicle and was enroute to the jail. Had just stopped at the first
stop light; preparing to turn left; waiting for the light to change, when we were slammed into,
from the rear. Before I had a chance to recover from the impact and call to it in, this idiot proceeded
to slam into us again!!! By this time, I was hot, and jumped out and ran back to prevent the
drunk from trying to ram us a third time.....fortunately he had his window down and I was able
to grab the keys out of the ignition.....although I desperately wished that I could have hauled
him out of the vehicle via his vent window. It's been 20+ yrs since that happened, but I still
have reoccurring migranes resulting from that whiplash.....

Another time, I was approaching an intersection and noticed a vehicle in front of me that seemed
to be unable to decide on whether the red light meant to go or whether green meant to stop.
As he tried to make up his mind, he suddenly decided that he was already too far into the intersection
and needed to put it into reverse so he could try again and began backing up.....towards and
eventually into, my patrol car!!! This happened despite my laying on the horn and attempting to
put the unit into reverse as well; he still managed to make impact and caused an accident.
Previously I'd had a reputation for finding DWI's and getting them off the street, but when this
happened, I became known as the DWI magnet.....and instead of getting an
'atta boy' for getting a couple of drunks off the road, was now criticized by my superiors for being
involved in a couple of accidents with city property!!! Like they say, no good deed goes unpunished
but don't even TRY telling me that DWI's are victimless crimes....
I've seen too much death and carnage resulting from booze, cars and
the idiots who combine them both, on the public roadway.

I have never "defended" anyone for DUI.... they dont need defended coz they have not committed a crime against anyone simply by "driving" under the influence. Thats why I believe its a "victimless crime". The stats that I have reviewed do indicate that on average, those drivers who have "had a few" tend to actually be safer than sober drivers. On average they drive slower, and are more attentive to their driving than are sober drivers. These stats hold particularly true with older drivers.... with youth... not so much. among teens they seem to be just about equal with their driving skills as the sober drivers in their age brackets. I am referring here to stats that consider the numbers of sober drivers to the numbers of those considered to be under the influence.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain